Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

For the record, since 2018, the leafs have had 20 forwards that aren't the core 4 play 5+ games and pace 35+ points. Dubas brought in 14 (#1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 19, 20 in P/GP), and a lot of them were also above average defensive players/PKers. Treliving has brought in 2 (#10, 11 in P/GP), and both were horrific defensively and didn't PK.

First of all I don't care about "pace" I care about what they actually did.

Get out of here with "pace" because that's COMPLETELY irrelevant.

The reality is the ONLY support pieces he brought in that mattered were Ryan O'Reilly and Noel Acciari and McCabe on defense but this is specifically about up front.

The reason why those were the only support pieces that mattered is because they are the only ones that helped them win a round.

The rest are completely irrelevant because they couldn't even do that.

And let's be honest winning 1 round in 5 years isn't good enough.

Maybe if he had picked up a Blake Coleman, Charlie Coyle, Barclay Goodrow, Marcus Johansson, Tyler Toffoli, or anybody really things could have been different.

But no he was to focused on Denis Malgain for Mason Marchment.

Or picking up Nick Petan.

Or trading Trevor Moore for Jack Campbell who admittedly had a hell of a November and last time I checked was in the AHL.

Or trading Conor Brown for Cody Ceci

Or Andreas Johnsson who had scored 20 goals for Joey Anderson, Granted Anderson was in the McCabe trade, but that doesn't make this one any good, especially when you know because It's been confirmed that he turned down Dermott, and Johnsson for Weegar.

and let's not forget the big one.

The Kadri trade oh boy did that fail and it didn't just fail it failed SPECTACULARLY, it failed to a shocking degree.

Face reality he gutted this team of It's depth.

Brad is rebuilding the depth.

I don't know how this season ends but I know that Brad as acomplished as much in less than 2 years as Dubas did in 5.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Not sure what this has to do with accountability/trust/respect anyway.

Specifically “accountability.” Keefe gives the team too much praise for one round win. Berube tempers the mood and reminds them they haven’t really accomplished anything.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Specifically “accountability.” Keefe gives the team too much praise for one round win. Berube tempers the mood and reminds them they haven’t really accomplished anything.

That's not really accountability, and Berube literally said they "got it done" and was praising them. That doesn't sound like accomplishing nothing. Nothing about Keefe's comments were "too much praise". You're looking way too much into it, to see what you want to see.

Both gave praise while reminding them that there's work ahead. It's okay to celebrate the victories along the way. Every cup winner does.

 

[Dekes For Days]

First of all I don't care about "pace" I care about what they actually did.

Well that kind of skews everything with the two covid shortened seasons, and eliminates any deadline additions, but since 2018, the leafs have had a non-core forward get 30+ points 22 times. Dubas was responsible for 15 times (#1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 10, 11, 13, 14, 16, 17, 18, 20, 21, 22 in points). Treliving was responsible for 3 times (#5, 9, 19).

The reality is the ONLY support pieces he brought in that mattered were Ryan O'Reilly and Noel Acciari and McCabe on defense but this is specifically about up front. The reason why those were the only support pieces that mattered is because they are the only ones that helped them win a round.

 

[sunstersun]

The 2nd Boston one where we added Muzzin and JT and lost really sucked.

The most recent one was also a low...like that was the worst version of Boston we faced and couldn't score. Montreal and CBJ also sucked. I am not lying when I say that Habs playoff series probably took like 1.5 years to really get over.

I'm never over that series. We win, it's a straight shot to the Stanley Cup Finals man.

 

[NinjaKick]

For the 1-2 Dubas fans left here and probably members of that team/management, their championship was that first round against Tampa. Probably were shotgunning Bud Lights like them too.

That year they got 5/16 wins needed to win the Cup…

Not even close and if the Leafs happen to lose the next four (unlikely as it may be) we’ll be saying the same thing about Tre’s team.

"guys whats my projected sex appeal rating on hfboards"

 

[notbias]

I think there very much is. Take a look at how Keefe was speaking when we beat Tampa in 2023.



“This group has been through a lot of stuff to get to this point here” when this point is 4/16 wins, 1/4 rounds needed to win to hoist Lord Stanley is putting too much gravitas on the accomplishment. Yes it was OT and yes it was the first time in 19 years but winning one round was and is not the end all be all.

Ending his speech with “the best is yet to come” is a bit presumptive. Seems to be taking for granted just how much harder things would (and did) get. Plus look at how amped up the boys are acting. Again, it’s one round. Like Giordano said in his OverDrive interview it was probably too much of a feeling of relief.

Then you look at the reaction to when we beat Ottawa.



“That’s one round, we’re moving on now.” Berube rightly plays down the accomplishment and immediately wants to shift focus to round 2 which will be against a better, more hardened opponent. He praises the boys but emphasizes the battle and how things will continue to be difficult going forward.

The boys in the room are also much more subdued. Granted it wasn’t OT but the feel is much less that of exuberance.

You're looking into this far too much.

This board hangs onto every word players/coaches say, it is crazy.

God forbid players are happy after getting out of the first round, it was likely a huge relief because of the narrative around the team.

It's not that serious...

 

[notbias]

The reality is the ONLY support pieces he brought in that mattered were Ryan O'Reilly and Noel Acciari and McCabe on defense but this is specifically about up front.

Our depth isn't doing much, just FYI...

I like some of the pieces, but the reason they are in the second round is not because of depth forwards.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Our depth isn't doing much, just FYI...

I like some of the pieces, but the reason they are in the second round is not because of depth forwards.

They aren't doing the majority of the scoring but They providing legitimate support.

Domi scored an OT winner and set up the series winner in round 1.

Benoit set up Domi's OT winner and then scored the OT winner the next game.

Scott Laughton had the series winning block.

Patches had 2 points in game 6 including the series winner against Ottawa, and then had 2 assists i n game 1 against Florida

I'm not saying the core isn't doing It's job it certainly is.

But It's also getting support from the depth, something they never got outside of 2023 because prior to 2023 when his job was on the line Dubas NEVER brought in legitimate it support pieces he just didn't.

There was Ryan O'Reilly, Noel Acciari, and you can make an argument for Bunting but by the time he left he was hurting the team more then helping.

I liked him but there were 2 Buntings, there was good Bunting and bad Bunting and by the time he left we were getting WAY more of bad Bunting.

 

[Mess]

Our depth isn't doing much, just FYI...

I like some of the pieces, but the reason they are in the second round is not because of depth forwards.

Perhaps you missed the games.

Domi scored in OT #3 and Max Pacioretty scored the series winner in game #6, while 3rd pairing Dman Simon Benoit scored the GWG in OT in game #2 in round #1.

&

Matthews Knies scored the GWG in game #1 of round #2,

The only game not decided by a depth player outside the core 4 was game #1 where Tavares scored the GWG in a 6-2 win.

 

[notbias]

Perhaps you missed the games.

Domi scored in OT #3 and Max Pacioretty scored the series winner in game #6, while 3rd pairing Dman Simon Benoit scored the GWG in OT in game #2 in round #1.

&

Matthews Knies scored the GWG in game #1 of round #2,

The only game not decided by a depth player outside the core 4 was game #1 where Tavares scored the GWG in a 6-2 win.

Perhaps you missed my other post or are just not willing to admit you were wrong for 5 years.

Why did you stop complaining about so much cap being tied up in 4 forwards and how they can never win with that combination of players?

They aren't doing the majority of the scoring but They providing legitimate support.

The bottom 6 has 8 points.

Not a single line is a positive in goal differential outside the top 6.

Domi scored an OT winner and set up the series winner in round 1.

Awesome, he's been good in spots.

Benoit set up Domi's OT winner and then scored the OT winner the next game.

Benoit is not a forward.

Scott Laughton had the series winning block.

They didn't win the series because of that block, but cool.

Patches had 2 points in game 6 including the series winner against Ottawa, and then had 2 assists i n game 1 against Florida

Once put with the star players, yes.

I'm not saying the core isn't doing It's job it certainly is.

But It's also getting support from the depth, something they never got outside of 2023 because prior to 2023 when his job was on the line Dubas NEVER brought in legitimate it support pieces he just didn't.

It is not though, that's the thing.

The biggest difference is that every player from the core has been able to put up points, it is 2/4 like in most series.

There was Ryan O'Reilly, Noel Acciari, and you can make an argument for Bunting but by the time he left he was hurting the team more then helping.

I liked him but there were 2 Buntings, there was good Bunting and bad Bunting and by the time he left we were getting WAY more of bad Bunting.

I'm not saying which depth is better, I am just saying the depth is not contributing much, like most years.

The difference has been the star players putting up points and not getting scored on.

 

[Gabriel426]

When I said he always had the core 4 did you not realize JT was part of the core 4?

Spezza was not a legitimate support piece, neither were Foligno, Malgin honestly you shouldn't have even mentioned Malgin, Gally Kerfoot or Soup.

Levio, Moore and also were not legitimate support pieces, Moore would become one but not in Toronto.

Engvall wasn't one either, he could have been but he never used his size..

He gave away Brown, and Kadri, and Kap and AJ.

The only guy you mentioned that you could make an argument for Bunting and even that didn't last as he would become a detriment to the team by the end of his tenure.

If you are using Max as a good supporting piece then you can’t discount Spezza esp his first season.

Dubas got more depth forwards than Tre’s Leafs, the difference is really Knies. As he is an impact player beside the Big 4. Someone who Dubas didn’t have as GM.

McMann is at the level as Soup and Engvall, diff is that he is more physical and not as fast as Soup.
You can’t tell me that Moore as a Leafs was not as good or better than Holmberg.

The diff between Dubas and Tre Leafs is the way they want the Leafs to play. Dubas wants his team to play like the Avs but just can’t get players to truly excel in that style. Tre wants more like Vegas and Panthers while getting players that fit that style.

 

[Dreakmur]

If you are using Max as a good supporting piece then you can’t discount Spezza esp his first season.

Dubas got more depth forwards than Tre’s Leafs, the difference is really Knies. As he is an impact player beside the Big 4. Someone who Dubas didn’t have as GM.

McMann is at the level as Soup and Engvall, diff is that he is more physical and not as fast as Soup.
You can’t tell me that Moore as a Leafs was not as good or better than Holmberg.

Dubas was good at acquiring quality players, but couldn’t build a team. So while the forward depth was better on paper, the team wasn’t more successful.

The diff between Dubas and Tre Leafs is the way they want the Leafs to play. Dubas wants his team to play like the Avs but just can’t get players to truly excel in that style. Tre wants more like Vegas and Panthers while getting players that fit that style.

The biggest difference is that Treliving tries to fill roles with players who excel in them and not just acquire random good players and leave roles unplayed.

Goalies. Defensively sound defenders. Forwards who play aggressively.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

There's really no difference. Both coaches congratulated the team and acknowledged the work put in to get to that point, while noting that that was just the first step and there was more to come. The players similarly celebrated both times, while also acknowledging the hard work ahead.

You're just putting emphasis on different words and quotes for each, and attaching your own meaning to a lot of it. Berube - "We battled and competed and we got it done". Done? Done?? We're not done! It's only 4/16 wins, right? You telling me you wouldn't be blasting Keefe for that? It's all about the lens you're looking at these quotes through.

I don't know where this silly idea that we can't enjoy victories along the way came from anyway. Go watch cup winners winning their prior series and then tell me that. It's normal to be pumped, and if we were a bit more pumped last time, I don't know how one concludes that it's a result of coaching doing something wrong, instead of the difference of winning their first series, in OT, against the 3x Eastern Champions that beat them the previous year. There's nothing wrong with enjoying the victories along the way. This idea that it somehow hurt us is ridiculous, considering we dominated that game 1 outside of goaltending. Other teams literally go out partying and drinking, but oh no, we cared a lot and cheered 5 decibels louder after our win and that's why we lost days later... Come on... I don't know it's so hard for people to acknowledge the actual reason we lost.

Not sure what this has to do with accountability/trust/respect anyway.

It's pretty obvious that the respect in the handshake line/60 was much higher with Keefe than the Chief....

 

[Menzinger]

Too many folks let their dislike of a GM lead them to have ridiculous takes on certain players.

No need for sins of the father ect

 

[Gary Nylund]

The job Treliving has done is looking better and better with each passing day. Should merge this thread with the Tanev thread.

GLG!!

 

[conFABulator]

I'm open to considering other opinions and perspectives, but you've just pulled your opinion out of nothing, and there's zero evidence that your opinion is true. You're the one who refuses to budge off of your perspective and opinions in the face of actual facts. I don't know what your response had to do with my original post in the first place.

When was the last time we faced a green wild card team and 0.872 goaltending through our first seven playoff games?

We won the division in 2021. When was the last time we only needed 103 points to win the division?

When was the last time we got 0.949 goaltending (+9.78 GSAx) through our final 5 games?

We were actually 13-3-1. When was the last time we got 0.932 goaltending down the stretch?

And you've had a hard time accepting why those facts are facts, as well as all of the other facts about our team.

What makes you think I won't budge off of an opinion? I liked Dubas and Keefe, I am now open to seeing things with a different perspective. I still like them both and think Dubas has his fingerprints all over this team and that is true when we are winning also, I now see how a different approach from what Dubas was doing is seemingly pushing us to new levels.

As for your points...

We have never faced a WC / green team with suspect goaltending in R1. That's kind of the point, no? This team did something no previous team of this era had done before -- won an Atlantic division title. That's a different result, no?

2021? The shortened season where we played only Canadian teams? That's not a direct comparison and you should know that which makes you using it as a comparison disingenuine.

103 points? We set a goal to win the division and we achieved that goal. There is no asterisk for a year with greater parity.

I am going to guess we have never previously had those strong goaltending numbers down the stretch based on your question. Yes, we got great goaltending from a goalie and goalie tandem that was a strength all season. I am not sure how this is not evidence that we built a different team this year. No Samsonov , no Mrazek, no Campbell. You seem to be using the goaltending tandem that Treliving has assembled as a reason for not giving his team finishing 5-0. I don't get that.

Ok, 13-3-1...again, why are we discounting this team success because this team has very good goaltending that showed up the final quarter of the season basically.

Guess what, teams that win cups usually get very solid goaltending and have a goalie steal a game or two for them. I don't think I recall a Toronto goalie stealing a playoff game for us once in this era. I do recall a few weak goals against though.

Speaking of facts, is your position that this team is not all that different and/or better than what we had under Dubas?

Well, there are 13 guys that played more than five games for us in the 2023 playoffs that are not on this team now (14 if you include Kampf and someone not seeing the ice yet). That's 13. We have a new head coach and coaching staff. We accomplished more in the regular season and are off to our best playoff start of the era. We are now the biggest team in the league too. Is your position really that they are not that different or better?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Perhaps you missed the games.

Domi scored in OT #3 and Max Pacioretty scored the series winner in game #6, while 3rd pairing Dman Simon Benoit scored the GWG in OT in game #2 in round #1.

&

Matthews Knies scored the GWG in game #1 of round #2,

The only game not decided by a depth player outside the core 4 was game #1 where Tavares scored the GWG in a 6-2 win.

Domi scored the game 2 OT winner, Benoit scored the game 3 OT winner.

Otherwise you are correct

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

I think it’s safe to say after surpassing the low bar that is five playoff wins under Dubas/Keefe and scoring 4+ goals against Florida twice in two games when we couldn’t even manage three once in five games back in 2023 that Berube’s style is better than Keefe’s.

 

[Raging Bull]

He built a blueline meant for the playoffs.

 

[colchar]

Dubas was good at acquiring quality players, but couldn’t build a team.

But he had spreadsheets that said player X had an XGF%&#GDT&$ that was higher than anyone else's so he was obviously the better player.

Kyle Spreadsheet Dubious is a savant, and his continued performance in Pittsburgh proves how great a GM he is. Oh. Wait a minute.................

 

[colchar]

I think it’s safe to say after surpassing the low bar that is five playoff wins under Dubas/Keefe and scoring 4+ goals against Florida twice in two game when we couldn’t even manage three once in five games back in 2023 that Berube’s style is better than Keefe’s.

And Tre has built a better team than Kyle Dubious ever did.

 

[Peasy]

Already more playoff wins in a season than Dubas

Wonder what excuses for Dubas will be used now.

 

[Dreakmur]

But he had spreadsheets that said player X had an XGF%&#GDT&$ that was higher than anyone else's so he was obviously the better player.

Kyle Spreadsheet Dubious is a savant, and his continued performance in Pittsburgh proves how great a GM he is. Oh. Wait a minute.................

Data analysis is important, but only a portion of the job.

Dubas would have been an excellent assistant GM to a guy who understood the game.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Our depth isn't doing much, just FYI...

I like some of the pieces, but the reason they are in the second round is not because of depth forwards.

Patches with another 2 picks and Domi with another goal.a depth game

Tell me again about how the depth isn't doing much.

Because while Nylander and Marner did score this was a depth game