Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Didn’t Dubas signed and traded for JT, Spezza, Bunting, Foligno, Malgin, Gally, Kerfoot, Soup, while inherited Kadri, Brown, Hyman, Leivo, Moore, AJ, Engvall, and Kap. More than half of them scored 20 goals or more in a season for the Leafs.

When I said he always had the core 4 did you not realize JT was part of the core 4?

Spezza was not a legitimate support piece, neither were Foligno, Malgin honestly you shouldn't have even mentioned Malgin, Gally Kerfoot or Soup.

Levio, Moore and also were not legitimate support pieces, Moore would become one but not in Toronto.

Engvall wasn't one either, he could have been but he never used his size..

He gave away Brown, and Kadri, and Kap and AJ.

The only guy you mentioned that you could make an argument for Bunting and even that didn't last as he would become a detriment to the team by the end of his tenure.

 

[Antropovsky]

Didn’t Dubas signed and traded for JT, Spezza, Bunting, Foligno, Malgin, Gally, Kerfoot, Soup, while inherited Kadri, Brown, Hyman, Leivo, Moore, AJ, Engvall, and Kap. More than half of them scored 20 goals or more in a season for the Leafs.

Doesn't matter who the GM is... Leaf ownership is making them sign Tavares in 2019. Doesnt matter if the GM was someone different.. they would have signed JT in 2019.

Its ridiculous when posters suggest signing Tavares was dumb.

 

[colchar]

Powerhouse forwards?

Engvall, Jarnkrok, Kerfoot, Kampf, Spezza, Bunting, Kase,

I have no idea what Dubas was doing. I don't think he does either.

Leafs had Marner, Matthews, Nylander before he took over and Tavares was coming to Toronto regardless who was GM.

Year by year Dubas made the team worse, Andersen is still an NHL 1B goalie, Samsonov and Campbell fringe NHLers.

Bunting produced and everyone celebrated Dubas but look at him since leaving Matthews. Johnsson and Kapanen looked great and produced alot when they played with Matthews too.

Keefe is a bad coach.

Dubas a bad GM.

Who the hell hires a 32 year old GM with little hockey background and let's them hire a 39 year old coach who had just 7 years of CHL/AHL experience?

Just a masterclass of stupid by Shanahan.

Dubas is still way over his head, best parts of Pittsburgh are the parts he didn't touch. The rest hes just made a mess off. I'd be shocked if another gm has made anywhere near the amount of moves hes made in two years. Just a revolving door of him trying to uncover a hidden gem.

Maybe Spreadsheet Dubious will finally be exposed for the fraud he is over in Pittsburgh. I just feel bad for Sid because he deserves better.

 

[leafs in five]

spreadsheets bad, %xg figures from naturalstatrick good

 

[Dekes For Days]

What’s funny is pretending it’s normal for an NHL player to lose weight after being drafted. These guys don’t get to the league and think, “You know what would really help me out here? Being smaller.” The whole goal is to add size and strength, not drop it. Sure, anyone can fluctuate a few pounds but acting like it’s totally reasonable for a young defenseman to shrink in his first few years in the NHL kind of ignores how pro development actually works. Most of these guys in their first few years hit training camp heavier every season, not lighter. I'd love to see a citation for this 190 lb claim, care to provide one?

Let's review shall we:

Byrum gets to the combine at 18 years old at 195 lbs but then has to drop 5 pounds over the ensuing 4 years because he needed to "trim some fat and get conditioned for the NHL (that's some super slow fat trimming), he then decides that isn't working and gains 15 lbs in 2 years. Yeah that sounds totally believable!

You're being purposefully obtuse. Nobody said it took 4 years to drop the 5 pounds, and there could have been multiple possible causes, from losing some fat in NHL conditioning, to losing muscle mass through covid and multiple head injuries, to just normal fluctuations.

The fact that you think every prospect just starts bulking up (especially through career threatening head injuries) shows how disconnected you are. 190 pounds is not an abnormal playing weight for a player like Byram, who would value things like speed and agility for his playstyle, especially on Colorado. Buffalo may have a different outlook, or maybe Byram gained a different outlook with experience, or maybe he just finally had a chance to focus on gains instead of concussions.

From his signing announcement in 2023:

Avalanche Re-Signs Bowen Byram | Colorado Avalanche

Defenseman Inks Two-Year Deal

www.nhl.com

The Colorado Avalanche Hockey Club announced today that the team has signed defenseman Bowen Byram to a two-year contract through the 2024-25 season.
Byram, 22, recorded 24 points (10g/14a) in 42 outings with the Avalanche this past season, ranking second among Colorado defenseman in goals. He became the third blueliner in franchise history to score 10+ goals in a season at age 21 or younger, joining Jeff Brown in 1987-88 and Cale Makar in 2019-20. The 6-foot-1, 190-pound blueliner appeared in all seven of the Avs' first-round games against Seattle in the Stanley Cup Playoffs, notching three points (0g/3a).

From his conditioning loan in 2022 right before the playoffs:

Defenseman Bowen Byram Assigned to Eagles on Conditioning Loan | Colorado Eagles

www.coloradoeagles.com

The Colorado Eagles, proud AHL affiliate of the Colorado Avalanche, have announced that defenseman Bowen Byram has been assigned to the Eagles by the team’s NHL affiliate on a conditioning loan. Byram was selected by Colorado with the fourth overall pick in the 2019 NHL Entry Draft and has notched five goals and eight assists in 37 career games with the Avalanche. Prior to turning pro, the 6-foot-1, 190-pound blueliner generated 46 goals and 104 assists in 188 games with the WHL’s Vancouver Giants. He would also help lead Team Canada to a Gold Medal at the 2020 World Junior Championships and a Silver Medal in 2021.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The previous style didn't get us anywhere.

Yes it did. Some people just don't understand anything beyond what round a team got to. Ironically, our biggest struggles in the playoffs came while shifting away from our style to something closer to our current style.

Last time vs FLA, our D featured Holl, Gio, Brodie, Schenn, and Lily. That's bad.

Actually, last time against Florida, it was Rielly, McCabe, Brodie, Giordano, Schenn, and Holl/Liljegren. That's not bad, and I'm not sure why you're focused specifically on that point in time.

That's not bad

Not re-signing your best players is bad.

 

[thewave]

Yes it did. Some people just don't understand anything beyond what round a team got to.

Actually, last time against Florida, it was Rielly, McCabe, Brodie, Giordano, Schenn, and Holl/Liljegren. That's not bad, and I'm not sure why you're focused specifically on that point in time.

Not re-signing your best players is bad.

Dekes.

Dubas was an abject failure. His coach was also an abject failure. They never met expectations once.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Dubas was an abject failure. His coach was also an abject failure.

Neither were a failure. Some just can't understand anything beyond playoff outcome good = everything good, playoff outcome bad = everything bad.

 

[thewave]

Neither were a failure. Some just can't understand anything beyond playoff outcome good = everything good, playoff outcome bad = everything bad.

The point of playing hockey is to win the championship.

 

[Bomber0104]

The point of playing hockey is to win the championship.

For the 1-2 Dubas fans left here and probably members of that team/management, their championship was that first round against Tampa. Probably were shotgunning Bud Lights like them too.

That year they got 5/16 wins needed to win the Cup…

Not even close and if the Leafs happen to lose the next four (unlikely as it may be) we’ll be saying the same thing about Tre’s team.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The point of playing hockey is to win the championship.

That doesn't make the round you got to, without context, a good measure of the performance of everything associated with a team. That's just lazy.

 

[IPS]

Neither were a failure. Some just can't understand anything beyond playoff outcome good = everything good, playoff outcome bad = everything bad.

Boy you really do fit in well with Dubas' participation trophy culture.

 

[conFABulator]

He has a different style, but that style is not better. There is no difference in accountability/trust/respect.

We haven't seen those exact players (except McCabe), but we've had players that were just as good or better.

Stolarz had a better regular season than we've gotten before (though in only 34 GP), but he has had a worse playoffs than past goalies.

No he doesn't. We had multiple rentals last year, and multiple deadline additions both years.

That's not good. That's bad.

Wow, you really are not open to considering other perspectives and opinions, are you?

You replied to an opinion-based post with responses that all sound like fact, but most of my points were subjective in nature. I say "it SEEMS like Chief has earned more respect and accountability" and you say "there IS NO more accountability or respect". How can you say that with such certainty? What is the advanced stat that measures respect? Accountability?

At some point, you may want to listen to what people are saying and look at the results. As for results...

When was the last time the Leafs won 5 of the first seven playoff games?

When was the last time they won the division in full, regular season?

When was the last time they went 5-0 to closeout the season with division title on the line?

When was the last time they went 13-2-2 down the final stretch?

...those are all facts.

 

[ToneDog]

Boy you really do fit in well with Dubas' participation trophy culture.

Some Dubas fanboys just don't know when to take a knee or tap out.

 

[Dekes For Days]

He always had the core 4, but from the time he was hired until his last year in 2023 when he FINALLY made the Ryan O'Reilly trade he never got them a legitimate support piece.

For the record, since 2018, the leafs have had 20 forwards that aren't the core 4 play 5+ games and pace 35+ points. Dubas brought in 14 (#1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 19, 20 in P/GP), and a lot of them were also above average defensive players/PKers. Treliving has brought in 2 (#10, 11 in P/GP), and both were horrific defensively and didn't PK.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Wow, you really are not open to considering other perspectives and opinions, are you?
You replied to an opinion-based post with responses that all sound like fact, but most of my points were subjective in nature.

I'm open to considering other opinions and perspectives, but you've just pulled your opinion out of nothing, and there's zero evidence that your opinion is true. You're the one who refuses to budge off of your perspective and opinions in the face of actual facts. I don't know what your response had to do with my original post in the first place.

When was the last time the Leafs won 5 of the first seven playoff games?I

When was the last time we faced a green wild card team and 0.872 goaltending through our first seven playoff games?

When was the last time they won the division in full, regular season?

We won the division in 2021. When was the last time we only needed 103 points to win the division?

When was the last time they went 5-0 to closeout the season with division title on the line?

When was the last time we got 0.949 goaltending (+9.78 GSAx) through our final 5 games?

When was the last time they went 13-2-2 down the final stretch?

We were actually 13-3-1. When was the last time we got 0.932 goaltending down the stretch?

...those are all facts.

And you've had a hard time accepting why those facts are facts, as well as all of the other facts about our team.

 

[Dreakmur]

For the record, since 2018, the leafs have had 20 forwards that aren't the core 4 play 5+ games and pace 35+ points. Dubas brought in 14 (#1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 19, 20 in P/GP), and a lot of them were also above average defensive players/PKers. Treliving has brought in 2 (#10, 11 in P/GP), and both were horrific defensively and didn't PK.

And yet Dubas’ teams always choked when it mattered most. It’s almost like building your team with nothing but a spreadsheet is a bad idea….

 

[All Mod Cons]

Brad Treliving will attempt to pass the extremely high benchmark of 5 playoff wins in a single season tonight, set by the great Kyle Dubas.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

He has a different style, but that style is not better. There is no difference in accountability/trust/respect.

I think there very much is. Take a look at how Keefe was speaking when we beat Tampa in 2023.



“This group has been through a lot of stuff to get to this point here” when this point is 4/16 wins, 1/4 rounds needed to win to hoist Lord Stanley is putting too much gravitas on the accomplishment. Yes it was OT and yes it was the first time in 19 years but winning one round was and is not the end all be all.

Ending his speech with “the best is yet to come” is a bit presumptive. Seems to be taking for granted just how much harder things would (and did) get. Plus look at how amped up the boys are acting. Again, it’s one round. Like Giordano said in his OverDrive interview it was probably too much of a feeling of relief.

Then you look at the reaction to when we beat Ottawa.



“That’s one round, we’re moving on now.” Berube rightly plays down the accomplishment and immediately wants to shift focus to round 2 which will be against a better, more hardened opponent. He praises the boys but emphasizes the battle and how things will continue to be difficult going forward.

The boys in the room are also much more subdued. Granted it wasn’t OT but the feel is much less that of exuberance.

 

[Mess]

Some Dubas fanboys just don't know when to take a knee or tap out.

GM Treliving seems to be giving them a good schooling on how to build a hockey team, and that will raise their level of hockey understanding in the process.

For some of us a Clueless Dubas was easy to spot from day #1 on the job for him.

Leafs next win will set a new mark for most wins in a playoff season by a Maple Leafs team in a Salary Cap Era dating back to 2005,

Outgrowing from being tortured by SOO OHL level management for diehard Leaf fans that witnessed 5 miserable wasted years can now sit back and relax knowing we have a REAL NHL GM and coach in charge.

 

[notbias]

GM Treliving seems to be giving them a good schooling on how to build a hockey team, and that will raise their level of hockey understanding in the process.

For some of us a Clueless Dubas was easy to spot from day #1 on the job for him.

Leafs next win will set a new mark for most wins in a playoff season by a Maple Leafs team in a Salary Cap Era dating back to 2005,

Outgrowing from being tortured by SOO OHL level management for diehard Leaf fans that witnessed 5 miserable wasted years can now sit back and relax knowing we have a REAL NHL GM and coach in charge.

You spent like 5 years non-stop saying you can't win with 4 players making as much as our players do.

Why did you stop posting that?

 

[WTFMAN99]

So I thought about this.

Washington was fun
Boston L1 (Matthews era) - felt like we weren't ready yet

Those were low expectation years...

After that...I had pessimism...like I thought we were supposed to be competing but not confidence we could win a cup with the holes in the roster.

In terms of this year's version, I thought Tree overhauled the defense very well, added goaltending depth and overall I feel like we have a chance. It's not "omg we're cup favourites" but it is closer to "why not us?"

 

[sunstersun]

So I thought about this.

Washington was fun
Boston L1 (Matthews era) - felt like we weren't ready yet

Those were low expectation years...

After that...I had pessimism...like I thought we were supposed to be competing but not confidence we could win a cup with the holes in the roster.

In terms of this year's version, I thought Tree overhauled the defense very well, added goaltending depth and overall I feel like we have a chance. It's not "omg we're cup favourites" but it is closer to "why not us?"

The year we lost to Boston in game 7 again felt pretty bad. Then CBJ loss felt miserable. Then we topped it with the Habs.

 

[WTFMAN99]

The year we lost to Boston in game 7 again felt pretty bad. Then CBJ loss felt miserable. Then we topped it with the Habs.

The 2nd Boston one where we added Muzzin and JT and lost really sucked.

The most recent one was also a low...like that was the worst version of Boston we faced and couldn't score. Montreal and CBJ also sucked. I am not lying when I say that Habs playoff series probably took like 1.5 years to really get over.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I think there very much is. Take a look at how Keefe was speaking when we beat Tampa in 2023.



“This group has been through a lot of stuff to get to this point here” when this point is 4/16 wins, 1/4 rounds needed to win to hoist Lord Stanley is putting too much gravitas on the accomplishment. Yes it was OT and yes it was the first time in 19 years but winning one round was and is not the end all be all.

Ending his speech with “the best is yet to come” is a bit presumptive. Seems to be taking for granted just how much harder things would (and did) get. Plus look at how amped up the boys are acting. Again, it’s one round. Like Giordano said in his OverDrive interview it was probably too much of a feeling of relief.

Then you look at the reaction to when we beat Ottawa.



“That’s one round, we’re moving on now.” Berube rightly plays down the accomplishment and immediately wants to shift focus to round 2 which will be against a better, more hardened opponent. He praises the boys but emphasizes the battle and how things will continue to be difficult going forward.

The boys in the room are also much more subdued. Granted it wasn’t OT but the feel is much less that of exuberance.

There's really no difference. Both coaches congratulated the team and acknowledged the work put in to get to that point, while noting that that was just the first step and there was more to come. The players similarly celebrated both times, while also acknowledging the hard work ahead.

You're just putting emphasis on different words and quotes for each, and attaching your own meaning to a lot of it. Berube - "We battled and competed and we got it done". Done? Done?? We're not done! It's only 4/16 wins, right? You telling me you wouldn't be blasting Keefe for that? It's all about the lens you're looking at these quotes through.

I don't know where this silly idea that we can't enjoy victories along the way came from anyway. Go watch cup winners winning their prior series and then tell me that. It's normal to be pumped, and if we were a bit more pumped last time, I don't know how one concludes that it's a result of coaching doing something wrong, instead of the difference of winning their first series, in OT, against the 3x Eastern Champions that beat them the previous year. There's nothing wrong with enjoying the victories along the way. This idea that it somehow hurt us is ridiculous, considering we dominated that game 1 outside of goaltending. Other teams literally go out partying and drinking, but oh no, we cared a lot and cheered 5 decibels louder after our win and that's why we lost days later... Come on... I don't know it's so hard for people to acknowledge the actual reason we lost.

Not sure what this has to do with accountability/trust/respect anyway.