Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[colchar]

Yeah. Sure as hell wasn't everyone.

I could be wrong, if you have evidence to the contrary by all means enlighten me. How many posters are here and how many wanted the core 4 broken up?

There were a hell of a lot of us.

 

[colchar]

The best part, we've assembled a really good defence this year, and yet throw out the "yeah but it's an old defence". Who cares!!! We're in win now mode for the next few years. Why diminish how their playing now for fear of what they will look like 3 years from now? Like I said, these posters have the agenda of criticizing Treliving because their boy Dubas couldn't accomplish what Treliving has i.e. great goaltending, great defence with size, hiring a coach with a system geared towards success in the playoffs.

Keefe is down 2-0 to Carolina and Kyle 'Spreadsheet' Dubious isn't even in the playoffs, but some posters here still think they're hockey savants.

 

[Jojalu]

It is funny to me, you could literally go back two years and it's the same posters. There is no real value here, what's the point. Like crows, just shut the window.

While it gets tiring, I do appreciate some of their arguments.

The Leafs were good, maybe even very good for a couple of those years.

Goaltending is way better now can't really be argued.

This year so far they are unreal on the PP. That has never happened.

It's fine to enjoy or believe a different style of play is the best way to success. With the right group it might be. With this group, it turned out not to be.

If we were all like minded the world would be boring

 

[seventieslord]

As far as the eye test goes, they seem to get outplayed quite often and rely on really good goaltending. I would assume the “advanced stats” would back that up as well. If you keep letting up shots like they do, eventually bounces happen.

They have benefited from a very weak Eastern conference. They have to take advantage of it.

There is nothing to suggest that the Eastern Conference is weak this year. The East has a goal differential of plus 20 against the West this season. For all intents and purposes that is even when considering that's over the course of hundreds of games.

 

[seventieslord]

It doesn’t change the fact that the Eastern Conference is as weak as it’s been in years.

False

 

[sunstersun]

Dubas is a clown. I know it's random, but it's necessary.

 

[leafs in five]

I suppose it depends on how you look at it.

Is wanting to change one of the four 'breaking up the core'? I think a fair number of people want that, although they don't agree on which one.

I think there are a lot fewer who want to get rid of two or more, which l see as 'breaking up the core'.

In any case the tenure of the GM whose views and decisions are being proven wrong by this epic playoff run was defined by a commitment to keeping these four players

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

Tre is obviously better than Dubas and Dubas for sure made his share of mistakes like absolutely every GM does. I don't understand the raging hate boner so many of you have. It's almost cult like. Wheres this hate for Burke and Nonis? guys who traded our futures for literal trash and missed the playoffs for 10 years. People act like we had tons of success before Dubas that he ruined. We went from 10 years no playoffs to 7 years in a row with first Lou (with Dubas mentoring) and then Dubas. I get that we struggled once there, but we were still a good team. Before you even start the "dUmBaSs iNhErItEd tHe TeAm rFoM LoU" crap. Lou said in his FIRST press conference sitting beside Dubas at the table "if he's not running this team in 3 years I didn't do my job". If you want to blame someone blame Lou. He was brought in specifically to mentor and prepare Dubas to take over which after 3 years Dubas did and Lou left.

No doubt Tre has built a great team for us. But ask Calgary fans how good of as GM he is. Bet you get a different answer, more like your opinion of Dubas.

Dubas gets off very light actually. He deserves way more hate and people should be more nasty to him.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

While it gets tiring, I do appreciate some of their arguments.

The Leafs were good, maybe even very good for a couple of those years.

Goaltending is way better now can't really be argued.

This year so far they are unreal on the PP. That has never happened.

It's fine to enjoy or believe a different style of play is the best way to success. With the right group it might be. With this group, it turned out not to be.

If we were all like minded the world would be boring

I agree with everything you've said here. We've had very good teams and the past management team did some good things. But ultimately, they couldn't lead us to a cup.

However, these two posters are extremely pretentious. The fanbase is excited about the team that Treliving has assembled and God forbid if someone says something positive about that. They'll pull out random stats and assert that what we're witnessing isn't real, not sustainable, been done better before, all because their numbers say so. Worst of all, they claim to have the only knowledge that is real, even above those that have coached and played the game. What the fans are reacting to is an illusion, magic, based only on feeling, gut reaction, as if that wasn't a valid part of being a fan anyways. Reality lies in only what they say. If it wasn't so obvious what they're doing it'd be laughable. How can they possibly enjoy what we're seeing from the Leafs. It isn't real in their eyes. Sad.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

And compared Carlo to Holl

And compared Tanev to Holl

 

[DarkKnight]

And compared Tanev to Holl View attachment 1022551

I only know that because of all the responses laughing at him. What a joke

 

[DarkKnight]

While it gets tiring, I do appreciate some of their arguments.

The Leafs were good, maybe even very good for a couple of those years.

Goaltending is way better now can't really be argued.

This year so far they are unreal on the PP. That has never happened.

It's fine to enjoy or believe a different style of play is the best way to success. With the right group it might be. With this group, it turned out not to be.

If we were all like minded the world would be boring

That's not really what's going on here though. I love debating ideas and perspectives, but when it's just a bias trying to fit everything into a preconceived box, showing no pragmatism, literally for years, I get bored. Enjoy. Tre bad, Dubas good, it's brain dead stuff to me.

 

[notbias]

No he didn't, he sucked.

Sure, if you ignore reality, that is true.

Show me your work that he was bad during his tenure with Muzzin, all seasons, please.

Evidence please. Oh and you should really slow down on the logical fallacies- Bandwagon fallacy (or bandwagon appeal) is the main form of the ad populum fallacy and occurs when someone argues that a belief or action is correct because the majority of people support it.

Citation please.


Nothing is dumber than wanting Holl over Benoit.

Please show me where I wanted the current version of Holl over Benoit.

Your issue is you try and draw conclusions from data vs actually using common sense. You look for numbers to justify your position vs actually being objective about what is happening on the ice.

How about you let the team play the games and see how they respond to a bigger challenge?

We have a cup winning coach who knows how to get the most out of this team. I am truly sorry that dubas and co broke you, but things are ok now man.

Embrace the new identity. It’s here to stay.

You say to ignore data and numbers and be objective? How does this work?

I think this is the most illogical post in this entire thread.

Oh no! Another doom and gloom manifesto!

No one is saying they are amazing and a lock to win the cup, that's a giant strawman you built yourself. Declaring the team is being outplayed with zero evidence and fretting over a second-round exit is peak fanboy schizophrenia.

Your 5v5 analysis is laughably bad and the Florida obsession sounds like you’re scouting for their fan club. Stolarz has been outplaying Ullmark, yet you’re acting like Bobrovsky is prime Hasek. And banking on Florida’s PP and PK? Without Barkov? How much are putting down on Florida since you think they are such a lock?

Please, reading comprehension, please.

And compared Tanev to Holl View attachment 1022551

I mean this politely, you may need to go back and do some English classes to improve your reading comprehension.

Comparing play style doesn't mean that the players are comparable, really, try harder.

 

[DarkKnight]

That doesn't mean what you think it means.

It does to me.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Sure, if you ignore reality, that is true.

Show me your work that he was bad during his tenure with Muzzin, all seasons, please.



Please show me where I wanted the current version of Holl over Benoit.



You say to ignore data and numbers and be objective? How does this work?

I think this is the most illogical post in this entire thread.



Please, reading comprehension, please.



I mean this politely, you may need to go back and do some English classes to improve your reading comprehension.

Comparing play style doesn't mean that the players are comparable, really, try harder.

And I mean this with respect since you don't know anything about me...you're talking to a retired Math and English teacher, lol.

 

[Jojalu]

That's not really what's going on here though. I love debating ideas and perspectives, but when it's just a bias trying to fit everything into a preconceived box, showing not pragmatism literally for years, I get bored. Enjoy. Tre bad, Dubas good, it's brain dead stuff to me.

Easy to skip over or ignore if you so choose.

In the end I choose to hope they are Leaf fans and are enjoying this so far.

While I didn't hate Dubas or Keefe, they are long gone so it doesn't even matter anymore.

Enjoy this ride and the next!

 

[DarkKnight]

Easy to skip over or ignore if you so choose.

In the end I choose to hope they are Leaf fans and are enjoying this so far.

While I didn't hate Dubas or Keefe, they are long gone so it doesn't even matter anymore.

Enjoy this ride and the next!

Yep and I do.

Enjoying the ride!

 

[notDatsyuk]

In any case the tenure of the GM whose views and decisions are being proven wrong by this epic playoff run was defined by a commitment to keeping these four players

Of course, and there are still a few posters who feel that keeping all four is the best option.

But what I was responding to was the debate about how many posters want to 'break up the core'.

 

[Apex Predator]

I agree with everything you've said here. We've had very good teams and the past management team did some good things. But ultimately, they couldn't lead us to a cup.

However, these two posters are extremely pretentious. The fanbase is excited about the team that Treliving has assembled and God forbid if someone says something positive about that. They'll pull out random stats and assert that what we're witnessing isn't real, not sustainable, been done better before, all because their numbers say so. Worst of all, they claim to have the only knowledge that is real, even above those that have coached and played the game. What the fans are reacting to is an illusion, magic, based only on feeling, gut reaction, as if that wasn't a valid part of being a fan anyways. Reality lies in only what they say. If it wasn't so obvious what they're doing it'd be laughable. How can they possibly enjoy what we're seeing from the Leafs. It isn't real in their eyes. Sad.

You know who else does that? Jonas Siegel from leaf Report. Exact same stuff they’re saying he says.

 

[Bust]

You say to ignore data and numbers and be objective? How does this work?

I think this is the most illogical post in this entire thread.

How far would you like me to break this down for you? Would you even understand? I sincerely doubt it.

You’ve proven time and time again to have a poor grasp as to what happens on the ice, displayed in your poorly constructed, ignorant posts on this forum. Pretty tough look to be so consistently, confidently, incorrect.

If it was up to you the bottom 6 would be chalked full of kerfoots, and a guy like Holl would be playing top pairing with Reilly.

Dubas is gone now man. It’s ok. Things will be ok. The team will be ok. You will embrace this team and you will feel better in doing so. Put the calculator and spreadsheet down. Enjoy hockey.

 

[Atrusai]

There were a hell of a lot of us.

I'm still not convinced they shouldn't be. Even if we sweep the Sens that's not enough to justify rolling out a top heavy team when by dropping one we open up so much cap space. This team with added depth could be legit scary.

Only way you keep this roster the same is if they go out and dummy Florida and actually go on a deep run.

 

[sunstersun]

Dubas gets off very light actually. He deserves way more hate and people should be more nasty to him.

Dubas burned our crops and salted our land.

 

[ClarkSittler]

Sure, if you ignore reality, that is true.

Show me your work that he was bad during his tenure with Muzzin, all seasons, please.

Living in realty is great, you should try it sometime, in that world Holl has never been a good player.

Show me your work he was good with Muzzin. I'll wait.

Why does he need Muzzin to be good? Why can't he perform well all on his own? Benoit doesn't need anybody holding his hand, how come Holl does?

Please show me where I wanted the current version of Holl over Benoit.

Oh so now you're admitting Benoit is better than Holl? Congratulations, I'm very proud of you!

Please, reading comprehension, please.

Ah, the classic “reading comprehension” deflection , always a solid comeback when you have nothing substantive left to say. If you’re not going to engage with the actual points, let me know in advance next time, so I can just laugh at the nonsensical drivel in your posts and move on.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Fans from other teams seem to agree that this isn't your regular Leafs. Brad has truly transformed them. Florida will be tough If we advance, because they're the Champs, but I'm comfortable with anyone from the metro side.

I love what Brad has done with the D in such a short time. I used to cringe when the previous management brought in a "puck moving" D. Unless they're an absolute superstar, any dman labeled a "puck mover" we should stay well clear of.

 

[sunstersun]

Fans from other teams seem to agree that this isn't your regular Leafs. Brad has truly transformed them. Florida will be tough If we advance, because they're the Champs, but I'm comfortable with anyone from the metro side.

I love what Brad has done with the D in such a short time. I used to cringe when the previous management brought in a "puck moving" D. Unless they're an absolute superstar, any dman labeled a "puck mover" we should stay well clear of.

Honestly, it's partially just goaltending. Without Stolarz it could easily be 1-2 with 2 classic Leaf OT losses.