Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[ITM]

Sigh. I know we can't seem to talk about the present and the future without the ghost of Dubas overshadowing things, but I liked Dubas and didn't love the Treliving hire.

Having said this, Tre seems to be making the right moves to take what Dubas built to the next level. Is it is possible Dubas would have also? Maybe, but we have no evidence to suggest he would have.

I posted this earlier and didn't mention KD once, because this thread is about the job Treliving has done. After a very small sample size of one playoff game, the five points I made are still holding true and it was wasn't even our full A game.

1. Leadership. We seem poised and ready and there is not a lot noise around this team heading into the playoffs. I think Berube, Matthews, Tavares and probably Tre himself deserve a lot of credit for this. They actually seem "workmanlike".

2. Goaltending. Say no more. Even when it looked like Stolarz might be hurt, I thought "well, we have Woll too". No more Samankv. Say no more.

3. Defense. Did it ever feel like we were going to squander a lead or even let them back in the game? Blocking shot, boxing out, limited second chances, poise. Yep.

4. Depth. Ekman-Larson, Tanev, Laughton, Lorentz, Jarnkrok...let's not forget Knies. That's a half dozen guys that are not the big 5 or our goalie that had an impact on the game last night.

5. The Core Four. Nine points and and 3 for 6 on the PP. That's a couple of monkeys off backs early.

Yes, only one game and yes the Sens were not good but let's also remember that this team set a goal, worked hard and achieved this goal - win the division to get a first round match up to our liking.

So far, so good. Now let's see consistency and killer instinct.

I was a half glass full apologist myself for a time, but I think there's a time when loyalty to the team via it's process and not its outcome begins to ring untrue when glaring needs are repeatedly, inexplicably neglected or worse, unseen.

The interaction with Shanahan and Dubas' negotiation tactics revealed a substantial amount of what we can know (but didn't) about any number of interchanges Dubas may or may not have had in the past and in the future.

Apart from signing Tavares (that did more harm than good with subsequent signings from a cap management perspective), the single best team-building aspect of Dubas' tenure will be remembered for drafting Matthew Knies. Was that Clark's pick? Six of one I suppose. Dubas either picked him on his own or listened to his staff. And not to minimize, Knies was a bullseye. McCabe was a good trade as well.

What's separating the character and appearance of our club now from Dubas' time is Treliving's construction: Tanev, OEL and Stolarz and Berube and Carlo are seismic shifts. That's not "depth" created by Treliving, that's a new perspective and a new defense. Things Dubas never addressed according to need but prioritizing loyalty to his process, irrespective of the outcome precisely because his process seemed to be his preferred outcome (i.e. A fully integrated system originating in SSM; See Pittsburgh after Toronto.).

 

[CabanaBoy5]

The data was used to inform. And then you decided to ignore what it was informing you, and instead make contradictory conclusions about the state of the team based on nothing, because you didn't like what it said.

I addressed that context. We have had key injuries in other years, but I noted that Matthews' injury could be impacting the slight conversion drop relative to chance generation on the PP. I also looked at more recent samples for you (the ones you chose), to see if there was an adjustment period dragging down the results, and when there wasn't, I noted that losing our two best defensive defensemen in Tanev and McCabe for a handful of games could be contributing to the drop in our defensive results to end the year. But a lot of our issues can't be explained away by context.

They aren't experts, and they aren't informing you properly.

I have played the game, and you shouldn't be following anybody's subjective opinion. Not mine, not yours, not somebody on the TV. You will naturally gravitate towards any opinion that agrees with yours anyway, as we saw. You should be listening to the objective facts and data.

Good managers do not stick their fingers in their ears and ignore every possible basic and advanced metric showing the same thing. The same thing that is also very visible with the eye test.

If you read carefully, I said "use the stats to inform". Nowhere did I say that advanced stats should be ignored. However, they shouldn't be used as the sole factor informing you about the team. Read this last sentence again if you have to because it lies at the crux of what I've been saying. They are a part of the picture when it comes to analyzing a team. You continue to ignore what I and others have been saying. This team is playing a different style of game that doesn't always look good on the spreadsheet. You look solely at that spreadsheet and conclude that this team is worse than other years, that this team is not better prepared for these playoffs, that there aren't other factors just as important as expected goals for, against, etc leading to success for a team.

I saw a team last night that was different, that played with maturity, a maturity honed and developed during this season. A maturity that wasn't measured by the stats you continue to glorify. It doesn't make my opinion or that of others less valid than yours. We all make subjective opinions. Yours is a subjective opinion based on what you think is omniscient information. But, opinions are informed from many sources. You infer that if one doesn't make conclusions based on your sources, they aren't valid. This is inherently faulty thinking. I've stated many facts about this team that you have continually glossed over or minimized to fit your agenda. Try to be more open-minded to the "facts" that may differ from yours.

 

[Mess]

Thanks BT

That is what you get with .939 SV% goalie in net in the playoffs.

Having a REAL GM, again makes all the difference.

"Good teams are built from the Goalie Out, through strong defense ....."

 

[Donnie740]

I dunno, the vibe I’m getting from your and others argument I’m seeing is that “we’re so much worse than what Keefe and Dubas gave us, so stop having fun and all this teams accomplishments should have an asterisk.”

Acting like our advanced stats being worse, some slightly, some largely, means this team is “worse overall” than past iterations is wrong. We’ve had this argument before, but by far I take this years teams defence and goaltending over any other iteration of the Matthews era Leafs.

If goaltending is so important, and it is, maybe the previous regime should’ve invested more into it instead of relying on a career backup, trading for damaged goods, or lucking into Samsonov who gave us one good year and series.

That’s precisely what it is.

Apologists of Kyle Dumbass and Bozo The Keefe cannot bear the thought of Treliving and Berube being successful in Toronto when their heroes were such colossal failures.

Especially given how Pittsburgh has become the laughingstock of the league and New Jersey is the exact same as Toronto was with Bizo The Keefe - - a soft team that can’t score in the playoffs.

 

[conFABulator]

I was a half glass full apologist myself for a time, but I think there's a time when loyalty to the team via it's process and not its outcome begins to ring untrue when glaring needs are repeatedly, inexplicably neglected or worse, unseen.

The interaction with Shanahan and Dubas' negotiation tactics revealed a substantial amount of what we can know (but didn't) about any number of interchanges Dubas may or may not have had in the past and in the future.

Apart from signing Tavares (that did more harm than good with subsequent signings from a cap management perspective), the single best team-building aspect of Dubas' tenure will be remembered for drafting Matthew Knies. Was that Clark's pick? Six of one I suppose. Dubas either picked him on his own or listened to his staff. And not to minimize, Knies was a bullseye. McCabe was a good trade as well.

What's separating the character and appearance of our club now from Dubas' time is Treliving's construction: Tanev, OEL and Stolarz and Berube and Carlo are seismic shifts. That's not "depth" created by Treliving, that's a new perspective and a new defense. Things Dubas never addressed according to need but prioritizing loyalty to his process, irrespective of the outcome precisely because his process seemed to be his preferred outcome (i.e. A fully integrated system originating in SSM; See Pittsburgh after Toronto.).

How about we keep it on what Tre has done? My definition of depth is anyone beyond the Core Four and Reilly. Obviously, that may undersell their contribution but I am using it as shorthand because the big five have always been the "core" and by thks definition everything else is depth.

On that note, key depth moves by Tre include...

Stolarz
Woll (re-signing)
Benoit (and re-signing)
Myers (and re-signing)
OEL
Carlo
McCabe (re-signing)
Tanev
Lorentz
Laughton
McMann (re-signing)
Domi
Kampf (re-signing)
Nylander (re-signing)
Matthews (re-signing)

Or that list, Domi and Kampf stand out as maybe not good moves, everything else is hard to argue. We could also add that NOT re-signing Tavares and Marner until after these playoffs (if at all) was another important move.

Basically Knies, Reilly, and Jarnkrok as pieces he has had nothing to do with. Add in Berube and the captaincy switch and I think he has done a very good job.

 

[conFABulator]

Kyle Dumbass didn’t “build” anything in Toronto. He inherited what Lamoriello, Nonis, Burke and Shanahan already had in place.

Matthews, Marner and Nylander all on ELCs. Kadri and Rielly on very affordable contracts. A full cupboard of draft picks and no long term boat anchor deals. His “worst” contract was ONE (1) year remaining at $6.25M for Pat Marleau.

Half a decade later, with all of that in place for him, Dumbass could only manage to win ONE (1) playoff round.

Let’s be honest and just acknowledge that Dumbass is an incompetent GM. He’s proven that again in Pittsburgh - - two years in the job there and the Penguins are in even worse shape than when he arrived.

Yeah, you lost me with the wordplay name calling. Maybe go to a Dubas thread, this is a Treliving one.

 

[LeafSteel]

If you read carefully, I said "use the stats to inform". Nowhere did I say that advanced stats should be ignored. However, they shouldn't be used as the sole factor informing you about the team. Read this last sentence again if you have to because it lies at the crux of what I've been saying. They are a part of the picture when it comes to analyzing a team. You continue to ignore what I and others have been saying. This team is playing a different style of game that doesn't always look good on the spreadsheet. You look solely at that spreadsheet and conclude that this team is worse than other years, that this team is not better prepared for these playoffs, that there aren't other factors just as important as expected goals for, against, etc leading to success for a team.

I saw a team last night that was different, that played with maturity, a maturity honed and developed during this season. A maturity that wasn't measured by the stats you continue to glorify. It doesn't make my opinion or that of others less valid than yours. We all make subjective opinions. Yours is a subjective opinion based on what you think is omniscient information. But, opinions are informed from many sources. You infer that if one doesn't make conclusions based on your sources, they aren't valid. This is inherently faulty thinking. I've stated many facts about this team that you have continually glossed over or minimized to fit your agenda. Try to be more open-minded to the "facts" that may differ from yours.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRJ9pPw3fKoxLZXOsAX_7aAGAMHpdg-yU2PZf2ZJ01AaA&s

 

[LeafSteel]

If you read carefully, I said "use the stats to inform". Nowhere did I say that advanced stats should be ignored. However, they shouldn't be used as the sole factor informing you about the team. Read this last sentence again if you have to because it lies at the crux of what I've been saying. They are a part of the picture when it comes to analyzing a team. You continue to ignore what I and others have been saying. This team is playing a different style of game that doesn't always look good on the spreadsheet. You look solely at that spreadsheet and conclude that this team is worse than other years, that this team is not better prepared for these playoffs, that there aren't other factors just as important as expected goals for, against, etc leading to success for a team.

I saw a team last night that was different, that played with maturity, a maturity honed and developed during this season. A maturity that wasn't measured by the stats you continue to glorify. It doesn't make my opinion or that of others less valid than yours. We all make subjective opinions. Yours is a subjective opinion based on what you think is omniscient information. But, opinions are informed from many sources. You infer that if one doesn't make conclusions based on your sources, they aren't valid. This is inherently faulty thinking. I've stated many facts about this team that you have continually glossed over or minimized to fit your agenda. Try to be more open-minded to the "facts" that may differ from yours.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Don’t you just hate it when the spreadsheets say the Leafs should lose, but on the scoreboard the Leafs actually win?

That’s almost as bad as when the spreadsheets say the Leafs should win, but on the scoreboard the Leafs end up losing.

We're way past the expected cup stage now. With Brad and Craig we're trying to win the actual cup now.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Can the advanced stats crew that are more worried about that than winning actual games, go and start their own thread somewhere?

 

[conFABulator]

Can the advanced stats crew that are more worried about that than winning actual games, go and start their own thread somewhere?

Can they take the ones that tie everything back to Dubas with them? Tre has been here close to two years now. Can we talk about the job he is doing?

 

[All Mod Cons]

Can they take the ones that tie everything back to Dubas with them? Tre has been here close to two years now. Can we talk about the job he is doing?

Absolutely. And it's been a fantastic job so far. Really impressed with how he's gone about things.

 

[DarkKnight]

Literally 67 percent of our top 6 D are his doing and I'm actually reading all he did was add a goalie? Also, adding a goalie was so easy, his predecessor spent years getting it wrong. So what does that make him then? Oh yes, still searching for one on another team coincidentally.

 

[Mess]

Literally 67 percent of our top 6 D are his doing and I'm actually reading all he did was add a goalie? Also, adding a goalie was so easy, his predecessor spent years getting it wrong. So what does that make him then? Oh yes, still searching for one on another team coincidentally.

Treliving likes his Dman Big, Mean and Mobile and done an excellent job rebuilding Leafs Dcore in his image in only his 2nd season.

Chris Tanev is a shot blocking stud among the top 5 in the league and a rock defensively, and a key part of Leafs shutdown pairing.

Brandon Carlo was a huge addition at the TD bring his wealth of Boston experience and is a solid defensive Damn.

OEL was once a high 1st round draft pick that comes over having scored 20 goals in a season in the past and was a member of Florida's Cup winning team last year.

Simon Beniot is a hard hitting 3rd pairing Dman that is underrated for his play.

We might still see 6-7 giant Jani Hakanpää before these playoffs are over.

I give BT a A+ for his defense rebuild.

 

[DarkKnight]

Treliving likes his Dman Big, Mean and Mobile and done an excellent job rebuilding Leafs Dcore in his image in only his 2nd season.

Chris Tanev is a shot blocking stud among the top 5 in the league and a rock defensively, and a key part of Leafs shutdown pairing.

Brandon Carlo was a huge addition at the TD bring his wealth of Boston experience and is a solid defensive Damn.

OEL was once a high 1st round draft pick that comes over having scored 20 goals in a season in the past and was a member of Florida's Cup winning team last year.

Simon Beniot is a hard hitting 3rd pairing Dman that is underrated for his play.

We might still see 6-7 giant Jani Hakanpää before these playoffs are over.

I give BT a A+ for his defense rebuild.

And the other two depth D are his guys as well. Myers looks capable, we're going to see some injuries. It's comical people can't admit he's reshaped the D, but why stop now.

 

[Mess]

And the other two depth D are his guys as well. Myers looks capable, we're going to see some injuries. It's comical people can't admit he's reshaped the D, but why stop now.

They must miss the days when Justin "piece of crap" Holl was so important to the Leafs Dcore that he was protected in the expansion draft.

I don't.

He was apparently irreplaceable and vital to the past GM vision of success,, that unlike most teams that protected 7F-3D-1G the Leafs went 4F and 4D and 1G protected 2 less players allowing Seattle to take 40 goal man Jared McCann off the Leafs hands.

Look what McCann has done

That had to be the epitome of stupidity !!

Leafs hire GM Treliving May 31, 2023 and July 1st 2023 Justin Holl is shown the door can't be removed fast enough, as BT cleans up the mess he inherited.,

 

[DarkKnight]

They must miss the days when Justin "piece of crap" Holl was so important to the Leafs Dcore that he was protected in the expansion draft.

I don't.

He was apparently irreplaceable and vital to the past GM vision of success,, that unlike most teams that protected 7F-3D-1G the Leafs went 4F and 4D and 1G protected 2 less players allowing Seattle to take 40 goal man Jared McCann off the Leafs hands.

Leafs hire GM Treliving May 31, 2023 and July 1st 2023 Justin Holl is shown the door can't be removed fast enough, as BT cleans up the mess he inherited.,

Actually one of them compared waiver wire Holl and Carlo. That's how sad it can go lol.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Imagine thinking this team has all these awesome changes but offering no evidence to support your claim other than saying watch the games.

Then pooh-poohing away the statistics that show there has been no discernable improvement outside goaltending. But if the stats were in their favour they wouldn't be so silly or irrelevant I'm sure. It's like everyone should just take their word the team has all these massive improvements that for some reason just aren't showing up anywhere in the results.

Intellectual dishonesty at it's finest.

 

[Stephen]

We're way past the expected cup stage now. With Brad and Craig we're trying to win the actual cup now.

Yep. Play the right way in a repeatable system, grind it out and compete honest to goodness for the cup. Not slap a team together at the deadline and sim forward like you’ve made a bet, it’s a simulation or whatever analogy Dubas used. Guy just expected to sail to a cup on probability.

 

[Stephen]

Imagine thinking this team has all these awesome changes but offering no evidence to support your claim other than saying watch the games.

Then pooh-poohing away the statistics that show there has been no discernable improvement outside goaltending. But if the stats were in their favour they wouldn't be so silly or irrelevant I'm sure. It's like everyone should just take their word the team has all these massive improvements that for some reason just aren't showing up anywhere in the results.

Intellectual dishonesty at it's finest.

I’m shocked that anyone was able to win a Stanley Cup before analytics came along and statsplained everything and all they could was watch and play the game.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I’m shocked that anyone was able to win a Stanley Cup before analytics came along and statsplained everything and all they could was watch and play the game.

It's always easier to mock than refute.

 

[Stephen]

It's always easier to mock than refute.

There’s nothing to refute. The eye test is the main course and the stats pack is a nice side dish that compliments the experience. You make it about one thing or the other, I’m picking the actual enjoyment of the sport and not the box score.

 

[Donnie740]

Imagine thinking this team has all these awesome changes but offering no evidence to support your claim other than saying watch the games.

Division champions for the first time in a quarter century and only the second time in EIGHTY-SEVEN (87) years.

That’s irrefutable evidence, my friend.

And no, being “division champions” for half a season in a half-assed realigned division doesn’t count.

 

[Petrus]

…..

5. The Core Four. Nine points and and 3 for 6 on the PP. That's a couple of monkeys off backs early.

…..

So far, so good. Now let's see consistency and killer instinct.

Sometimes you just gotta slap the monkey for the win.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

There’s nothing to refute. The eye test is the main course and the stats pack is a nice side dish that compliments the experience. You make it about one thing or the other, I’m picking the actual enjoyment of the sport and not the box score.

The world looks flat from where I stand too.