Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[tuckerintensity]

Why do you think CGY’s blueline was the most sought after this year?

Because they were on expiring contracts, Calgary was a very obvious seller (who built that team, btw?) and these players were perfect rentals and/or trade and signs.

I don't understand why everyone has to hate Dubas if they love Treliving. Or hate Treliving if they loved Dubas. But that seems to be the case with most fans here.

Maybe Treliving sticks and actually makes changes, but everything he's done so far suggests he likes the core, he liked the coach, and he didn't think we needed defensive help until the deadline (where he traded for a guy Dubas had traded for in the past). If we base our opinions on Treliving's work in Toronto, he's gone about business in an eerily similar way to Dubas (almost like Shanahan hired him to do what he wants). If we look at his body of work as a whole, it's not that great either. Under him, the Flames missed the playoffs in four of nine years, lost in the first round three times, and the second round the other two times.

This isn't to pile on Treliving either. It's not like we won anything before he got here, it's only to say based on what we know and what we have seen, nothing suggests that he's doing or will do a great job. In fact, what it appears he is doing so far is exactly the same thing as the last guy.

 

[Americanadian]

Are you expecting that more contracts won't exceed his cap hit going forward?

I think by the time he's outside of the top 10 paid forwards he will be over 30 and approaching current Tavares' territory. The only players I see passing him anytime soon are Draisaitl, Marner, Rantanen, Kaprizov. The point being - he will always be overpaid relative to his rank in the league.

Do you think Nylander will be a top 10 forward in the league next year when he will be the 5th highest paid?

Cliff Fletcher had a big win with the Doug Gilmour trade, but more than his share of blunders. It's not just one thing or another, but the entire picture.

Big wins can be cancelled out by big losses.

 

[Gabriel426]

Depends how you quantify a big win.

Bill Zito turned Florida around pretty quickly with a series of small wins but also landed some big wins in Verhaeghe, Forsling, Montour, Reinhart and Tkachuk which have been catalysts for their success.

Colorado needed big wins with Toews, Kadri and Nichushkin to push them over the top.

VGK have had a ton of big wins that lead to their cup (Pietrangelo, Stone, Stephenson, the whole expansion draft)

TBL had a big win with McDonagh that pushed them over the top to win their cups.

Treliving has had small wins with the Benoit, McMann and Domi contracts. That's overshadowed by a monumental loss on the Nylander contract. It's yet to be seen how he navigates this off-season with Marner and Tavares.

Zito wins beside Tkachuk were all small wins or meh trades in the beginning. Same with Avs, maybe not Kadri trade. Vegas is a unicorn from the very beginning. As I stated multiple times, any competent owners/MGTs should swallow their pride and just follow the Vegas model.

I think I should rephrase and say GM should never go for flashy wins.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Now, come on. You aren't into the Crown Royal, are you?

Jim Gregory and Pat Quinn were both pretty good GM's.

As much as a couldn't stand Punch Imlach, his first tenure as Leafs GM brought home their last four Stanley Cups, but that was before the dementia set in.

I kid.

Gregory and Quinn were solid. I'm not convinced Imlach was great the first time around. He was the beneficiary of a very strong crop of Marlie and St. Mike's juniors, and he totally bungled the expansion process.

 

[Americanadian]

Zito wins beside Tkachuk were all small wins or meh trades in the beginning. Same with Avs, maybe not Kadri trade. Vegas is a unicorn from the very beginning. As I stated multiple times, any competent owners/MGTs should swallow their pride and just follow the Vegas model.

I think I should rephrase and say GM should never go for flashy wins.

I assume what you're getting at is we should give Treliving time to make adds because they may turn out to be big wins. I would be fine with that logic except the Leafs don't have a ton of time with Matthews in his prime and Treliving doesn't have a history of finding hidden gems.

 

[Gabriel426]

I assume what you're getting at is we should give Treliving time to make adds because they may turn out to be big wins. I would be fine with that logic except the Leafs don't have a ton of time with Matthews in his prime and Treliving doesn't have a history of finding hidden gems.

I dont mind either ways as long as there are real changes and not window dressing stuff.
The core is rotten as they don’t have any true leaders. They need to bring in true leaders who won and can still contribute.
AM is more Eichel than McD in that he can and will score 80goals but he can’t be count on when the going gets tough, he needs someone there to do the heavy lifting.

 

[Americanadian]

I dont mind either ways as long as there are real changes and not window dressing stuff.
The core is rotten as they don’t have any true leaders. They need to bring in true leaders who won and can still contribute.
AM is more Eichel than McD in that he can and will score 80goals but he can’t be count on when the going gets tough, he needs someone there to do the heavy lifting.

Fully agree with everything except Eichel has a cup and McDavid doesn’t.

 

[34]

Treliving needs to be fired.

 

[Cassell]

Treliving needs to be fired.

I’m amenable to that, but the obvious question then needs to be asked.

Replace him with who?

 

[ToneDog]

I assume what you're getting at is we should give Treliving time to make adds because they may turn out to be big wins. I would be fine with that logic except the Leafs don't have a ton of time with Matthews in his prime and Treliving doesn't have a history of finding hidden gems.

Trade Matthews and you won't be on the clock. Given next year is most likely a write off, odds are you do not have enough time to surround him with a winning recipe before he asks for $15.34m.

 

[34]

I’m amenable to that, but the obvious question then needs to be asked.

Replace him with who?

Shanahan, Treliving and Keefe all need to go. Also the assistant coaches need to go. MLSE absolutely needs to clean house after tomorrow nights game. The culture absolutely sucks in the Maple Leafs organization. A wholesale change is in order. Time to take the trash out.


Who do you replace him with? That is a good question. Can’t get any worse can it. There has to be multiple suitable candidates out there who will be successful.

 

[Americanadian]

Trade Matthews and you won't be on the clock. Given next year is most likely a write off, odds are you do not have enough time to surround him with a winning recipe before he asks for $15.34m.

Whoever signs that next deal will be making a huge mistake.

I fully supported moving Matthews before his NMC kicked in but now he gets to pick his destination which would heavily dilute the return.

 

[aingefan]

I think GM don’t need big wins, they just need a whole bunch of small wins and eventually it will add up to winning big.
Dubas looked for the big win all the time. JT signing to prove that he can play ball in the big league. Then giving out blank cheques to Willie, AM and MM bc he doesn’t want people to think he can’t do it.

I’ve never seen the JT signing as being that.
I think it was to lock down the C position and make it a strength after a decade or so of it not being that.
And to spread the offense with a proven player to distribute some pressure off young shoulders at the time.

 

[Americanadian]

I’m amenable to that, but the obvious question then needs to be asked.

Replace him with who?

The next GM doesn’t have to be a known commodity. Look at what Trotz did in Nashville - a complete culture reset. He came in and shipped out RyJo with 4M retained for free then bought out Duchene and brought in ROR. People thought he was crazy. The team made the playoffs.

 

[notbias]

I’m amenable to that, but the obvious question then needs to be asked.

Replace him with who?

Wing it like the last offseason? Fire the guy and then decide.

Not actually, but that is why we are here.

 

[saffronleaf]

If the test is outperforming his predecessor then yes. If the test was being a top 5 GM in the league, which MLSE should be able to pay for every season, I would say he did not pass that test.

newgm is top 5 GMOAT

 

[Gabriel426]

The next GM doesn’t have to be a known commodity. Look at what Trotz did in Nashville - a complete culture reset. He came in and shipped out RyJo with 4M retained for free then bought out Duchene and brought in ROR. People thought he was crazy. The team made the playoffs.

That’s the cultural reset we need. But it is going to be hard. Bc guys like AM needs to understand whatever they are doing just not working but if AM puts up goals after goals after goals, it is hard make him follow.

I’ve never seen the JT signing as being that.
I think it was to lock down the C position and make it a strength after a decade or so of it not being that.
And to spread the offense with a proven player to distribute some pressure off young shoulders at the time.

Well, both can be true at the same time.
He is the biggest UFA in the cap era. And getting him to sign is/was a huge victory in terms of creating buzz.
At the same time, JT was supposed to be the piece that mentor and help the young guns to the next stage.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Timing is the real issue here.

Brad Treliving was hired as general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs on Wednesday May 31, 2023. As part of the agreement for the Leafs to be able to talk to Treliving before his contract expired on June 30th, 2023 was that he was not allowed to be an active participant in the Leafs draft on June 24th.

Marner's NMC contract clause would kick in July 1st, 2023, when his UFA status year kicked in.

With only 1 month on the job, and not allowed essentially trade Marner at the draft as part of his non-compete agreement there was very little time to make such a big trade.

He certainly could have traded Mitch - not being able to sit at the draft table should not have affected that.

I can understand him not wanting to rush something that big, but not doing it is probably his biggest mistake, even worse that keeping Keefe.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Why though?

When he becomes a UFA July 1st 2025, the Leafs are just one of 32 teams he could play for, and JT is one of dozens of centers the Leafs could try out. Why continue to stick with someone who's clearly not working out? He had his chance here. there is zero reason to be attached to JT at that point. Move on.

If he wants to stay in Toronto, sign him as a coach or scout - not as a player.

 

[notDatsyuk]

he traded 6 picks at the deadline

Six low picks rather than six high ones like last year.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I think by the time he's outside of the top 10 paid forwards he will be over 30 and approaching current Tavares' territory. The only players I see passing him anytime soon are Draisaitl, Marner, Rantanen, Kaprizov. The point being - he will always be overpaid relative to his rank in the league.

Do you think Nylander will be a top 10 forward in the league next year when he will be the 5th highest paid?

Pending any other signings, he'll be tied for 6th highest next year.

He was top ten this year, even playing mainly on the second and third lines, with Tavares usually his best linemate.

 

[seanlinden]

He certainly could have traded Mitch - not being able to sit at the draft table should not have affected that.

I can understand him not wanting to rush something that big, but not doing it is probably his biggest mistake, even worse that keeping Keefe.

This.

It is a little hard to fault him because he didn't exactly have a ton of time; but the Leafs had a window to "reset" how they were going to handle negotations and the expectations about what youre going to be paid if you want to play for the Toronto Maple Leafs; and rather than doing that, Treliving continued the Dubas approach of rewarding the stars and hoping that everyone else just feels lucky to sit beside them.

If you can't convince the likes of Matthews, Marner, and Nylander to leave money on the table like every other team gets their star players to do, then you cannot win with them, especially all of them.

 

[Stephen]

I assume what you're getting at is we should give Treliving time to make adds because they may turn out to be big wins. I would be fine with that logic except the Leafs don't have a ton of time with Matthews in his prime and Treliving doesn't have a history of finding hidden gems.

He's got a decent track record of finding hidden gems in Calgary.

Adam Fox, Andrew Mangiapane, Oliver Kylington, Dustin Wolf in the draft in the later rounds.

 

[leafs in five]

Six low picks rather than six high ones like last year.

what was the 3rd we gave up for Schenn? or the 3rd we got back for Engvall?

 

[centipede2233]

The next GM doesn’t have to be a known commodity. Look at what Trotz did in Nashville - a complete culture reset. He came in and shipped out RyJo with 4M retained for free then bought out Duchene and brought in ROR. People thought he was crazy. The team made the playoffs.

We tried the unknow commodity, his name was dubas….