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OT: Boxing Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter BarbaraAlphanse
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Bleed Ranger Blue said:
Why's that? Because Canelo wont come to 160? These guys have nowhere else to go.
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Just reading everything that is coming out. Canelo says he gives up 160, then says he won't do what Golovkin wants.

Honestly, I can see the WBC pulling off some insane move to cater to Canelo that allows him to keep the belt and get another voluntary defense.

Kellerman and lampley said today that Canelo-GGG needs to be done by nextCDM or no fight. If Canelo is stripped, why should Golovkin wait for him if he has gotten all the belts?

Golovkin's goal is the belts. Then he probably moves to 168. Talk of froch. Talk of Hopkins. Talk of degale. Talk of Zurdo.

He'd probably be at 168 by now if it wasn't for Cotto and Canelo hogging the belts.

Canelo chose to fight a welterweight. He's going to argue now that he isn't prepared to fight Golovkin without a defense vs a true middle weight. If he's stripped, why should ggg fight him? Sure, the money, but it seems like Golovkin has never been in it for that. There was an interview w a past champ who had agreed to fight Golovkin but then backed out. He said the negotiation with Golovkin went like this: "my manager went out and asked them what they wanted if we were to fight. They said a GGG logo on the canvas and 20 seats ring side. My manager said, ok, but in terms of split. They came back and said they'd do it for free if they got the first two":

Golovkin is a millionaire now. If it is about pride, and he gets the belts, why fight Canelo?
 
BarbaraAlphanse said:
Just reading everything that is coming out. Canelo says he gives up 160, then says he won't do what Golovkin wants.

Honestly, I can see the WBC pulling off some insane move to cater to Canelo that allows him to keep the belt and get another voluntary defense.

Kellerman and lampley said today that Canelo-GGG needs to be done by nextCDM or no fight. If Canelo is stripped, why should Golovkin wait for him if he has gotten all the belts?

Golovkin's goal is the belts. Then he probably moves to 168. Talk of froch. Talk of Hopkins. Talk of degale. Talk of Zurdo.

He'd probably be at 168 by now if it wasn't for Cotto and Canelo hogging the belts.

Canelo chose to fight a welterweight. He's going to argue now that he isn't prepared to fight Golovkin without a defense vs a true middle weight. If he's stripped, why should ggg fight him? Sure, the money, but it seems like Golovkin has never been in it for that. There was an interview w a past champ who had agreed to fight Golovkin but then backed out. He said the negotiation with Golovkin went like this: "my manager went out and asked them what they wanted if we were to fight. They said a GGG logo on the canvas and 20 seats ring side. My manager said, ok, but in terms of split. They came back and said they'd do it for free if they got the first two":

Golovkin is a millionaire now. If it is about pride, and he gets the belts, why fight Canelo?
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Because beating a top fighter like Canelo is about pride. How much longer is he going to fight the Dominic Wade's of the world.

Its the biggest fight in boxing and sooner or later it'll get done. And it'll blow Mayweather/Pacquaio away in terms of entertainment value.
 
Bleed Ranger Blue said:
Because beating a top fighter like Canelo is about pride. How much longer is he going to fight the Dominic Wade's of the world.

Its the biggest fight in boxing and sooner or later it'll get done. And it'll blow Mayweather/Pacquaio away in terms of entertainment value.
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That's true. But then he's succumbing to fighting Canelo on his terms. So it's either Canelo succumbs to fight on Golovkin's or Golovkin succumbs to fight on canelos. Golovkin already sacrificed with this first voluntary defense. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. At that point, screw it. At least if it is me, Canelo doesn't define my career. Moving up and fighting the champs at 168 does.
 
BarbaraAlphanse said:
That's true. But then he's succumbing to fighting Canelo on his terms. So it's either Canelo succumbs to fight on Golovkin's or Golovkin succumbs to fight on canelos. Golovkin already sacrificed with this first voluntary defense. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. At that point, screw it. At least if it is me, Canelo doesn't define my career. Moving up and fighting the champs at 168 does.
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Who is at 168 for GGG? You think a fight with Arthur Abraham or Badou Jack is going to be a big PPV hit?

GGG and Canelo will fight by Cinco De Mayo 2016. They both have nowhere else to go. And Canelo is probably going to get his ass whooped
 
Bleed Ranger Blue said:
Who is at 168 for GGG? You think a fight with Arthur Abraham or Badou Jack is going to be a big PPV hit?

GGG and Canelo will fight by Cinco De Mayo 2016. They both have nowhere else to go. And Canelo is probably going to get his ass whooped
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I'd guess Hopkins, degale, and maybe even Andre Ward if he comes back down?

Btw I'm really interested in this Ward Barrera fight.

Barrera is a total wild card. Volume puncher who has the physical conditioning to throw punch after punch until he connects and then keep going.

Also, Ward is small for that division. Hopkins has similar height, reach, and weight and (provided yes age was a factor but still) he said he felt small versus Kovalev at 175. It wasn't just Kovalev, it was the weight class that he said was too much to hand.

Hopkins 6'1, fought at 160 and then later on, 168. 75" reach.

Ward 6'0, fought at 168 because he didn't want to fight andre Dirrell at 165 in the olympics, then adopted the weight as a professional. 71" reach.

Sullivan Barrera 6'2. 73" reach. Much better KO% at a heavier weight class 12/17 fights ended in KOs.

I think this is gonna be a much tougher fight for Ward than anyone anticipates. Rust will play a factor. Moving up in weight will play a factor. His opponent, who seems like a dangerous match up now that I've watched some tape on him, will play a factor.

I'm not going to predict Ward losing... But it honestly wouldn't surprise me.
 
Bleed Ranger Blue said:
An Andre Ward sighting is about as common as a yetti sighting.

I think he shows some early rust but cruises to a relatively easy decision. Ward hasn't fought much, Barrera hasn't fought anyone.
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Barrera had an impressive amateur career. He beat Chad Dawson and won world junior Gold back in 2000.

That's a far time away, but he has always had the skill. I read up a lot on him the last week and a half. And I watched a decent amount of film on him during my rare spare time.

He punches awkwardly. Meaning, I think he has room for improvement with his form. If he continues what I saw, the way he punches will mean his power punching swings (if they connect) will hit with the inside of his glove, as opposed to directly in the front where the knuckles are. Yet he has enough power punching this way that he's KO'ed 12 of his opponents out of a possible 17.

It seems that Barrera saw a lot more direct training with Abel Sanchez once they landed this fight. Gennady Golovkin personally helped train Barrera, as well. An article just came out yesterday where Barrera explained the boost in confidence he was feeling just by having Golovkin in his corner.

He's definitely going to be slower than Ward... or, at least, what Ward used to be. His punches are definitely a bit loopy. But, he's a volume puncher.

Think Mayweather-Maidana. Barrera has the physique where he'll continue coming and coming and punching and punching and won't tire till maybe the 8th or 9th round. The stark difference between Maidana-Mayweather and Barrera-Ward (despite the fact that Maidana had achieved more professional accolades than Barrera and Mayweather was never as rusty as Ward) is the flip flop in weight and the roles each boxer has. Maidana came up from 140/144 to fight Floyd at 148. Floyd was taller and had a longer reach than Maidana. Barrera is taller and has a longer reach than Ward. Ward is the one not used to the weight and the power of the fighters in the division.

Personally, I think this will be a great fight. I don't think Andre will school Barrera, at all. Frankly, I'd be more surprised at Andre schooling Barrera than Barrera KOing Andre. The rust, his 2nd fight in 27 months, will surely show at points in this fight. And his chin will definitely be tested. Volume punchers connect. Maidana hit Floyd hard quite a few times their first fight. Difference is Maidana's punching power didn't take a hit by moving up divisions. And Ward hasn't been hit a lot by a 175 pounder.

I'm looking at the following outcomes:

Andre over Sullivan on the score cards (either 7-5 or 8-4)
Sullivan over Ward (TKO in round 6 or 7)

Either or.
 
BarbaraAlphanse said:
Barrera had an impressive amateur career. He beat Chad Dawson and won world junior Gold back in 2000.

That's a far time away, but he has always had the skill. I read up a lot on him the last week and a half. And I watched a decent amount of film on him during my rare spare time.

He punches awkwardly. Meaning, I think he has room for improvement with his form. If he continues what I saw, the way he punches will mean his power punching swings (if they connect) will hit with the inside of his glove, as opposed to directly in the front where the knuckles are. Yet he has enough power punching this way that he's KO'ed 12 of his opponents out of a possible 17.

It seems that Barrera saw a lot more direct training with Abel Sanchez once they landed this fight. Gennady Golovkin personally helped train Barrera, as well. An article just came out yesterday where Barrera explained the boost in confidence he was feeling just by having Golovkin in his corner.

He's definitely going to be slower than Ward... or, at least, what Ward used to be. His punches are definitely a bit loopy. But, he's a volume puncher.

Think Mayweather-Maidana. Barrera has the physique where he'll continue coming and coming and punching and punching and won't tire till maybe the 8th or 9th round. The stark difference between Maidana-Mayweather and Barrera-Ward (despite the fact that Maidana had achieved more professional accolades than Barrera and Mayweather was never as rusty as Ward) is the flip flop in weight and the roles each boxer has. Maidana came up from 140/144 to fight Floyd at 148. Floyd was taller and had a longer reach than Maidana. Barrera is taller and has a longer reach than Ward. Ward is the one not used to the weight and the power of the fighters in the division.

Personally, I think this will be a great fight. I don't think Andre will school Barrera, at all. Frankly, I'd be more surprised at Andre schooling Barrera than Barrera KOing Andre. The rust, his 2nd fight in 27 months, will surely show at points in this fight. And his chin will definitely be tested. Volume punchers connect. Maidana hit Floyd hard quite a few times their first fight. Difference is Maidana's punching power didn't take a hit by moving up divisions. And Ward hasn't been hit a lot by a 175 pounder.

I'm looking at the following outcomes:

Andre over Sullivan on the score cards (either 7-5 or 8-4)
Sullivan over Ward (TKO in round 6 or 7)

Either or.
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I admittedly don't know enough about Barrera. But I do know that Andre Ward, Roc Nation, HBO, and Main Events Boxing wouldnt put Ward in a truly dangerous spot with a big Kovalev/Ward fight at stake down the line.
 
Bleed Ranger Blue said:
I admittedly don't know enough about Barrera. But I do know that Andre Ward, Roc Nation, HBO, and Main Events Boxing wouldnt put Ward in a truly dangerous spot with a big Kovalev/Ward fight at stake down the line.
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That is what one of my co-workers says. It makes sense. Definitely. Especially when money is at stake.

However, he needs to take some type of risk to prepare for Kovalev.It was either Barrera or Berbetiev. Or another hard hitting 175 pder. Barrera is an unknown. But, he was supposed to fight Kovalev next. He was the mandatory after Pascal.

He was given the option of Kovalev first or Ward first. Without blinking, he took Ward. That tells me he was either afraid of Kovalev, which makes sense, and/or he thought Ward was ripe for the taking.

A Kovalev title fight would have probably given him more money. Why would he risk losing that unless he thought he could beat Ward, then set up a more lucrative showdown vs. Kovalev?
 
Eating crow. Barrera did nothing from what I saw in previous fights. Fought as a counter puncher. Should've been volume punching.

Wards defense is truly elite.
 
BarbaraAlphanse said:
Eating crow. Barrera did nothing from what I saw in previous fights. Fought as a counter puncher. Should've been volume punching.

Wards defense is truly elite.
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You just seemed to forget how good Ward is, which is understandable because he rarely fights. Ward vs. kovalev is going to be fascinating.
 
Bleed Ranger Blue said:
You just seemed to forget how good Ward is, which is understandable because he rarely fights. Ward vs. kovalev is going to be fascinating.
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Yep. I dunno if I forgot about how elite his defense was as opposed to figuring that he'd be rusty and flat footed in one of his first fights back.

Not to mention I expected a completely different game plan execution from Barrera. HBO commentators were alluding to it all night. Just not enough punches. The fights I saw from Barrera he was windmilling constantly.

For some reason he was afraid of getting hurt. He wasn't hurt once, not even the knockdown which I attribute more to his awkward movements and looking like he was trying to back up while getting hit.

He is a very good neutralizer, Ward is. Kovalev vs. him is incredibly intriguing. He won't be able to KO Kovalev. And Kovalev is head and shoulders above any other fighter in the division ATM (not considering Ward, yet). So if Kov loses there will be a rematch, even if it isn't in the contract, since Kov will just become a mandatory again (hypothetically). Twice, where Ward will have to stave off that power.

Definitely gonna buy that one on PPV. Might be the only PPV fight I buy all year, depending on Canelo-ggg negotiations collapsing.
 
Ward will dominate Kovalev to a lopsided decision like he always does. Should be a boring masterpiece.
 
Zamboner said:
Ward will dominate Kovalev to a lopsided decision like he always does. Should be a boring masterpiece.
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Could be. Definitely not ruling that out now after seeing he's back and fighting at the level he did last night.
 
Zamboner said:
Ward will dominate Kovalev to a lopsided decision like he always does. Should be a boring masterpiece.
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I am leaning this way. Besides an ancient Hopkins, Kovalev hasn't fought anyone possessing even an ounce of the craft Ward displays.

That said, has Ward faced anyone with the power of Kovalev? What happens when the most powerful light heavyweight on earth gets to Ward?

This is right up there with the best fight that can made in boxing right now. Tied with GGG vs. Canelo.
 
Bleed Ranger Blue said:
I am leaning this way. Besides an ancient Hopkins, Kovalev hasn't fought anyone possessing even an ounce of the craft Ward displays.

That said, has Ward faced anyone with the power of Kovalev? What happens when the most powerful light heavyweight on earth gets to Ward?

This is right up there with the best fight that can made in boxing right now. Tied with GGG vs. Canelo.
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I really want to see Ward vs Beterbiev next. That'll show us if Ward can withstand the power.
 
Hunter Gathers said:
Oh man. I am SO amped for Canelo vs. GGG.
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Boxing fans deserve this after the Mayweather v. Pacquaio stink bomb. These are 2 guys in their primes, Canelo just coming into his and GGG just leaving his. It took a while to come together but at least it did when both guys were at their best. That rarely happens these days.

GGG should be a slight favorite. He is the bigger man, has more power and, in my opinion, is a better boxer. That said, Canelo seems to be getting better with every outing and was well-advised to put off this fight the year+ it wound up getting pushed back.
 
I wouldn't take much from Canelo's or GGG's last fight. Canelo fought someone who couldn't beat him, meanwhile GGG took a real fight. He almost always tries to take a real fight, but Jacobs was the best fighter to actually get in the ring with him to that point, and the weight advantage for Jacobs skewed the fight, I thought.
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
I wouldn't take much from Canelo's or GGG's last fight. Canelo fought someone who couldn't beat him, meanwhile GGG took a real fight. He almost always tries to take a real fight, but Jacobs was the best fighter to actually get in the ring with him to that point, and the weight advantage for Jacobs skewed the fight, I thought.
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Jacobs is the legitimate #2 middleweight in the world IMO. That was probably the toughest fight of GGG's career and one that he didn't necessarily need to take with the Canelo fight coming down the pike. That was a good scrap. I agree with Canelo's rather weak slate of opponents the last couple of years, but his improvement is evident. He'd seemingly be most susceptible to a guy that could box circles around him. Mayweather took him to school.

What makes this fight great is you won't see anything like that. It's about as guaranteed of a violent encounter as they come.
 
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