Prospect Info: Bowen Byram - D [2019: 4th Overall] Part II: Now serving a side of overconfidence!

[Pokecheque]

I don’t understand what the touchiness is about some of us wanting to take a closer look at Pronman’s list. It’s fun offseason discussion.

I think sometimes in the search for objectivity, we miss what’s right in front of us.

Cale Makar and Quinn Hughes didn’t have good rookie seasons. They were historic, or very close to historic seasons for rookie defenceman. Miro Heiskanen was in the Conn Smyth conversation at 21-years old. Pronman has these players rated 11th, 13th, and 14th on his list of U-23 players. Am I being biased, or is something amiss?

That's fine, no one here said constructive criticism wasn't warranted. But I share his irritation at the real over-the-top angry posts. Like...if Pronman pisses some of these people off THAT much, then maybe they should just try and avoid anything he does. That's not discussion, that's just shouting.

I made a post earlier saying I didn't love his rankings, but it's a list and was bound to lead to disagreements, as all lists do.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

That's fine, no one here said constructive criticism wasn't warranted. But I share his irritation at the real over-the-top angry posts. Like...if Pronman pisses some of these people off THAT much, then maybe they should just try and avoid anything he does. That's not discussion, that's just shouting.

I made a post earlier saying I didn't love his rankings, but it's a list and was bound to lead to disagreements, as all lists do.

Meh... people are going to be over the top from time-to-time, that’s what comes in sports discussions. There’s passion involved and that’s not a bad thing.

I think if you’re replying directly to his article in the comments section you should be more cordial, but I don’t mind a little more push back on an Avs message board. Unless of course we find out that @henchman24 is Pronman, then we should ease up on criticism of the list. But, that can’t be true, since we already know that he is Jarmo Kekalainen.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Meh... people are going to be over the top from time-to-time, that’s what comes in sports discussions. There’s passion involved and that’s not a bad thing.

I think if you’re replying directly to his article in the comments section you should be more cordial, but I don’t mind a little more push back on an Avs message board. Unless of course we find out that @henchman24 is Pronman, then we should ease up on criticism of the list. But, that can’t be true, since we already know that he is Jarmo Kekalainen.

Huh? Henchy is Julien Brisebois!

 

[henchman21]

And here I thought I was Yzerman.

 

[S E P H]

I think Byram has higher upside than Tkachuk, but I would make that trade today.

We would be extremely fortunate for Byram to become an equivalent version of Brady Tkachuk. I don't think you should vote against the Sens scouting staff, they were correct in choosing him over anybody in 2019.

 

[Avs_19]

How about Byram being nearly 60 spots and two tiers above Turcotte? One of our draft darlings from last year, who at one point we were hoping the Hawks wouldn't draft so the Avs could get him.

 

[Balthazar]

We would be extremely fortunate for Byram to become an equivalent version of Brady Tkachuk. I don't think you should vote against the Sens scouting staff, they were correct in choosing him over anybody in 2019.

BuT PoWeR FoRwArDs ArE a MyTh! YoU WiN CuPs WiTh ToE DrAggErs And FlAsHy PlAyErS!!!11

 

[S E P H]

How about Byram being nearly 60 spots and two tiers above Turcotte? One of our draft darlings from last year, who at one point we were hoping the Hawks wouldn't draft so the Avs could get him.

Well, they're way closer in terms of talent than 60 draft spots that's for sure.

 

[S E P H]

BuT PoWeR FoRwArDs ArE a MyTh! YoU WiN CuPs WiTh ToE DrAggErs And FlAsHy PlAyErS!!!11

The problem and I am probably in a very select view that majority of power-forwards aren't very good. You have a shitton of Virtanens' and then one Lucic appears and wrecks havoc. I was a believer in that there are less talented defenders in drafts compared to forwards, but you can say that a legit talented powerforward is even rarer than a legit top-pairing defender (even if he's a winger). A lot of powerforwards tend to lack a critical element in their game that could be talent, skating, IQ, vision, goalscoring, or just overall intelligence. Brady has all those characteristics except maybe top-end speed in the skating department, but so does 90% rest of the NHL neither.

 

[The Abusement Park]

BuT PoWeR FoRwArDs ArE a MyTh! YoU WiN CuPs WiTh ToE DrAggErs And FlAsHy PlAyErS!!!11

They aren’t a myth. Just not integral to winning a cup. Especially considering that almost no power forwards are actually that good right now. Virtanen is a moron. Wilson is very good, but still limited offensively a little, Lucic sucks now, Matthew Tkachuk seems soft for a power forward(but is still very good), Brady is good, but I mean nothing about them is 100% needed to win a cup.

 

[Balthazar]

The problem and I am probably in a very select view that majority of power-forwards aren't very good. You have a shitton of Virtanens' and then one Lucic appears and wrecks havoc. I was a believer in that there are less talented defenders in drafts compared to forwards, but you can say that a legit talented powerforward is even rarer than a legit top-pairing defender (even if he's a winger). A lot of powerforwards tend to lack a critical element in their game that could be talent, skating, IQ, vision, goalscoring, or just overall intelligence. Brady has all those characteristics except maybe top-end speed in the skating department, but so does 90% rest of the NHL neither.

There are very few true PF's in the NHL that can play top 6: Tom Wilson, Josh Anderson, the Tkachuks. That's pretty much it? Micheal Ferland to a lesser degree could play on a 2nd line back when he was healthy.

I don't even know if I'd put Matthew Tkachuk in that category. He's more of a pest than a PF.

These guys are super rare and have a lot of value.

 

[henchman21]

The problem and I am probably in a very select view that majority of power-forwards aren't very good. You have a shitton of Virtanens' and then one Lucic appears and wrecks havoc. I was a believer in that there are less talented defenders in drafts compared to forwards, but you can say that a legit talented powerforward is even rarer than a legit top-pairing defender (even if he's a winger). A lot of powerforwards tend to lack a critical element in their game that could be talent, skating, IQ, vision, goalscoring, or just overall intelligence. Brady has all those characteristics except maybe top-end speed in the skating department, but so does 90% rest of the NHL neither.

This... the elite powerforward in the NHL is probably the rarest piece to grab. They aren't necessary, but they are incredibly valuable.

Also... Ovi is a powerforward. A generational one, but he's the prototype that everybody strives to get.

 

[PAZ]

They aren’t a myth. Just not integral to winning a cup. Especially considering that almost no power forwards are actually that good right now. Virtanen is a moron. Wilson is very good, but still limited offensively a little, Lucic sucks now, Matthew Tkachuk seems soft for a power forward(but is still very good), Brady is good, but I mean nothing about them is 100% needed to win a cup.

There isn't really one type of player that are integral in winning the cup, you just need talent and things to go right at the right time.

 

[henchman21]

There are very few true PF's in the NHL that can play top 6: Tom Wilson, Josh Anderson, the Tkachuks. That's pretty much it? Micheal Ferland to a lesser degree could play on a 2nd line back when he was healthy.

I don't even know if I'd put Matthew Tkachuk in that category. He's more of a pest than a PF.

These guys are super rare and have a lot of value.

Ovi, Benn, Meier, and Kreider are all power forwards. The elite power forwards are rare.... at any one time in the NHL, only a handful of top line versions every exist. A few more 2nd liners than a jumble of physical players that get masqueraded as power forwards.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

What I find ironic is some people having an issue with opinions made by people having an issue with somebody's opinion.

 

[Islay1989]

BuT PoWeR FoRwArDs ArE a MyTh! YoU WiN CuPs WiTh ToE DrAggErs And FlAsHy PlAyErS!!!11

Lol

Amazing response

 

[S E P H]

There isn't really one type of player that are integral in winning the cup, you just need talent and things to go right at the right time.

I think there are types of players which you can win more with than others; an elite and athletic defender at both ends of the ice like Pronger/Hedman, an elite #1 centre that expands his game in the postseason which could be described as Mackinnon/Point, and a goaler who can make saves during momentum changing scenarios.

Now those are way more important than a "winger" powerforward, but it should also be said that Lucic and Byfuglien were integral parts for their Cup winning teams. Hell, when Byfuglien left, he was a big part of how Jets became a playoff contender as well. Blackhawks showed that you don't necessarily need to be "big" to win Cups, but those teams weren't exactly soft either, especially on the back-end.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

We would be extremely fortunate for Byram to become an equivalent version of Brady Tkachuk. I don't think you should vote against the Sens scouting staff, they were correct in choosing him over anybody in 2019.

I said I’d take Tkachuk.

For the Avs, they already have elite talent, it makes more sense to take a guy who’s proven he can play in the NHL.

I like Byram a lot though, and would not be surprised if he eventually surpassed Tkachuk.

 

[Pokecheque]

BuT PoWeR FoRwArDs ArE a MyTh! YoU WiN CuPs WiTh ToE DrAggErs And FlAsHy PlAyErS!!!11

Who actually said this, Strawman Squarepants?

 

[Barklez]

What matters is how does more for his team through his career, not who does more through 2020. And if Byram hits his absolute ceiling you don't have a #1D, you have something better. And the claim that Avs fans decided Byram is the best thing since sliced bread out of thin air is a blatant fallacy. He is considered a top defensive prospect by pretty much every outlet there is, but somehow Avs fans are getting carried away based on nothing? What a hot take.

Also, most people posting here are saying they would be happy with him touring out to be a good #2, which is a pretty damn safe projection. It would be pretty damn disappointing if a guy taken 4th doesn't end up at least a #2D.



Ah, the "power forward". The most absurdly overrated concept in all of hockey. Which Cup winning team in the last 10 years or so had a true PWF on the roster that was a steady contributor? Caps with Wilson? And even he was pretty clearly the 3rd wheel on his line and way down the pecking order after Ovi, Backstrom, Kuz, Carlson, Holtby, Orlov in terms of importance to the Cup run. Furthermore, Brady is good, but if he continues to throw his weight around like he does he'll be done at 30. I mean I find it hilarious people salivate over him and in turn fret about keeping Landeskog because he will fall apart (or has already started to), when Brady plays like a more reckless version of youg Landeskog.

All situation top pairing D >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> power forward who is a winger to boot

I mean I just don’t agree at all. I’d love for him to be that good but I don’t see a ton of offense translating and that’s fine. I do think he’ll end up a solid top pairing dman but I don’t think he’s going to light the world on fire like many here are still hopeful for. I’d rather have a top line power forward

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

There are very few true PF's in the NHL that can play top 6: Tom Wilson, Josh Anderson, the Tkachuks. That's pretty much it? Micheal Ferland to a lesser degree could play on a 2nd line back when he was healthy.

I don't even know if I'd put Matthew Tkachuk in that category. He's more of a pest than a PF.

These guys are super rare and have a lot of value.

Stop, your Habs fan bias is showing way too much around here lately.

 

[McMetal]

BuT PoWeR FoRwArDs ArE a MyTh! YoU WiN CuPs WiTh ToE DrAggErs And FlAsHy PlAyErS!!!11

The last team to win the cup with a high end power forward was the Caps with Wilson and Ovi. Tampa didn't have one, St. Louis didn't have one, arguably Pitt didn't really have one for their runs. They're nice but hardly an essential ingredient to a Cup team.

IMO the whole idea that you need grit and toughness to win a Cup is BS. The Stars were full of that and got swamped by Tampa's raw talent in the finals. There's merit to building a team that way if you want to go all out with it but it's hardly the only option. What you need more than that is just a consistent, top to bottom plan for what kind of team you want to build, and acquire players that fit that blueprint. If you just try to get a hodgepodge of good players you'll never get anywhere.

 

[Hasbro]

BuT PoWeR FoRwArDs ArE a MyTh! YoU WiN CuPs WiTh ToE DrAggErs And FlAsHy PlAyErS!!!11

Size Queen.

 

[JH21]

They aren’t a myth. Just not integral to winning a cup. Especially considering that almost no power forwards are actually that good right now. Virtanen is a moron. Wilson is very good, but still limited offensively a little, Lucic sucks now, Matthew Tkachuk seems soft for a power forward(but is still very good), Brady is good, but I mean nothing about them is 100% needed to win a cup.

Seriously? I'd take each and every one of these guys.

Alex Ovechkin
Gabe Landeskog
Both Tkachuk's
JT Miller
Chris Kreider
Evander Kane
Jamie Benn
Alex Tuch
Ryan Getzlaf
Tom Wilson
Brock Nelson
Josh Anderson
Mark Stone
Max Pacioretty
Valeri Nichushkin
Kevin Hayes
Boone Jenner
Miles Wood
Anders Lee
Ryan Reaves
Brandon Tanev
Tanner Pearson
Jake Virtanen
Dillon Dube
Garnet Hathaway
Austin Watson
Sam Bennett
Blake Coleman
Zach Kassian
Patrick Maroon
Joel Armia
Adam Lowry


When you have them you are harder to play against.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Seriously? I'd take each and every one of these guys.

Alex Ovechkin
Gabe Landeskog
Both Tkachuk's
JT Miller
Chris Kreider
Evander Kane
Jamie Benn
Alex Tuch
Ryan Getzlaf
Tom Wilson
Brock Nelson
Josh Anderson
Mark Stone
Max Pacioretty
Valeri Nichushkin
Kevin Hayes
Boone Jenner
Miles Wood
Anders Lee
Ryan Reaves
Brandon Tanev
Tanner Pearson
Jake Virtanen
Dillon Dube
Garnet Hathaway
Austin Watson
Sam Bennett
Blake Coleman
Zach Kassian
Patrick Maroon
Joel Armia
Adam Lowry


When you have them you are harder to play against.

Some of these guys are just grinders.