- Oct 9, 2012
- 34,302
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Bouchard is pretty much everything Pittsburgh doesn’t need right now. Especially at the value of a lottery pick
Proposal: Bouchard for Karlsson
- Thread starter Mr.Ulanov
- Start date
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Yes, bouchard and ekholm together have been the best pairing in hockey. You want to try and discredit one, instead of crediting both (because it takes more than 1 dman to do this).
Djp
Registered User
BigDaddyLurch
Exiled from Reality
...I'm not "discrediting" anyone, bud; pointing out that Bouchard is an offensive juggernaut who is severely lacking in Defensive Acumen is not a secret nor is it "discrediting" him; it's just a fact...maybe put the Victim Complex aside for a moment...
He clearly isn't that bad if by putting a defensive stalwart beside him you can get fantastic defensive results...I'm not "discrediting" anyone, bud; pointing out that Bouchard is an offensive juggernaut who is severely lacking in Defensive Acumen is not a secret nor is it "discrediting" him; it's just a fact...maybe put the Victim Complex aside for a moment...
bucks_oil
Registered User
- Aug 25, 2005
- 8,934
- 5,332
Ok then...
I'm going to assume that you just didn't know - it is surprising. But rather than just disappear (like most posters) when presented with below, please review and explain how your statement could be true.
| Last two seasons at 5v5 | Expected Goal Share (xGF%) | Actual Goal Share (GF%) |
| Bouchard with Ekholm | 61% | 61% |
| Bouchard without Ekholm | 61% | 56% |
| Bouchard without McD & Drai | 55% | 54% |
| Bouchard without ALL THREE | 60% | 58% |
CheckingLineCenter
Registered User
- Aug 10, 2018
- 9,573
- 10,471
Yeah exactly. I’d obviously do this without the 1st but that said- I’m not sure what swapping Bouchard for Karlsson accomplishes for Pittsburgh.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
Even if the trade was straight up, I bet it would look terrible for the Penguins once Karlsson rebounds to form due to not playing for Mike Sullivan and Bouchard's numbers crash due to playing for Mike Sullivan.
The Penguins would be paying Bouchard like $11 million a year with a full NMC to put up like 40 points for them as they're sitting in the basement of the league, while Karlsson would likely be putting up damn near 100 points again on the Oilers.
BigDaddyLurch
Exiled from Reality
...you just answered yourself and the point in my post; he wouldn't have am Ekholm in Pitt and Pitt doesn't have the possession numbers that the Oil have...hence his fit in Pitt would be a net zero for them...
...again, you can't just take these "fancy stats" as gospel without looking into a number of other different contextual variables that round out the "complete story" of what Bouchard is and what he brings/what he lacks/what his team as a whole brings/what his team as a whole lacks/what said team trading for him requires/lacks/etc/etc/etc...or you end up doing what Dubas did in Toronto/what he's doing in Pitt...stats tell only part of the story, especially since most are severely contextual...so again, this trade makes no sense for Pitt...
Nogatco Rd
Pierre-Luc Dubas
- Apr 3, 2021
- 4,246
- 7,695
First thought is Bouchard isn’t in the same universe as Quinn Hughes… but then I remember that Vancouver series
elmaco
Registered Hockey Fan
- Feb 1, 2017
- 2,734
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Lets make it better, Crosby for Evander Kane. Now that's a hockey trade on par with OP's proposal.
This is provably and demonstrably false regarding Bouchard. But have fun living in lala land.
barkovcanfinnish
Stanley Cup Champs 2024
Bouchard is pretty similar to Karlsson with the caveat that he’s hitting his prime and Karlsson is slowing down
This greatly benefits Pittsburgh and shortens Edmonton’s contending window without really changing their chances.
Even with the 1st added, Edmonton says no
This greatly benefits Pittsburgh and shortens Edmonton’s contending window without really changing their chances.
Even with the 1st added, Edmonton says no
BigDaddyLurch
Exiled from Reality
KrisLetAngry
MrJukeBoy
This just seems like a bad trade for both teams.
I get Bouchard is struggling compared to his great year last year.
I just don't think Penguins are in a position to give up the 2026 1st that has good lottery odds (look at our team bottom 5)
If we had a 3rd team involved where we get something else or if we don't give up that pick I could see something done.
I want to be clear Bouchard is worth more. Just doesn't make sense for Penguins to trade a top tier 1st when we will suck most of Bouchards prime.
I get Bouchard is struggling compared to his great year last year.
I just don't think Penguins are in a position to give up the 2026 1st that has good lottery odds (look at our team bottom 5)
If we had a 3rd team involved where we get something else or if we don't give up that pick I could see something done.
I want to be clear Bouchard is worth more. Just doesn't make sense for Penguins to trade a top tier 1st when we will suck most of Bouchards prime.
Cup or Bust
Registered User
- Oct 17, 2017
- 4,625
- 4,180
I am an Oilers fan and agree with you. He would get absolutely caved in if he played on a weaker team. Imagine if someone like Quinn Hughes got to play with Ekholm and with McDavid 5 on 5, and on the Oilers powerplay? 100 points a season, better defensively, harder working, way better skater. If I was the Oilers I would trade him. No way I would pay him 9 or 10 million a season. Completely one dimensional player.
- Oct 9, 2012
- 34,302
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They get younger but that’s it. Both offensive defenceman with big defensive warts.
FlameChampion
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2011
- 15,147
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Yeah. As frustrating as Bouchard can be, hes also been extremely good in the playoffs over multiple years. Its kind of a weird one. With his game you might expect he would get exposed when the stakes matter but in reality its the opposite.
- Oct 9, 2012
- 34,302
- 33,429
The 1st is far more valuable to Pittsburgh than getting a younger offensive defenceman. Karlsson is still producing at a similar pace with an aging Crosby and Malkin. Lateral move defensively does not warrant a top lottery pick.
jeffff
Registered User
- Oct 4, 2011
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First off...you owe me some coffee because I just spit it all over my computer screen.
Bouchard just came scoring the 3rd most pts in the history of NHL during last years playoffs. Most assists ever!! EKs best is 49th on that same list....9 years ago. Klingberg is 20th, 5 years ago....we just picked him up for free!!
Offensive dman aren't defensive dman. It blows my mind that some don't understand that concept. It is also infinitely easier to be a great defensively than offensively.
In what world is Bouchard worth a 1st and E fukn Karlsson lmfao
Bouchard just came scoring the 3rd most pts in the history of NHL during last years playoffs. Most assists ever!! EKs best is 49th on that same list....9 years ago. Klingberg is 20th, 5 years ago....we just picked him up for free!!
Offensive dman aren't defensive dman. It blows my mind that some don't understand that concept. It is also infinitely easier to be a great defensively than offensively.
In what world is Bouchard worth a 1st and E fukn Karlsson lmfao
BigDaddyLurch
Exiled from Reality
...the flipside is that he is worth that to the Oilers right now, while their window is open...there just aren't many defensemen out there with Bouchard's offensive talent and cannon of a shot...take that away and, even if they could find another offensive RD, does that player bring what Bouchard does to the table??...the kid might have the best slapper since Weber; that's a helluva weapon in itself and keeps defenses & goalies on their toes...
