Bossy vs. Brett Hull

[Gorskyontario]

Okay, that's fair. But is Brett as high as Bossy on an individual level with goal scoring? Bossy just simply never stopped scoring and had consistency that is unrivaled. Hull was great too, we know this, but is it possible he was more dependent on a strong centre over Bossy?

People also seem to ignore or minimize Bossy's playoff goal scoring

 

[overpass]

I did a deep dive on Bossy's playoffs, and the result that stood out to me most was how power play dependent he was outside of Round 1.

Power play dependent or power play dominant?

The Islanders had maybe the best power play of all time, and it was a big factor in their playoff success. Bossy was regularly called out by opponents and media as the most dangerous weapon on their power play and the player opponents tried to shut down. He was one of the most valuable PP players ever.

 

[Staniowski]

Al Arbour used to say he would often have a goal of matching other teams at even-strength, and then they could usually win with their special teams.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Yeah, style of play and team tactics are largely getting ignored or misunderstood here I think. Said another way, those are "facts" not being considered...

 

[Hockey Outsider]

The way I did it was the following:

Thread 'Adjusted point - using elite Canadians player scoring'

Nov 29, 2021

With different previous at adjusting players season, the latest attempt has been the following with those goals:

1) Only use the top players in the league to automatically adjust for scoring distribution change over time, if rules change, style of play, power play habit make scoring more frequent for top 6 or bottom 6 looking only at the top players instead of a league wide average like hockey reference should take care of this.

2) Large enough sample size to not have large noise from outlier

3) Has constant level of talent over time has possible.

So the "strength" of a season...

• MadLuke
• Replies: 12
• Forum: The History of Hockey

• 

I took the average Canadian nhl elite scorer, the number change over time, it was calibrated using canadian nhl age male population and to happen to use the top 18 players in 1967 (the last 06 year so around the average first line at that time)

1986-1990 was using the top 32 Canadian in the league and was under that adjusting judged to be the deepest pool of Canadians players.

Trying to take a large amount to remove season to season noise but elite enough to capture how hard it was for people in the best position (ice time wise, PP, assignment) and good at it to score.

Canadian only felt like a way to have a more constant pool of competitor over time when the league opened up versus before, adjusting for Canadian level of competition is impossible, using Canada born nhl age male population being a bad proxy, but the best available.

Are you able to show best goal-scoring and/or playmaking primes (best 5 or 10 years)?

 

[overpass]

Since scoring as a percentage of team goals was brought up, here's Bossy on the power play for his career, excluding his injury-plagued final season.

Bossy was on the ice for 477 team goals.
Scored 172 G (36%), 175 A (37%), 347 P (73%)

Those numbers are absolutely elite. 36% is comparable to Alex Ovechkin as a goal scorer. 73% is comparable to Gretzky and Lemieux as a point scorer. And that's relative to his team, which was the best of it's era on the power play.

Ovechkin was similar to Bossy as a shooter from the left circle on the best PP of his era, and the best PP goal scorer of his era. But he only scored a point on around 60% of on-ice PP goals. Bossy was much more involved as a playmaker while matching him as a goal scorer.

 

[MadLuke]

Are you able to show best goal-scoring and/or playmaking primes (best 5 or 10 years)?

At the time, I made some best 3, 6, 10 seasons, for points:

Post in thread 'Adjusted point - using elite Canadians player scoring'

Nov 29, 2021

Top 3 season (not necessarily in a row)

Top 20:

fullName	Top 3 seasons total
Wayne Gretzky	620
Mario Lemieux	545
Jaromir Jagr	504
Phil Esposito	496
Connor McDavid	490
Gordie Howe	482
Bobby Orr	464
Leon Draisaitl	447
Stan Mikita	444
Guy Lafleur	433
Evgeni Malkin	424
Alex Ovechkin

[TBODY] ...

• MadLuke

• 

Not consecutive one too

 

[Vilica]

Power play dependent or power play dominant?

The Islanders had maybe the best power play of all time, and it was a big factor in their playoff success. Bossy was regularly called out by opponents and media as the most dangerous weapon on their power play and the player opponents tried to shut down. He was one of the most valuable PP players ever.

I guess it depends on whether or not you want to cast it as a positive or negative aspect of Bossy's scoring.

For his career, he had 739 ESP in 752 games (385 EVG/354 EVA), and 378 PPP (180 PPG/198 PPA), per game averages of 0.98 EVP and 0.50 PPP.
In the playoffs, in 129 games he had 84 ESP and 76 PPP, per game averages to 0.65 EVP and 0.59 PPP.
Absent Round 1, in 89 games he had 52 ESP and 62 PPP, per game averages of 0.58 EVP and 0.70 PPP.

If you just look at the four dynasty years, the Islanders averaged 4.134 goals per game in the regular season, and 4.666 in the playoffs. Here's a table broken down by strength:

	Games	Goals For	EV	PP	SH	GF/G	EV/G	PP/G	SH/G
Regular	320	1323	968	303	52	4.134	3.025	0.947	0.163
Reg Per 80	80	331	242	76	13
Playoff	78	364	242	99	23	4.667	3.103	1.269	0.295
PO Per 80	80	373	248	102	23

In those years, Bossy had 312 ESP and 162 PPP in 313 games (0.996 and 0.517 per game, respectively, very close to his career averages), and 53 ESP and 58 PPP in 72 games in the playoffs (0.736 and 0.805 per game). He averaged about the same PPG, his mix was just different. As you can see from the per-80 numbers, the extra goals for the Islanders come from special teams, not so much even strength (depending on rounding its either 102 PPG and 23 SHG, or 101 PPG and 24 SHG, for 25-26 extra PPG and 10-11 extra SHG, compared to 6 extra EVG).

To give a series example, in the 79-80 finals against Philadelphia, the Islanders were outscored 10-19 at even strength in the series, but scored 15 power play goals in 6 games (they also had a shorthanded goal, to Philadelphia's 6 power play goals). Bossy had 1 even strength assist and 10 power play points (4 PPG/6 PPA) to lead the Islanders in scoring with 11 points. Is that a disappointing series because Bossy only had 1 even strength point in 6 games, or a good one because his 10 power play points contributed to the Islanders winning in 6 games?

Another example is the entire 80-81 run. In the first round against an awful Toronto team (-45 goal differential), the Islanders outscored them 20-4 in 3 games, Bossy had 10 points, 6 even stength, 4 power play. In the second round against Edmonton (+1 goal differential), the Islanders outscored Edmonton 29-20, including 14-11 at even strength, and also scored 13 power play goals in 6 games, with 2 shorthanded goals. Bossy had 2 even strength goals, 2 power play goals, and 7 power play assists. In the third round against the Rangers (-5 goal differential), the Islanders outscored them 22-8 in the sweep, Bossy had 1 even strength goal, 4 power play goals, and 1 power play assist. In the finals against Minnesota (+28), the Islanders outscored them 26-16, including 19-10 at even strength. Bossy had 3 even strength goals, 3 even strength assists, 1 power play goal and 1 power play assist. Was Bossy an even strength powerhouse due to scoring 12 ESP in 8 games against Toronto and Minnesota, or a disappointment because he had 3 ESP in 10 games against Edmonton and New York?