Trade: [BOS/LAD] Mookie Betts and David Price for Alex Verdugo, Jeter Downs, and Connor Wong

[Jumptheshark]

This has to be one of the worst trades in MLB history right?

likely but the sox have Nicholas Judice (minors), Richard Fitts and Greg Weissert. in their system from flipping Alex Verdugo to the Yankees

In my lifetime(53)

Randy Johnson,with Gene Harris and Brian Holman to the Seattle Mariners for a player to be named later and Mark Langston. The Seattle Mariners sent Mike Campbell (July 31, 1989) to the Montreal Expos to complete the trade.

IS the worse one from me. When Langston retired he gave an interview saying he was trade to Montreal after telling Seattle that he was going to sign somewhere in California in the off season. HE added he was told the Montreal was not told this at the time of the trade but gave Montreal an idea of what he wanted and Montreal offered him the contract and he then told them of his plans. Montreal was not happy

 

[Halladay]

He wanted to stay and the moronic thing is they paid Devers about what they found have paid him. Don't trade a top 3 player on baseball unless he doesn't want to resign, which he did.

 

[Voight]

likely but the sox have Nicholas Judice (minors), Richard Fitts and Greg Weissert. in their system from flipping Alex Verdugo to the Yankees

In my lifetime(53)

Randy Johnson,with Gene Harris and Brian Holman to the Seattle Mariners for a player to be named later and Mark Langston. The Seattle Mariners sent Mike Campbell (July 31, 1989) to the Montreal Expos to complete the trade.

IS the worse one from me. When Langston retired he gave an interview saying he was trade to Montreal after telling Seattle that he was going to sign somewhere in California in the off season. HE added he was told the Montreal was not told this at the time of the trade but gave Montreal an idea of what he wanted and Montreal offered him the contract and he then told them of his plans. Montreal was not happy

The thing is with trades like these, the teams dont know that the player they're giving up is going to be as good as they become. Expos didn't know Johnson would become one fo the best pitchers of all time.

Red Sox traded Betts in his prime, they knew exactly how good he was. Arguably worse IMO.

 

[Jumptheshark]

The thing is with trades like these, the teams dont know that the player they're giving up is going to be as good as they become. Expos didn't know Johnson would become one fo the best pitchers of all time.

Red Sox traded Betts in his prime, they knew exactly how good he was. Arguably worse IMO.

No the expos knew what they had but they didn't think he would be that good. He had the speed but he was a bit wild and the did not have the ability to help hom find the strike zone.

 

[McGarnagle]

I don't know

Yes, it's bad, but put it in context and it's nowhere near Ruth bad. Mookie had one year left on his contract, which ended up being a 60 game season in which the Red Sox had several pitching injuries and a lame duck interim manager with Cora suspended for his role in the Astros scandal, a year they basically punted. I 100% believe Mookie did not want to be in Boston, despite his PR spin after the fact, and would've walked in free agency anyway. And a major component was clearing Price's contract as well.

For all that they got some decent production out of Verdugo for 4 years (and sold him on for some pitching prospects), and a reliably average catcher in Wong. Downs was a total bust, I partially blame COVID disrupting the minor league schedule for two seasons for his and many other prospects' underdevelopment.

Should've got more, no doubt. But people act like they had Betts under long term control and sold him for nothing. They only had him for one more year and he would've walked for nothing, and they got at least some usable parts out of it. If I were John Henry I would've moved heaven and earth and offered as much money as they could to try to get him to sign an extension, but once they committed to trading him and Price, they got some value for the asset.

 

[Voight]

No the expos knew what they had but they didn't think he would be that good. He had the speed but he was a bit wild and the did not have the ability to help hom find the strike zone.

Not exactly. Johnson had pitched less than 10 games for them, they didn't exactly know they were trading a future Cy Young winner / one of the best pitchers of all time.

 

[trojansoilers]

In my lifetime(53)

Randy Johnson,with Gene Harris and Brian Holman to the Seattle Mariners for a player to be named later and Mark Langston. The Seattle Mariners sent Mike Campbell (July 31, 1989) to the Montreal Expos to complete the trade.

IS the worse one from me. When Langston retired he gave an interview saying he was trade to Montreal after telling Seattle that he was going to sign somewhere in California in the off season. HE added he was told the Montreal was not told this at the time of the trade but gave Montreal an idea of what he wanted and Montreal offered him the contract and he then told them of his plans. Montreal was not happy

For me it was the Dodgers dealing Pedro Martinez for Delino DeShields
It wasn't that Pedro hadn't emerged yet also. I remember he put together a pretty good rookie season prior to getting dealt.

 

[GKJ]

Babe Ruth wasn’t even a trade. That was a straight sale. An awful one, but it’s not like that was done to make a baseball trade.

Pedro and Randy Johnson were no doubt all-time bad, but they also were moved along. Also were not in their primes.

 

[Unholy Diver]

Babe Ruth wasn’t even a trade. That was a straight sale. An awful one, but it’s not like that was done to make a baseball trade.

Pedro and Randy Johnson were no doubt all-time bad, but they also were moved along. Also were not in their primes.

Yeah, that is a big difference, most of the other lopsided ones were a prospect or not fully bloomed star who blew up long term, Smoltz for Doyle Alexander would fall in there as well


I'll throw one out that can't officially be judged yet, but I am fairly certain will at least be in the conversation when all is said and done

The Pirates trade RHP Paul Skenes for ???, ???, and ???

 

[Voight]

Yeah, that is a big difference, most of the other lopsided ones were a prospect or not fully bloomed star who blew up long term, Smoltz for Doyle Alexander would fall in there as well


I'll throw one out that can't officially be judged yet, but I am fairly certain will at least be in the conversation when all is said and done

The Pirates trade RHP Paul Skenes for ???, ???, and ???

The Gerrit Cole trade is the perfect template, Pirates trade their star pitcher and are left with no long term pieces. Rinse & repeat.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

I guess the Archer trade to Pittsburgh doesn't quite count because he was the 'big star' going the otherway but good god that trade was horrible for the Pirates.

Glasnow, Baz, Meadows for Archer who was terrible for the Buccos over parts of 2 seasons

 

[blueandgoldguy]

sure you would want way more in a return for the betts trade. but jeter downs was regarded as a promising prospect at that time. also connor wong is not that bad. there have been trades way worse than this one.

Such as?

 

[frontsfan2005]

No the expos knew what they had but they didn't think he would be that good. He had the speed but he was a bit wild and the did not have the ability to help hom find the strike zone.

Johnson was turning 26 in the season he was traded to the Mariners. He did show flashes of being a very good pitcher, but overall, he was very wild and inconsistent and very much a project.

Check out his walk totals in the minors:
1985: 24 BB, 21 SO in 27.1 innings for Jamestown in the NYPL (A-)
1986: 94 BB, 133 SO in 119.2 innings for West Palm Beach in FSL (A)
1987: 128 BB, 163 SO in 140 innings for Jacksonville in the SL (AA)
1988: 72 BB, 111 SO in 113.1 innings pitched for Indianapolis in American Association (AAA)
1988: 7 BB, 25 SO in 26 innings pitched for Montreal
1989: 9 BB, 17 SO in 18 innings for Indianapolis
1989: 26 BB, 26 SO in 29.2 innings for Montreal

They traded him for Mark Langston, who was one of the top pitchers in baseball in 1989. Langston was also only three years older than Johnson (1960 vs. 1963 birthdate).

No one would have predicted that Johnson would not only become one of the best pitchers in MLB history, but also that he would pitch until he was 45 years old.

Unfortunately for the Expos, Langston had no intentions of resigning there. He wasn't all that happy being traded to Montreal, as the Mets were rumoured to be heavily interested in him too. To his credit, Langston pitched extremely well with the Expos (12-9, 2.39 ERA) in a season where the team fell short, then moved to his home state of California to continue his career in 1990 to a five-year, $16 million contract, which made him the highest paid player in baseball.

#CardCorner: 1990 Fleer Mark Langston | Baseball Hall of Fame

baseballhall.org

 

[FiveTacos]

They traded him for Mark Langston, who was one of the top pitchers in baseball in 1989. Langston was also only three years older than Johnson (1960 vs. 1963 birthdate).

I liked Langston a lot ... an all-star and a strikeout leader himself. Just about every team in the league would have tried to acquire him if they could have, and he'd have been #1 on all but a few teams. He was legit.

He did seem a bit wild at times for an ace though. Didn't he once load the bases on 3 walks, and then got 3 SOs to get out of it? Nasty stuff when he was on though.

 

[frontsfan2005]

I liked Langston a lot ... an all-star and a strikeout leader himself. Just about every team in the league would have tried to acquire him if they could have, and he'd have been #1 on all but a few teams. He was legit.

He did seem a bit wild at times for an ace though. Didn't he once load the bases on 3 walks, and then got 3 SOs to get out of it? Nasty stuff when he was on though.

Langston was an excellent pitcher. I was reading a few articles about him in his Mariners days and the general consensus was that he was an elite pitcher on a bad team who unfortunately pitched in a hitters ballpark (Kingdome). Of course, in his first start with the Angels, it was against Seattle and he promptly threw seven no-hit innings before being pulled from the game.

It's surprising that he only received Cy Young votes twice (1987 - 5th, and 1991 - 6th) in his career.

Langston's 1993 season is very underrated - no Cy Young votes despite having the second highest WAR among pitchers (8.5) in the American League.

He definitely was one of the top pitchers in the league from 1987-1993. He struggled in his first season with California in 1990, but rebounded very nicely for the next three seasons. He did cut down his walks after joining the Angels and he was also a seven-time Gold Glove winner in his career.

As for loading the bases with three walks, followed by three strikeouts - I'm not sure when it was, but it seems like something he would do.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Johnson moved quickly up the minors with the expos. The problem was he had trouble controlling his fast ball and was working on a 2nd and 3rd pitch.

Expos knew what they had but not the coaching to develop him the right way

 

[Voight]

Johnson moved quickly up the minors with the expos. The problem was he had trouble controlling his fast ball and was working on a 2nd and 3rd pitch.

Expos knew what they had but not the coaching to develop him the right way

Not really. Sure they figured he might be a good pitcher, but he wasn't exactly a Strasburg level prospect. They didn't think he was going to win multiple Cy Youngs, be a playoff beast and an easy first ballot HOF pick.

I guess the Archer trade to Pittsburgh doesn't quite count because he was the 'big star' going the otherway but good god that trade was horrible for the Pirates.

Glasnow, Baz, Meadows for Archer who was terrible for the Buccos over parts of 2 seasons

Man, I forgot about that. What a mess for the Pirates.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

 

[Unholy Diver]

Another guy the Pirates traded away, drafted him in Jan of 84, he had a very nice year in Low A, then they traded him that December to the Yankees with Dale Berra, and Al Pulido for 19 games of Tim Foli and about 100 games out of Steve Kemp, he might have been a nice bat in the lineup with Bonds, Bonilla, and the gang

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Quote aged great. 2 championships, stacking MVP caliber seasons and likely goes into Cooperstown as a Doyer.

 

[Voight]

Quote aged great. 2 championships, stacking MVP caliber seasons and likely goes into Cooperstown as a Doyer.

Still remember John Henry making Dan Shaugnessy write a hit piece on Betts after the trade, questioning his overall skill and if hes worth the money.

Given next year is his 6th in LA (matching Boston; in terms of fulls seasons tho hes now played five for each of them), I think its near guaranteed he'll go in as a Dodger even if he doesn't win an MVP there.