Boris Valabik - Chara or Quintal

[Behn Wilson]

Boris Valabik - Chara or Quintal?

The more I read about 6'7" Boris Valabik, the more he intrigues me. I love his size but Ive seeeeeen him compared to Chara which would make any team desire him.

But then the Redline Report said he was similar in style to Stephane Quintal and that scares me about him. Can those who have seen him firsthand chime in on what they expect to come of him in the NHL. Thansk.

 

[Alex Kovalev]

Quintal if anything.

Ive seen him play this year in Kitchener and I didnt like what I saw. I expected a lot much more out of him.

McGrath on the otherhand I liked. He's not mindboggling to watch. But he seems very solid.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

The more I read about 6'7" Boris Valabik, the more he intrigues me. I love his size but Ive seeeeeen him compared to Chara which would make any team desire him.

But then the Redline Report said he was similar in style to Stephane Quintal and that scares me about him.

Hmmm... scares you?

Quintal has over 1000 games of NHL service under his belt. In his career, he has averaged around 20 points on average per season. he rounded his game with physical presence and stood up for his teammates.

This will be a successful draft if 5 or 6 defensemen out of the whole 2004 crop reach that level. Quintal probably ranks around that, something like 5th or 6th best of his draft year behind a few guys like Desjardins, Schneider and Wesley for sure (some of them taken much later than him) and then I think there is a drop in quality. You've got guys like Marchment and Richardson, who had careers that were fairly similar to Quintal.

What are you scared of exactly?

Realistically, the kind of career Quintal has had is worthy of a pick in the 10-30 range most draft years. As in, 10th to 30th best player of that draft year. Sounds about the range people expect valabik to be picked up.

Anybody who is thinking he is the next Chara would be better off drafting him top 10, IMO.

I think people expect WAY too much out of prospects and I'll use your post as evidence of that (like we needed any around here).

 

[D.Legwand]

The only thing that scares me is how many years is it going to take him to get to the NHL? Sure he is a monster, but can he skate? I can see him being a decent defensemen but not a top 4 type of guy. People like to drool over size and nastiness and he has a lot of it.

 

[MS]

Realistically, the kind of career Quintal has had is worthy of a pick in the 10-30 range most draft years. As in, 10th to 30th best player of that draft year. Sounds about the range people expect valabik to be picked up.

Anybody who is thinking he is the next Chara would be better off drafting him top 10, IMO.

To take it a step further, by my reasoning if you redo the top 30 picks in 1987, Quintal is the 8th player selected. And that's rating him behind the similar Richardson and Marchment. So if someone thinks he's the next Quintal he should go in the top 10 by that rationale ...

For a more realistic idea of his downside, one should probably look at Libor Ustrnul (42nd, 2000), another Czech defender who suited up in the OHL. 6'5" 230 lbs, 200+ PIMS and similar point totals in his draft year to Valabic ... to this point he hasn't even established himself as a regular AHLer. Or guys like Sami Helenius or Wade Belak who ended up as fringy 7th defenders/enforcers. It doesn't matter how big and tough you are, or even how well you can skate, if you're lacking basic decision-making and puck-movement skills it kills you when you turn pro. I haven't seen enough of Valabic to comment really accurately, but from everything I can gather, there's certainly a danger there ...

Every mention I see of Valabic has Chara mentioned in the same sentence, which isn't really very fair. The odds he will make that sort of impact are pretty small and he shouldn't have that sort of expectation placed on him or be viewed as a disappointment if he can't reach that level. If he has a Bryan Allen-type development curve and takes 4-5 years to develop into a solid, physical #3 or #4 defender, that would be a very pleasant return for a #15-20 overall pick and whoever takes him would be thrilled.

 

[montreal]

Quintal if anything.

Ive seen him play this year in Kitchener and I didnt like what I saw. I expected a lot much more out of him.

McGrath on the otherhand I liked. He's not mindboggling to watch. But he seems very solid.

I had the opposite view. I was impressed by Valabik. Very physical, aggressive, decent skating for his size. On the other hand, McGrath left me wondering how on earth he was once considered a top 10 pick. He is a great skater, and seems to have good hands, but shyed away from contact and stuck to the outside mostly.

Valabik I'd expect to be a top 20 pick, McGrath in the 20-40 range.

 

[BLACKBURN]

I get scared as well, I think the guy is very similar to Kudroc from what ive heard, big, huge pims, played juniors in na, slovak. I would take him in the 20's, no sooner.

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

Interestingly, I have an acquaintaince who is a scout for the Hawks and I got a chance to ask him about a few players over a beer. He loves Valabik - ranking him 5th overall. Says his upside is at least in the relm of a Chara or D. Hatcher (he's better than Chara was at the same age), and that his downside really isn't that bad. Said his interview was the best of any prospect they spoke too. He had him top 10, but moved him up to #5 after the interview saying he firmly believed the guy has was it takes (in his mind) to improve his game.

He thinks Malkin and Ovechkin are both franchise players - says the Hawks are pissed they missed on them. Said his vote at their recent scouting meeting was Barker, and that's likely who who they'll go for. He spoke highly of Voloshenko, Lisin and Lyamin - has them all very high. Compared Sindel to Havlat, with the same questions Havlat had at the same age - can he handle the physical play.

Wouldn't take Schremp or Radulov high. Thinks Schremp is soft, even though he's a hockey rat. Thinks Radulov is a head case "like his brother" - who the Hawks happen to have right now. Called him a flake and said he hopes someone else takes him "so we don't have to". Said he liked Voleshenko better. Loves the three Fins. Speaking the highest of Korpikoski. Also likes Bolland a lot.

Amongst goalies, he has them ranked Montoya, Shantz, Schwartz, Schneider then Peters. Doesn't think much of Dubynk at all.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Interestingly, I have an acquaintaince who is a scout for the Hawks and I got a chance to ask him about a few players over a beer. He loves Valabik - ranking him 5th overall. Says his upside is at least in the relm of a Chara or D. Hatcher (he's better than Chara was at the same age), and that his downside really isn't that bad. Said his interview was the best of any prospect they spoke too. He had him top 10, but moved him up to #5 after the interview saying he firmly believed the guy has was it takes (in his mind) to improve his game.

He thinks Malkin and Ovechkin are both franchise players - says the Hawks are pissed they missed on them. Said his vote at their recent scouting meeting was Barker, and that's likely who who they'll go for. He spoke highly of Voloshenko, Lisin and Lyamin - has them all very high. Compared Sindel to Havlat, with the same questions Havlat had at the same age - can he handle the physical play.

Wouldn't take Schremp or Radulov high. Thinks Schremp is soft, even though he's a hockey rat. Thinks Radulov is a head case "like his brother" - who the Hawks happen to have right now. Called him a flake and said he hopes someone else takes him "so we don't have to". Said he liked Voleshenko better. Loves the three Fins. Speaking the highest of Korpikoski. Also likes Bolland a lot.

Amongst goalies, he has them ranked Montoya, Shantz, Schwartz, Schneider then Peters. Doesn't think much of Dubynk at all.

Thanks for the insights. Your comments really show how many differant views scouts have. It's really not an exact science at all. Chicago's draft tendancies have interested me over the past few years, mainly because Mike Smithkov was calling the shots. With the hockey market in Chicago down the tubes, I think they need to draft someone that can get the locals excited again, and some "no name" Russian isn't going to do it. I don't think Cam Barker is either.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Interestingly, I have an acquaintaince who is a scout for the Hawks and I got a chance to ask him about a few players over a beer. He loves Valabik - ranking him 5th overall. Says his upside is at least in the relm of a Chara or D. Hatcher (he's better than Chara was at the same age), and that his downside really isn't that bad. Said his interview was the best of any prospect they spoke too. He had him top 10, but moved him up to #5 after the interview saying he firmly believed the guy has was it takes (in his mind) to improve his game.

Just a clarification but did your friend convince the rest of the Hawks' brass that the guy was worthy of being #5 or is he alone in that opinion as of right now?

Also, did he talk to you about how they meet and how they take the collective information and opinions of all scout to come up with their final order?

Interesting stuff!

You're a lucky SOB! Wish I knew firsthand a NHL scout.

 

[buddy]

Interestingly, I have an acquaintaince who is a scout for the Hawks and I got a chance to ask him about a few players over a beer. He loves Valabik - ranking him 5th overall. Says his upside is at least in the relm of a Chara or D. Hatcher (he's better than Chara was at the same age), and that his downside really isn't that bad. Said his interview was the best of any prospect they spoke too. He had him top 10, but moved him up to #5 after the interview saying he firmly believed the guy has was it takes (in his mind) to improve his game.

He thinks Malkin and Ovechkin are both franchise players - says the Hawks are pissed they missed on them. Said his vote at their recent scouting meeting was Barker, and that's likely who who they'll go for. He spoke highly of Voloshenko, Lisin and Lyamin - has them all very high. Compared Sindel to Havlat, with the same questions Havlat had at the same age - can he handle the physical play.

Wouldn't take Schremp or Radulov high. Thinks Schremp is soft, even though he's a hockey rat. Thinks Radulov is a head case "like his brother" - who the Hawks happen to have right now. Called him a flake and said he hopes someone else takes him "so we don't have to". Said he liked Voleshenko better. Loves the three Fins. Speaking the highest of Korpikoski. Also likes Bolland a lot.

Amongst goalies, he has them ranked Montoya, Shantz, Schwartz, Schneider then Peters. Doesn't think much of Dubynk at all.

I bet your friend is thrilled that you are posting what he told you on the net. Very trustworthy.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

I bet your friend is thrilled that you are posting what he told you on the net. Very trustworthy.

Something needs to be said here.

If you work professionally for any organization, hockey or not, it is your responsibility if you decide to share information or not with people you know. Been there, and usually I prefer to keep my mouth shut unless I am talking to family and EXTREMELY close, dearest friends.

This Hawk scout decided to speak out. That's his prerogative and whether the Hawks brass cares or not remains to be seen.

It should be pointed out that in hockey, information leaks are common place, a dime a dozen. We sometimes know trades in advance, who will get fired, hired, signed, put on waivers.

THN is chock full of scout quotes on each prospects. The sole difference (and if I was Dr.Sens I would not have done that) is that he partly named the source, a Hawk scout. Then again, Dr. Sens is not a reporter as far as I know and probably did not feel he had to abide to journalism ethics.

You also have to wonder how big of a deal it is. I fail to see how the friend would be so upset, or the Hawks for that matter. What's going to happen? Someone from the Sabres brass is going browse this forum, see this and "steal" Valabik because some anonymous guy claims he knows a scout from the Hawks brass?

They're going to **** up their own rankings for that?

Nope. Not gonna happen.

In fact, even if the Hawks GM himself claimed loudly that they have Valabik 5th overall, it wouldn't change a thing. Little was revealed that will be damaging here. In fact, out of all the hockey leaks, there's rarely anything that seems to bother organizations. They know it is part of this business.

 

[Behn Wilson]

Hmmm... scares you?

Quintal has over 1000 games of NHL service under his belt. In his career, he has averaged around 20 points on average per season. he rounded his game with physical presence and stood up for his teammates.

This will be a successful draft if 5 or 6 defensemen out of the whole 2004 crop reach that level. Quintal probably ranks around that, something like 5th or 6th best of his draft year behind a few guys like Desjardins, Schneider and Wesley for sure (some of them taken much later than him) and then I think there is a drop in quality. You've got guys like Marchment and Richardson, who had careers that were fairly similar to Quintal.

What are you scared of exactly?

Realistically, the kind of career Quintal has had is worthy of a pick in the 10-30 range most draft years. As in, 10th to 30th best player of that draft year. Sounds about the range people expect valabik to be picked up.

Anybody who is thinking he is the next Chara would be better off drafting him top 10, IMO.

I think people expect WAY too much out of prospects and I'll use your post as evidence of that (like we needed any around here).

Vlad, I guess you never saw Quintal play for the Hawks, he flat out sucked. He was slow afoot and got skated around like a pylon on a consistent basis. He fought and handled Oliwa in his first game but after that he was disinterested in the physical aspect of the game. He was also a locker room cancer. he was continuosly berating then Hawk rookie Steve McCarthy when he would make a mistake, literally yelling at him on the ice. The next year when we got Odelein McCarthy said how nice it was to have a veteran that helped him instead of the other way around. Though Odeleins skills were on the decline at the time, he was a great mentor for McCarthy and character wise he was the complete opposite of Quintal as a Hawk.

That is what scares me about Quintal, he was public enemy #1 when he was a Hawk and we couldnt get rid of him fast enough. Hawks fans were ecstatic when he was dumped.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Vlad, I guess you never saw Quintal play for the Hawks, he flat out sucked. He was slow afoot and got skated around like a pylon on a consistent basis. He fought and handled Oliwa in his first game but after that he was disinterested in the physical aspect of the game. He was also a locker room cancer. he was continuosly berating then Hawk rookie Steve McCarthy when he would make a mistake, literally yelling at him on the ice. The next year when we got Odelein McCarthy said how nice it was to have a veteran that helped him instead of the other way around. Though Odeleins skills were on the decline at the time, he was a great mentor for McCarthy and character wise he was the complete opposite of Quintal as a Hawk.

That is what scares me about Quintal, he was public enemy #1 when he was a Hawk and we couldnt get rid of him fast enough. Hawks fans were ecstatic when he was dumped.

Yeah, after I posted I realized you were looking at Quintal from a Hawks perspective and figured your comments came from that.

However, I invite you to check out the 86 (or is it 87?) draft and look through it. Then check out other years as well and you'll see a Quintal career is outstanding for a guy drafted out of the top 10 (and much better than several players drafted top 10 as well).

I will say that I know where your comments are coming from, as Stephane made a mistake when he conducted himself like a greedy, selfish ass and bolted for New-York. From that point on, he was miserable and things didn't get better in Chicago. However, when looking at his whole career, I find it very impressive. He has had staying power and has been a nice enough contributer in his career.

If Valabik does what Quintal did, he is a very good player. Not saying he can't. He could be better for all I know. I know very little of him. I just know looking at past drafts, Quintal is a compliment, not an insult for guys rated 10-30.

 

[Epsilon]

I watched Chara first hand when he played here in Prince George during 94-95, and I can tell you from what I have seen and heard and Valabik, he compares very favorably with Chara at similar stages in their development. Chara was raw and awkward with little hockey sense, but he had that special "it" in him that gave you the sense he could be a star in the NHL. Everyone in the WHL was scared to death of him and the fans here were just wild for him. Valabik might actually be better along in terms of hockey sense, positioning, and other factors that can plague massive defensemen.

 

[Behn Wilson]

Yeah, after I posted I realized you were looking at Quintal from a Hawks perspective and figured your comments came from that.

However, I invite you to check out the 86 (or is it 87?) draft and look through it. Then check out other years as well and you'll see a Quintal career is outstanding for a guy drafted out of the top 10 (and much better than several players drafted top 10 as well).

I will say that I know where your comments are coming from, as Stephane made a mistake when he conducted himself like a greedy, selfish ass and bolted for New-York. From that point on, he was miserable and things didn't get better in Chicago. However, when looking at his whole career, I find it very impressive. He has had staying power and has been a nice enough contributer in his career.

If Valabik does what Quintal did, he is a very good player. Not saying he can't. He could be better for all I know. I know very little of him. I just know looking at past drafts, Quintal is a compliment, not an insult for guys rated 10-30.

I think Quintal is one of those players that looks better on paper (but as one of the Sutters once said paper is best used to wipe your....)

I think the Rangers vastly overpaid him and I couldnt see why. I was never a big fan of his and a lot of people say he went downhill once he went to the Rangers. I think he was never that good to begin with, a #5 or 6 dman with a physical presence and thats it.

Like many of their contracts it was simply the Rangers overpaying for a run of the mill player.

I wouldnt draft a horses arse like Quintal with the last pick in the draft.


EDIT: If you didnt know I really HATE Quintal (as does every Hawk fan)

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Interestingly, I have an acquaintaince who is a scout for the Hawks and I got a chance to ask him about a few players over a beer. He loves Valabik - ranking him 5th overall. Says his upside is at least in the relm of a Chara or D. Hatcher (he's better than Chara was at the same age), and that his downside really isn't that bad. Said his interview was the best of any prospect they spoke too. He had him top 10, but moved him up to #5 after the interview saying he firmly believed the guy has was it takes (in his mind) to improve his game.

He thinks Malkin and Ovechkin are both franchise players - says the Hawks are pissed they missed on them. Said his vote at their recent scouting meeting was Barker, and that's likely who who they'll go for. He spoke highly of Voloshenko, Lisin and Lyamin - has them all very high. Compared Sindel to Havlat, with the same questions Havlat had at the same age - can he handle the physical play.

Wouldn't take Schremp or Radulov high. Thinks Schremp is soft, even though he's a hockey rat. Thinks Radulov is a head case "like his brother" - who the Hawks happen to have right now. Called him a flake and said he hopes someone else takes him "so we don't have to". Said he liked Voleshenko better. Loves the three Fins. Speaking the highest of Korpikoski. Also likes Bolland a lot.

Amongst goalies, he has them ranked Montoya, Shantz, Schwartz, Schneider then Peters. Doesn't think much of Dubynk at all.

I'm high on all those players you mentioned. Maybe I could be a scout.

Seriously, thanks for posting that. Gives some good insight. I really hope Korpikoski is still around at 31, but it's looking less and less possible.

 

[Behn Wilson]

I'm high on all those players you mentioned. Maybe I could be a scout.

Seriously, thanks for posting that. Gives some good insight. I really hope Korpikoski is still around at 31, but it's looking less and less possible.

You have to take into account that most of the old time scouts on the Hawks from the Michael Dumas staff are flat out incompetent. Is this the same scout that was in on the Adam Munro as a first round pick choice selection?

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Dan Focht.

Personally I don't see him coming anywhere close to his potential.

 

[me2]

In fact, even if the Hawks GM himself claimed loudly that they have Valabik 5th overall, it wouldn't change a thing. Little was revealed that will be damaging here. In fact, out of all the hockey leaks, there's rarely anything that seems to bother organizations. They know it is part of this business.

Outside of calling Radulov a headcase there isn't much in there that hadn't been speculated on. Having it openly confirmed by a scout is nice but not earth shattering. The only bit that is a problem is calling Radulov a headcase, I wouldn't be doing that in public ALONG with nameingthe scout as a Hawk. It could create more problems than its worth.

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

Just a clarification but did your friend convince the rest of the Hawks' brass that the guy was worthy of being #5 or is he alone in that opinion as of right now?

Also, did he talk to you about how they meet and how they take the collective information and opinions of all scout to come up with their final order?

Interesting stuff!

You're a lucky SOB! Wish I knew firsthand a NHL scout.

He stated he had Valabik 5th on "his" list, and it didn't seem that relevant to them given they don't have another pick until the 2nd round (he said they have three). It didn't sound like that was the consensus of the scouting staff necessarily. I actually didn't ask too much about what the other Hawks scouts felt (wish I did come to think of it). He's positive Valabik will be gone by their next pick, so the ranking didn't sound that relevant to them, although he did mention - just pure conjecture on his part over a beer - that he wouldn't hesitate to package Vorobiev and one of the 2nd's for a chance at Valabik. That was just theoretical though - he was just saying if you really believe in a guy, go after him.

Another interesting note - he mentioned they gave Dustin Byfuglien an ultimatum to show up at camp at 240 or don't bother showing up at all. He weighed in at 260 at the end of the season, and was up to 270 a little while after that. Says his skills and size package have NHL written all over them, but they'll know this summer whether he has a future with the Hawks.

In terms of goalies, he felt they're loaded in net (which was a surprise to me) with Leighton, Anderson, Crawford, Brodeur and someone else. Didn't see goalie as a priority, but said you couldn't rule it out.

In terms of betraying his confidence, that is pretty laughable. I wouldn't name his name, although I suspect some in the know could possibly guess who it is. But really, that doesn't matter. Professional scouts may peruse this board every once in a while, but a message board like this is not exactly reliable for trying to project what another team is going to do. And it's not like this scout has the final say anyway. The reality is he couldn't give a flying hoot whether I posted this or other information. As if pro scouts are now perusing these boards in hopes of getting a scoop - all the scouts talk all the time, and there are better and easier ways to find out what another team is up to then cruising HFboards. He didn't hestitate to say he loved Valabik, and I suspect I'm not the only person he's told that too. We just chatted a little longer because he's knows I'm a bit of a prospect hound/ scout-wannabe. The funny thing is, he kept getting the names mixed up of the Europeans. I felt like a reporter talking to Pat Quinn.

In terms of calling Radulov a head case in public, yeah maybe I should have held that back, but I really doubt even if Radulov's camp found out about this post and believed it, it would make much of a big deal. It's one scout's take, and thrown out on a message board full of tall tales. Hardly damaging to his reputation.

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

You have to take into account that most of the old time scouts on the Hawks from the Michael Dumas staff are flat out incompetent. Is this the same scout that was in on the Adam Munro as a first round pick choice selection?

Well, you may laugh at this, but he did mention Munro and didn't write him off, so he might have been part of that decision. I know he was big on Bell when they signed him, and I also know he spoke highly of Ruutu before that draft. But he said picks like Wisniewski "keep him employed". I don't think he was part of the Smith pro-Russian mindset at all.

The one thing I remember from 1999, was when I asked him about Lundmark, Kelman and Saprykin, he described Lundmark as the best of the three "sure fire NHL player", Saprykin as a skilled NHL calibre player, but with some issues and risks, and that Kelman simply couldn't skate that well and was overated. In hindsight, that's pretty solid. I ended up taking Kelman in my fantasy draft late in the first round that year, so not listening to him has stuck in my mind.

But hey, I'm sure he's had his busts too, and I'm sure he's less apt to talk about those!

 

[Behn Wilson]

Well, you may laugh at this, but he did mention Munro and didn't write him off, so he might have been part of that decision. I know he was big on Bell when they signed him, and I also know he spoke highly of Ruutu before that draft. But he said picks like Wisniewski "keep him employed". I don't think he was part of the Smith pro-Russian mindset at all.

The one thing I remember from 1999, was when I asked him about Lundmark, Kelman and Saprykin, he described Lundmark as the best of the three "sure fire NHL player", Saprykin as a skilled NHL calibre player, but with some issues and risks, and that Kelman simply couldn't skate that well and was overated. In hindsight, that's pretty solid. I ended up taking Kelman in my fantasy draft late in the first round that year, so not listening to him has stuck in my mind.

But hey, I'm sure he's had his busts too, and I'm sure he's less apt to talk about those!

So where do you know TIm Higgins from? He was the one who scouted and recommended Munro (per the Hawks own website) and he should be fired strictly on that basis. Munro looked as out of place as a goalie as Ive ever seen with the Hawks and if he still holds out hope for him being an NHLer then maybe this scout needs to pursue another line of work. I dont mean to be ripping on your friend but DUmas and his whole staff should have been axed years ago.

I like Smitth's Russian picks and think both Yakubov and Babchuuk are going to turn out to be studs. I wouldnt give up on Vorobiev either as he is still recovering from a knee injury but he pl;ayed far too soft this year. I would trade him in a heartbeat with a second to get Valabik though.

They should have let Smith make al their picks, we would have Tyutin instead of Munro if that was the case.

Picking Munro who was rated in the 3-4th rounds in a deep draft in the first round is a firable offense in my book.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Another interesting note - he mentioned they gave Dustin Byfuglien an ultimatum to show up at camp at 240 or don't bother showing up at all. He weighed in at 260 at the end of the season, and was up to 270 a little while after that. Says his skills and size package have NHL written all over them, but they'll know this summer whether he has a future with the Hawks.

Very interesting! I picked Byfuglien in my fantasy league for fun (I have Medvedev so thought they'd make a nice duo) so glad to know what's happening to him.

Thanks!

 

[Behn Wilson]

Very interesting! I picked Byfuglien in my fantasy league for fun (I have Medvedev so thought they'd make a nice duo) so glad to know what's happening to him.

Thanks!

Byfugelin was one of five Hawk prospecs sent to a power skating camp last off season so I think that shows that the Hawks have high hopes for him. He is definitely fun to follow that is for sure.

Vlad, you seem pretty knowledgable on prospects, do you think he will be a better forward or defenseman if he makes it to the NHL.. Thanks. Oh and Stephane Quintal sucks!!!