Bobby Ryan Part 2

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

You can't relate to obsessing over Silf? Some people just get hung up on things, just a different nature. Heck, I still think about what could have been if we'd traded down and took Pronger instead of Daigle.

Yes and the deal for Luongo that Mike Keenan said Muckler never called him back on that would have been accepted before Van's offer. I think it was Phillips, Vermette and a pick or something.

 

[BonkTastic]

Can the mods please finally re-name this thread the "Jakob Silfverberg Memorial Revisionist Spectacular", in honor of the tone it has taken over the last 4 months?


Or is that what we're going to call the next Bobby Ryan thread? I mean, I don't want to jump the gun or anything, if we're just waiting for this thread to hit 1000, I can understand that. I don't want to inconvenience anyone if this is the plan all along.

 

[Icelevel]

I know this is tongue and cheek, but it is representative of how many people evaluate (then re-evaluate, rinse and repeat) the trade. So short-sighted while at the same time isolating good and bad stints for comparison, it's crazy.

ps. Y'all gotta think of how Silf would fit in to the lineup. He's a complimentary player. Hoffman-Zib-Silf is weak sauce.

conacher-zib-silf was awesome. so...given the growth of zib and silf and the upgrade at lw with hoff, gotta think it would be better than what it was which was pretty exciting.

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

conacher-zib-silf was awesome. so...given the growth of zib and silf and the upgrade at lw with hoff, gotta think it would be better than what it was which was pretty exciting.

Do you honestly think Conacher-Zib-Silf was first line quality, even if you subbed in Hoff?

Because Hoff-Zib-Ryan might end up being our de facto top line next year/a few years from now.

Silf isn't a top line guy. Ryan is. IMO, that's the end of it.

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

Can the mods please finally re-name this thread the "Jakob Silfverberg Memorial Revisionist Spectacular", in honor of the tone it has taken over the last 4 months?


Or is that what we're going to call the next Bobby Ryan thread? I mean, I don't want to jump the gun or anything, if we're just waiting for this thread to hit 1000, I can understand that. I don't want to inconvenience anyone if this is the plan all along.

Well now you just spoiled the surprise...

 

[mcnorth]

Yes and the deal for Luongo that Mike Keenan said Muckler never called him back on that would have been accepted before Van's offer. I think it was Phillips, Vermette and a pick or something.

Don't.Do.This.To.Me.

And now I'm thinking about when we could have drafted Byfuglien in the 7th rd in 03!

 

[BonkTastic]

Don't.Do.This.To.Me.

And now I'm thinking about when we could have drafted Byfuglien in the 7th rd in 03!

We could have had Gretzky if we'd just offered him a personal services contract back in '79.

I mean, we didn't have a team back then, but it's these sorts of mistakes that have kept us from teally ever being contenders.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Yes and the deal for Luongo that Mike Keenan said Muckler never called him back on that would have been accepted before Van's offer. I think it was Phillips, Vermette and a pick or something.

A bit revisionist.

"John Muckler kicked tires on Roberto Luongo just before he was dealt to the Canucks. Mike Keenan, then the Panthers GM, says they talked about a deal (Emery, Antoine Vermette, a defenseman, and a draft pick was one possibility), but he could never get Muckler to get serious.

"I told John make me a firm offer," Keenan says. "But he never did." So Keenan traded Luongo to the Canucks"

That being said, I've learned to be happy with what we've got. And I couldn't be happier to have a high talent, high character, likeable player like Bobby Ryan in Ottawa.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

A bit revisionist.

"John Muckler kicked tires on Roberto Luongo just before he was dealt to the Canucks. Mike Keenan, then the Panthers GM, says they talked about a deal (Emery, Antoine Vermette, a defenseman, and a draft pick was one possibility), but he could never get Muckler to get serious.

"I told John make me a firm offer," Keenan says. "But he never did." So Keenan traded Luongo to the Canucks"

That being said, I've learned to be happy with what we've got. And I couldn't be happier to have a high talent, high character, likeable player like Bobby Ryan in Ottawa.

Good find, my memory has deceived me. It still hurts knowing we could have solved our goaltending issues so easily.

I'm also happy with the Ryan trade regardless. I was such a Silf fan that if anything I'm just happy he's doing well.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Just be happy the trade was a win for two years. Two years Ryan has been better then Silf. Silf still has yet to show hes better then Ryan over the course of a whole season. Once Silf is actually shown to be better we can complain or once Ritchie and Noeson combined with Silf show to be better.

If anything this doesnt belong in the Ryan thread. He didnt make the trade. Get pissed at Murray for having an obsession with power forwards

Maybe Ryan would of made the trade

Anaheim
O'brien

Ottawa
Ryan

Thats the trade i believe Ryan wanted

Let that be a warning to everyone who wants to move players after one season or trade 1st round picks before you know how good you team is. It would be silly to move Prince and Puempel or our first imo

 

[BonkTastic]

If we had not traded Silf, then Hoffman would never have had a chance to break out on the Sens, IMO. He would have been buried on the left side, and we'd be talking about "what to do with that 4th liner Hoffman now that he needs a new contract"

I'm just saying - the trade caused a lot of dominoes to fall on both sides. It's never black and white.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

If we had not traded Silf, then Hoffman would never have had a chance to break out on the Sens, IMO. He would have been buried on the left side, and we'd be talking about "what to do with that 4th liner Hoffman now that he needs a new contract"

I'm just saying - the trade caused a lot of dominoes to fall on both sides. It's never black and white.

Or it could have been one of Hoffman/Stone in the deal instead of Silf and we'd be kicking ourselves for keeping the lesser of the 3.

 

[Xamar*]

We're all cheered up now but wait until Silf scores another crucial goal then back to square 1 haha

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

If we had not traded Silf, then Hoffman would never have had a chance to break out on the Sens, IMO. He would have been buried on the left side, and we'd be talking about "what to do with that 4th liner Hoffman now that he needs a new contract"

I'm just saying - the trade caused a lot of dominoes to fall on both sides. It's never black and white.

If were playing the dominoes angle. If we dont make the Ryan trade i suspect we trade/traded spezza earlier and Michaelk as well as some other players arent retained. I think Bobby Ryan was brought here specifically for spezza. Murray thought the team was closer then it was. Maybe if he had a different outlook on this team we trade more older players to make room for younger guys.

Would we be a better team now if we had traded or cut bait from more of the older players at the onset of the rebuild? I think there were some people at the onset of the rebuild who thought more players should of been traded. Its hard though.... The sens did compete earlier then expected and make the playoffs but those years look more like a mirage then anything and were built off the backs of older declining players+karlsson. If it had been younger players being the catalysts it would of been more fair to say that this was the team going forward but players like Gonchar, Kuba, Anderson, Spezza, Phillips and Spezza were the players most responsible for making the playoffs. Not young prospects. the prospects that were good were unexpected players like Smith, Greening and Condra. Players who look more now like mirages or false promises compared to what the sens have now in their young core

The Ryan trade to me wasnt just a normal trade but the showing of the teams organizational philosophy.

One other thing to consider with Ryan is that Murray probably one hundred percent expected Ryan-Spezza to be a thing for the long haul. Lack of chemistry and Spezza bailing early hurt that plan.

Michalek-Spezza-Ryan looked very good on paper but we didint get the michalek and spezza people expected coming off injuries. I cant understate how much i think Spezza asking out made Murray tear up his plans for the team

 

[BonkTastic]

I think Bobby Ryan was brought here specifically for spezza.

I think Ryan was brought here specifically to replace Alfredsson in the lineup, with the added benefit of throwing a smoke & mirrors act up around the sudden outrage over how Alfie left. I don't think it was any coincidence when you look at the timing of the trade, either.

I think the Sens thought he would play with Spezza, but I don't think he was brought here FOR Spezza. He was brought in because we needed a top-end winger immediately.

If you ask me, and if we're playing the "no sources allowed gut-call hindsight game" - if Alfie stays, we don't make the Ryan trade.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

I think Ryan was brought here specifically to replace Alfredsson in the lineup, with the added benefit of throwing a smoke & mirrors act up around the sudden outrage over how Alfie left. I don't think it was any coincidence when you look at the timing of the trade, either.

I think the Sens thought he would play with Spezza, but I don't think he was brought here FOR Spezza. He was brought in because we needed a top-end winger immediately.

If you ask me, and if we're playing the "no sources allowed gut-call hindsight game" - if Alfie stays, we don't make the Ryan trade.

I disagree although i see how someone can easily think that.

Murray had been in on Ryan for a long time before there was ever any inclination Alfredsson would leave to detroit. Murray had been obsessed with the search of a powerforward for spezza since heatley's departure. Even to my recollection saying he wanted a powerforward for spezza or to play with spezza

Its easy to assume alfredsson's departure made Murray make a desperate trade but murray says otherwise.. I think whats more likely is Murray was trying to get Ryan and had already put set offers on the table. Once Alfredsson left murray met the Ducks demands disregarding what he previously thought acceptable. Alfredsson was not the reason for the Ryan trade but the reason murray paid so much.

This also fits in with Murray telling Aldredsson he planned on trading for Ryan

 

[Nordic*]

Have watched both teams extensively this season and would take Silfverberg without thinking twice. Ryan, when on his game, is more dominant, but that's only like every 6-7th game. Silfver never takes a shift off and is always out against the other teams top lines, shutting them down while putting up points.

Also much better in the playoffs.

And much cheaper.

And younger.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Have watched both teams extensively this season and would take Silfverberg without thinking twice. Ryan, when on his game, is more dominant, but that's only like every 6-7th game. Silfver never takes a shift off and is always out against the other teams top lines, shutting them down while putting up points.

Also much better in the playoffs.

And much cheaper.

And younger.

Going forward Silf MIGHT be better but without a doubt the sens have had the better player two straight years. I think the ducks win the trade soon but...lets not forget Silf has had some big struggles too. I think thats worth considering because short term the trade was good. Big problem with short term being good is that this team wasnt a short distance from contention even if murray thought that. I think this is where we can say spezza asking out also put a hole in the plan. Even then Murray certainly made some poor judgements about the defense.... Particularly with Wier and Cowen

 

[Nordic*]

Going forward Silf MIGHT be better but without a doubt the sens have had the better player two straight years. I think the ducks win the trade soon but...lets not forget Silf has had some big struggles too. I think thats worth considering because short term the trade was good

The trade wasn't Silfver for Ryan.

Anaheim has already won the trade as a whole, now it's only down to Ryan vs Silfver.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

The trade wasn't Silfver for Ryan.

Anaheim has already won the trade as a whole, now it's only down to Ryan vs Silfver.

I know it wasnt silf for Ryan. Noeson and Ritchie have done crap in the NHL... thats why we win short term. Ryan made us better for two years then anything given up. Those pieces combined would of had little effect the last two years. In the next few years perhaps as soon as next year we start losing but fact is Ryan has had a bigger positive impact in the NHL then anything traded for him so far would of had on the sens

I mean last year people were saying the trade was very favorable for Ottawa. Silf's shot was messed up because his wrist, Noeson just had a major injury and was going to miss the whole year and Ritchie wasnt seen in the same light as he is after he tore up the post season.

Lets make judgements on what the players have done not what they might do. Maybe next week Richie falls down some stairs and Silf chooses to leave for the KHL.

Idk i just think short term...ryan has been more beneficial to the sens. So short term it was a win. If the sens had won the cup. It would of been a win. The problem is short term wasnt within our window. Call it bad judgement by Murray because how good he thought this team was but some things were unpredictable like spezza asking out

Im not a fan of the Ryan trade for the same reasons im not a fan of trading picks or prospects like prince. Were not super close to the cup or a team that can regularly be projected into the playoffs. We need dmen. We dont know where the picks will end up. We dont know what Hoffman truely is after one season(ie silf). We dont know what Puempel and Prince are at the NHL level.

This is where people say we dont have room for everyone and to an extent i agree but if we dont have room for everyone people shouldnt cry when a prospect turns into a top 6 forward

 

[topshelf15]

Have watched both teams extensively this season and would take Silfverberg without thinking twice. Ryan, when on his game, is more dominant, but that's only like every 6-7th game. Silfver never takes a shift off and is always out against the other teams top lines, shutting them down while putting up points.

Also much better in the playoffs.

And much cheaper.

And younger.

Forgot softer , silf was never going to do here what he is doing in ANA.Kid was and still is soft as melted ice cream ,Ryan fits our team much better and will be still the best forward moving forward period

 

[Icelevel]

Do you honestly think Conacher-Zib-Silf was first line quality, even if you subbed in Hoff?

Because Hoff-Zib-Ryan might end up being our de facto top line next year/a few years from now.

Silf isn't a top line guy. Ryan is. IMO, that's the end of it.

if ryan is our "top line guy" and that's what he gives in the playoffs from now on, we have absolutely no hope of winning anything while he is here.
I'm evaluating what i've seen not what he is capable of. Turn it around (play like a 1st line player) and i'll change my evaluation.

 

[SpezDispenser]

How can people not understand the off season surgery playing a huge part in Ryan fading down the stretch and the playoffs. Do people realize how much conditioning needs to go into an off season for a player to be effective all year?

How about we revisit trade debates after next season?

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

if ryan is our "top line guy" and that's what he gives in the playoffs from now on, we have absolutely no hope of winning anything while he is here.
I'm evaluating what i've seen not what he is capable of. Turn it around (play like a 1st line player) and i'll change my evaluation.

That's fair. I'm sort of doing the opposite, hence the differing opinions.

How about we revisit trade debates after next season?

This would likely be the best way to go about it. This is a "show us you're worth the money" year for Bobby in Ottawa.

 

[BigBush*]

How can people not understand the off season surgery playing a huge part in Ryan fading down the stretch and the playoffs. Do people realize how much conditioning needs to go into an off season for a player to be effective all year?

How about we revisit trade debates after next season?

That was his excuse last season as well.

I judge players based on their play on ice. Ryan has not had the greatest couple seasons. Whether its due to injuries or whatever.

Lots of players have surgery in the summer and rebound fine. Stop making excuses for him