Bob Probert ruin fighting?

[PistolPete]

I get the sense that his easygoing nature made fighting nothing personal but just a job and that led to the "unwritten code" around fighting where it was never anything personal so a player didn't attempt to do maximum damage to his opponent.

The fights after he was in the league for a while strike me as different from before. Players fell to the ice, the opponent kept punching, his well being be damned.

 

[Mr Nogatco]

I get the sense that his easygoing nature made fighting nothing personal but just a job and that led to the "unwritten code" around fighting where it was never anything personal so a player didn't attempt to do maximum damage to his opponent.

The fights after he was in the league for a while strike me as different from before. Players fell to the ice, the opponent kept punching, his well being be damned.

And that ruined it for you?

 

[BB79]

Nah. Gary Bettman ruined it

 

[PistolPete]

And that ruined it for you?

Hell yeah.

The fighting today amounts to AEW. The punches hurt but gotta make sure you don't injure the guy in the name of the code or sportsmanship or some ridiculous mindset.

Fighting from the 80s ans earlier was a lot more entertaining

 

[PistolPete]

Nah. Gary Bettman ruined it

Did he come up with "The Code" nonsense?

 

[Acallabeth]

It's very regrettable to read opinions that say that the idea of sportmanship is ridiculous and criticize that 'a player didn't attempt to do maximum damage to his opponent' in 2025, when the entire world is acutely aware of long-term damage of hockey-related head trauma and works towards decreasing it impact.

 

[mr figgles]

The GMs that brought on goons with no other skills than fighting ruined fighting.

 

[PistolPete]

It's very regrettable to read opinions that say that the idea of sportmanship is ridiculous and criticize that 'a player didn't attempt to do maximum damage to his opponent' in 2025, when the entire world is acutely aware of long-term damage of hockey-related head trauma and works towards decreasing it impact.

Sportsmanship in fighting is an ironic notion given that fighting in itself is lack of sportsmanship and also a response to lack of sportsmanship by the opponent.

This isn't UFC or boxing where the fight is in itself the game. As such, yes, if I am to be entertained by this sideshow aspect of the game, I fully expect real damage and violence and I am willing to accept death- whether immediate or hastened- as a result of this sideshow. I don't want to see AEW nonsense where there is so much restriction on the fight that it is just as well to be scripted.

And when the Code came along, the knowledge of the long term damage it inflicts wasn't known. Which is another hiccup to the NHL combatting head injuries- they penalize many hits to the head, even accidental, but allow intentionally punches to the head. Make that make sense from a health and safety perspective.

I know what you're saying, but even you must recognize at least in part the absurdity of sportsmanship in hockey fights? Just a little?

 

[Mr Nogatco]

if I am to be entertained by this sideshow aspect of the game, I fully expect real damage and violence and I am willing to accept death- whether immediate or hastened- as a result of this sideshow

riiiight

 

[Crazy Cizikas]

You think that Probert was easygoing? He beat the crap out of people for a living and had stress stapled across his face.

 

[PistolPete]

You think that Probert was easygoing? He beat the crap out of people for a living and had stress stapled across his face.

Off the ice.

Many players have stories if him being the antithesis to a guy like John Ferguson and approaching them like they were all best buddies. And you often hear of these kinds of things from goons since that time. I can't recall similar stories by ir about Williams, Schultz, Wilson, Durban, Gallant, etc

 

[Crazy Cizikas]

Off the ice.

Many players have stories if him being the antithesis to a guy like John Ferguson and approaching them like they were all best buddies. And you often hear of these kinds of things from goons since that time. I can't recall similar stories by ir about Williams, Schultz, Wilson, Durban, Gallant, etc

Does that make him easygoing?

He was a coke-fueled beast.

 

[PistolPete]

riiiight

To be clear I'm not saying I'm expecting a player to die, only that if they're going to have the entire sideshow of fighting it's meaningless without genuine violence and it is acceptable to me if death results for the willing participants. I'm not wishy washy about it.

 

[Crazy Cizikas]

To be clear I'm not saying I'm expecting a player to die, only that if they're going to have the entire sideshow of fighting it's meaningless without genuine violence and it is acceptable to me if death results for the willing participants. I'm not wishy washy about it.

Your value of life is disturbing.

 

[PistolPete]

Does that make him easygoing?

He was a coke-fueled beast.

Can't recall any stories of him being violent off the ice, particularly with opponents.

Your value of life is disturbing.

Can't the same be said of anyone who is a fan of fighting in hockey, or boxing or MMA?

People watch these knowing there's a good chance these participants are going to end up with serious quality if life issues, maybe suicidal even.

if someone truly cared about human life they would object to all of these activities outright. Yet many don't.

 

[Johnny Engine]

The GMs that brought on goons with no other skills than fighting ruined fighting.

This is true, and I would extend that to say that the success of fighting as a hockey strategy both created and ruined the role of the enforcer.
If it's something valuable to have (yes), then it only makes sense to keep looking for scarier and scarier fighters. And if teams keep doing that eventually you're going to prioritize it so much that you're accepting guys who can't really play hockey. The "price" of that level of toughness gets so high that it becomes a bad investment - and a 30-year market bubble that started growing in the 70s finally pops.

 

[Crazy Cizikas]

Can't recall any stories of him being violent off the ice, particularly with opponents.

Can't the same be said of anyone who is a fan of fighting in hockey, or boxing or MMA?

People watch these knowing there's a good chance these participants are going to end up with serious quality if life issues, maybe suicidal even.

if someone truly cared about human life they would object to all of these activities outright. Yet many don't.

Yeah, it’s disgusting. But to outright say that you don’t care if they die is a whole different level.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

riiiight

You the spectator in no danger whatsoever are willing to accept death of other people for your entertainment.

Oh what a bold, gutsy statement.

 

[DaaaaB's]

I get the sense that his easygoing nature made fighting nothing personal but just a job and that led to the "unwritten code" around fighting where it was never anything personal so a player didn't attempt to do maximum damage to his opponent.

The fights after he was in the league for a while strike me as different from before. Players fell to the ice, the opponent kept punching, his well being be damned.

Players have always tried to knock each other out and still do. Just because they don't punch a guy on the ground like a cheap shot artist would doesn't mean they're not trying to hurt each other. Fighters in the 70's use to pull each other's hair a lot too, do you want that back in fights too?

Your whole theory makes no sense tbh. Who cares if they had a code, it's no different than boxing or MMA having rules. It's still a fight between two guys who are trying to knock each other out. Saying you don't care if they die is just flat out stupid.

 

[Crazy Cizikas]

You the spectator in no danger whatsoever are willing to accept death of other people for your entertainment.

Oh what a bold, gutsy statement.

You quoted the wrong person. But apparently PistolPete has no empathy.

 

[DaaaaB's]

Can't recall any stories of him being violent off the ice, particularly with opponents.

Probert assaulted police officer's on at least one occasion and was known as a guy who could snap on occasion. He was generally considered to be a friendly drinker though. Tiger Williams is widely known as one of the nicest guys off the ice so not sure where you're getting this stuff from. Are you suggesting that John Ferguson used to fight opponents off the ice?

 

[Crazy Cizikas]

Probert assaulted police officer's on at least one occasion and was known as a guy who could snap on occasion. He was generally considered to be a friendly drinker though. Tiger Williams is widely known as one of the nicest guys off the ice so not sure where you're getting this stuff from. Are you suggesting that John Ferguson used to fight opponents off the ice?

He also thinks that watching people die is acceptable entertainment, so…

 

[DaaaaB's]

Ftr, I don't think anyone ruined fighting, it's just been phased out due to a number of factors. One factor being the league is too skilled and competitive to have a guy on the roster who can only fight. There's just not many Tocchet, Neely, Shanahan type players who can play and fight left out there. Awareness of head injuries is another factor along with fighting becoming less prevalent in society in general.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

You quoted the wrong person. But apparently PistolPete has no empathy.

Yeah sorry about that. I realized it and then was too lazy to change it lol

 

[Your Boy Troy]

I think that Georges Laraque would be the better example. He was very unemotional when it came to his fights. Too friendly and diplomatic to be an effective enforcer.