Bob MacKenzies team last night.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Sorry but I don't think Lemieux can pull that one and wouldn't pull that one if he could. Nice job attacking the integrity of two of the greatest players of all time in one sentence.

Compare the players Sid plays with. How many of them were in their primes since his age hit double digits?

I do believe Lemieux issued an ultimatum. If you haven't been watching TV, Lemieux has stated on several occasions that if he doesn't play for Team Canada, he would *campaign* for Crosby to be onboard. Read into it. He probably told Gretz something along the lines of "Well, Gretz, I'd love to play and I could probably help contribute, but with my heart and all I can't take any chances. I shouldn't play and I won't play, as long as Crosby takes my spot. If you can't guarantee that Sidney doesn't take my place, then I'll play, but only in a limited role."

As what Don Cherry said last night, if Spezza is not named to the team (being the LEADING Canadian point scorer) then it's a complete farce this Olympic team. Maybe I'm just one of the few on here who don't buy the Crosby hype. As for the "integrity" of two Canada's greatest hockey players, don't you dare think for one minute that these two guys have played politics throughout their career to benefit themselves. It would be no different if they played politics again. It's no big deal, but don't dare talk about integrity when they've played politics their entire careers.

 

[wilka91*]

If Spezza is not on the team, then I don't know why there should be an 81-man list at all in the first place. It looks like Gretz made his team before the season.

But if he wants to hurt his team by not having Heatley with Spezza, it's up to him.

 

[Ronald Pagan]

Yeah Heatley and Spezza sure have been great the last 5 games. Spezza's way too one dimensional to make this team.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I think that this year they should go with as many young guys as possible. Don't forget that 2010 Winter Games will be played in Vancouver! Our young guns need experience for those games and with Sakic, Niedermayer and Brodeur on board we don't have any leadership issues. So I think that Spezza, Crosby, Phaneuf and Staal should all get consideration, don't pick them all but gave 2 or 3 of them the chance. They are certainly playing like four of the 20 best players in Canada right now and they're still improving. Unless Gretzky decides to go with experience and loyalty to the former member of team Canada, those guys shouldn't be overlook.

Spezza, Crosby, Phaneuf and Staal with Iginla, Gagné, Heatley, Nash and Thornton will likely be part of our core for 2010, so with all of them on the team this year we don't hurt our chance of winning this year and we improve our chances of winning in 2010.

Guys like Draper, Maltby, Doan and Bertuzzi (I would like to include Ryan Smyth but he's so dedicated to Canada that he HAS to be on that team) that are not better then any of our young guys anyway should not be on the team.

With the young guys we can win it all this year and we improve our chances of winning in 2010, so why not give them a chance?

 

[Crosbyfan]

As what Don Cherry said last night, if Spezza is not named to the team (being the LEADING Canadian point scorer) then it's a complete farce this Olympic team. Maybe I'm just one of the few on here who don't buy the Crosby hype. As for the "integrity" of two Canada's greatest hockey players, don't you dare think for one minute that these two guys have played politics throughout their career to benefit themselves. It would be no different if they played politics again. It's no big deal, but don't dare talk about integrity when they've played politics their entire careers.

Crosby could end up playing centre for Canada come February but I doubt that would be the case on a regular basis. The fact is that if Sid is named to the team it's due to his ability to play either wing more than centre as there will be at least two centres moved to wing positions. The 13th forward has to be able to play at least one wing position, preferably both and ideally centre as well. Spezza could end up 13th forward but if he makes it (and I think he should) it will be with the intention of playing him in one of the centre positions.
So Sid is in the running for 1 of 8 wing positions (do not read this as displacing one of the obvios locks at wing) plus the 13th forward position and Spezza is in the running for 1 of the 4 centre positions.

You may as well be comparing Crosby to Phaneuf or Spezza to Curtis Joseph at this point in the process IMO. They are not in the running for the same spots but are being pitted against each other in the media as p[ossible "replacements" on a team that has not even been named. I know less about Staal so I really don't know where he fits in or out of this picture.

Anything that comes out of Don Cherry's mouth should be taken with a grain of salt. (and anything about Sid...just unscrew the cover of the salt shaker and pound back the salt)

 

[wildone26*]

The question is I have, is regardless what any of our opinions are, how likely is Bob MacKenzie to be how close to the actual projected team he had on Sportscentre. If I recall correctly he was quite a bit off on his projected World Cup squad 2 weeks before it was selected.

I would not respect a choice to put Crosby on the team at all. Spezza and Staal have far outperformed him this year, and Crosby is not a defensive player, a grinder, or a checking specialist by any means. He isnt quite a specatcular enough scorer to make it as an offensive player, and too oriented as a scorer right now to be a role player. If he is over the team over either of those(Spezza or Staal)as Bob predicts, it is an another example of the politics of the sport, marketing and image over substance. Crosby is doing incredable for an 18-year old but the decision should not be based on how well you are doing for your age, in fact in past yeas younger players had to do that much more to make the team, but apparently there are two sets of rules, one for Crosby, and one for other players. Bringing him as a 13th forward just for experience is bogus reasoning, since the players who deserve to be on the team most should be there, and plus it is far from a safe assumption the 13th forward wont have to play and it should be somebody who can be most helpful. I applaud Cherry for saying it would be a disgrace to keep Spezza off; and Crosby's strong consideration is all due to the hype and marketing, baloney it has to do with integrity of Grezxty and Lemieux, it isnt!

The only way I would put Crosby on the team is over people like Bertuzzi or Doan who I wouldnt have on the team, but for all practical purposes are shoo-ins anyway. Am also a bit surprised 1 of the Tampa Bay trio wont be left off likely, since they are not having the best year so far. Veteran leaders, with great all around abilities, and abilities to utilize the bigger ice like few others, such as Kariya and Shanahan should be getting more consideration than they are IMHO. I would also consider bringing two checking specialists, perhaps both Maltby and Draper, instead of just one, since there are going to be so many scorers on the team, and those are important rules vs the teams with a great combination of physical ability and skill.

I agree Luongo should not make the team the way he is playing now, and in fact Brodeur should not start the Olympics as the #1 goalie the way he is playing now. I expect both will be that way regardless though. I would like to see Turco on the team, but he probably wont.

McCabe also should be on the team over Foote or Rhegher IMO.

 

[wildone26*]

I do believe Lemieux issued an ultimatum. If you haven't been watching TV, Lemieux has stated on several occasions that if he doesn't play for Team Canada, he would *campaign* for Crosby to be onboard. Read into it. He probably told Gretz something along the lines of "Well, Gretz, I'd love to play and I could probably help contribute, but with my heart and all I can't take any chances. I shouldn't play and I won't play, as long as Crosby takes my spot. If you can't guarantee that Sidney doesn't take my place, then I'll play, but only in a limited role."

As what Don Cherry said last night, if Spezza is not named to the team (being the LEADING Canadian point scorer) then it's a complete farce this Olympic team. Maybe I'm just one of the few on here who don't buy the Crosby hype. As for the "integrity" of two Canada's greatest hockey players, don't you dare think for one minute that these two guys have played politics throughout their career to benefit themselves. It would be no different if they played politics again. It's no big deal, but don't dare talk about integrity when they've played politics their entire careers.

Yes, if Crosby is on the team it is clear Lemieux and Grezxty orchestrated between them a long time ago that Crosby had to be on the team and that is a disgrace. Shame on them if that turns out to the be the case, and I hope they take a ton of heat for it, and nobody gives them any benefit of doubt, they dont deserve it in this case! If he is not on the team though applaud Grezxty for his integrity and doing what is right, assuming there are no other crazy crazy choices on the team instead, such as somebody from Phoenix not named Doan or Jospeh(unlikely).

 

[gbl1p]

The question is I have, is regardless what any of our opinions are, how likely is Bob MacKenzie to be how close to the actual projected team he had on Sportscentre. If I recall correctly he was quite a bit off on his projected World Cup squad 2 weeks before it was selected.

I would not respect a choice to put Crosby on the team at all. Spezza and Staal have far outperformed him this year, and Crosby is not a defensive player, a grinder, or a checking specialist by any means. He isnt quite a specatcular enough scorer to make it as an offensive player, and too oriented as a scorer right now to be a role player. If he is over the team over either of those(Spezza or Staal)as Bob predicts, it is an another example of the politics of the sport, marketing and image over substance. Crosby is doing incredable for an 18-year old but the decision should not be based on how well you are doing for your age, in fact in past yeas younger players had to do that much more to make the team, but apparently there are two sets of rules, one for Crosby, and one for other players. Bringing him as a 13th forward just for experience is bogus reasoning, since the players who deserve to be on the team most should be there, and plus it is far from a safe assumption the 13th forward wont have to play and it should be somebody who can be most helpful. I applaud Cherry for saying it would be a disgrace to keep Spezza off; and Crosby's strong consideration is all due to the hype and marketing, baloney it has to do with integrity of Grezxty and Lemieux, it isnt!

The only way I would put Crosby on the team is over people like Bertuzzi or Doan who I wouldnt have on the team, but for all practical purposes are shoo-ins anyway. Am also a bit surprised 1 of the Tampa Bay trio wont be left off likely, since they are not having the best year so far. Veteran leaders, with great all around abilities, and abilities to utilize the bigger ice like few others, such as Kariya and Shanahan should be getting more consideration than they are IMHO. I would also consider bringing two checking specialists, perhaps both Maltby and Draper, instead of just one, since there are going to be so many scorers on the team, and those are important rules vs the teams with a great combination of physical ability and skill.

I agree Luongo should not make the team the way he is playing now, and in fact Brodeur should not start the Olympics as the #1 goalie the way he is playing now. I expect both will be that way regardless though. I would like to see Turco on the team, but he probably wont.

McCabe also should be on the team over Foote or Rhegher IMO.

Thank God you're not the GM.

 

[wildone26*]

Thank God you're not the GM.

Yes thank God the GM is possably willing to put an 18-year old on the team based all on hype and none of merit, and all based on what his fellow legend "friend" tells him in private, and due to his "greatest ever" status nobody dare question it. We should all be thankful for that.

 

[gbl1p]

Yes thank God the GM is possably willing to put an 18-year old on the team based all on hype and none of merit, and all based on what his fellow legend "friend" tells him in private, and due to his "greatest ever" status nobody dare question it. We should all be thankful for that.

That's some pretty strong stuff, bud. I don't know what you're basing these statements on, but I do happen to feel that Crosby merits a spot on the team. As I have previously stated, his skating alone can get him in needless to say his phenominal playmaking abilities and offensive instincts. I happen to think he's simply a more dynamic player than both Spezza and Staal. Unfortunately I don't get to see Staal play nearly as much as the other two, but for me it boils down to who is more versatile, who can be plugged in just about anywhere and add a spark. I know enough of Spezza to have plenty of reservation, though indeed I do feel he can play and play well with Heatley at the tournament.

I like the way Crosby plays the game consistently tenacious. I wish Spezza would show more maturity and drive. Crosby can make Spezza type plays, but he also brings a better skating game and greater 'muck work', among other things. Again, I wish I could have seen more of Staal.

 

[wildone26*]

An interesting comment was made on Sportsnet a day or so ago.

This comment stated that Lemieux and Yzerman pulling out makes it LESS LIKELY that Crosby, Spezza, and Staal are on the team.

Canada is MORE LIKELY now to take veteran players like Draper, Doan, etc. to fill the leadership void created by the loss of Lemieux and Yzerman.

So perhaps the best way for guys like Crosby, Spezza, and Staal to make the team would have been Lemieux and/or Yzerman also playing on the team?

I am not saying that I agree 100% with this. I honestly don't even want to try to figure out what is going through Gretzky's head. But what I have wrote is something to possibly think about and consider.

What about players like Kariya and Shanahan? Wouldnt those be players that would be the best options to fill a "leadership" role that Yzerman and Lemieux would have, except both are playing better hockey right now to boot.

 

[pei fan]

I like what darryl sutter had to say.I'll go with that.I'd say Crosby is a lock.

 

[joe_shannon_1983*]

I like what darryl sutter had to say.I'll go with that.I'd say Crosby is a lock.

What did Sutter say exactly?

 

[gbl1p]

What about players like Kariya and Shanahan? Wouldnt those be players that would be the best options to fill a "leadership" role that Yzerman and Lemieux would have, except both are playing better hockey right now to boot.

And Leadership... ugh.

A team with Sakic, Iginla, Blake, Pronger, et al. should be all set. These players are the cream of the crop in Canadian talent, I have no doubts about leadership. It obviously goes without saying that a Lemieux or Yzerman are the upper class and losing them hurts, however Canada is stacked with leadership and in no way are they destroyed with the loss of the aforementioned two. No way should we start plugging in marginally weaker players to attempt filling 'leadership' gaps.

 

[wildone26*]

That's some pretty strong stuff, bud. I don't know what you're basing these statements on, but I do happen to feel that Crosby merits a spot on the team. As I have previously stated, his skating alone can get him in needless to say his phenominal playmaking abilities and offensive instincts. I happen to think he's simply a more dynamic player than both Spezza and Staal. Unfortunately I don't get to see Staal play nearly as much as the other two, but for me it boils down to who is more versatile, who can be plugged in just about anywhere and add a spark. I know enough of Spezza to have plenty of reservation, though indeed I do feel he can play and play well with Heatley at the tournament.

I like the way Crosby plays the game consistently tenacious. I wish Spezza would show more maturity and drive. Crosby can make Spezza type plays, but he also brings a better skating game and greater 'muck work', among other things. Again, I wish I could have seen more of Staal.

Well that is your opinion. I agree Crosby is a better skater but that is it. Spezza is a better puck handler, better playmaker, stronger and more able to knock people off the put, has better awareness. Crosby is just as suspect defensively, he is only an offensive player, and every team he has ever played on except the World junior team was suspect defensively, he has a far worse +/- ratio than his often linemate Palffy on his own team. As for muck work Staal does more than either of them in the games I have seen Carolina play, and is also more exceptional offensively than Crosby, as Spezza is.

To suggest Crosby would able to lead the NHL points like Spezza was, and Staal briefly did, which I know you didnt claim outright but many have suggested, if he was not playing for Pittsburg is highly questionable, and completely unprovable.
If Crosby thinks he has it tough in Pittsburg he should try having the linemates Ovechkin has in Washington and see if he even comes close to Ovechkin's output.

 

[wildone26*]

And Leadership... ugh.

A team with Sakic, Iginla, Blake, Pronger, et al. should be all set. These players are the cream of the crop in Canadian talent, I have no doubts about leadership. It obviously goes without saying that a Lemieux or Yzerman are the upper class and losing them hurts, however Canada is stacked with leadership and in no way are they destroyed with the loss of the aforementioned two. No way should we start plugging in marginally weaker players to attempt filling 'leadership' gaps.

Shanahan and Kariya have not been "weak" this year by any means, and yes they would bring great veteran leadership to the team. Of those players you mentioned only Sakic would in the same way, and obviously he will be on the team.

 

[gbl1p]

Well that is your opinion. I agree Crosby is a better skater but that is it. Spezza is a better puck handler, better playmaker, stronger and more able to knock people off the put, has better awareness. Crosby is just as suspect defensively, he is only an offensive player, and every team he has ever played on except the World junior team was suspect defensively, he has a far worse +/- ratio than his often linemate Palffy on his own team. As for muck work Staal does more than either of them in the games I have seen Carolina play, and is also more exceptional offensively than Crosby, as Spezza is.

To suggest Crosby would able to lead the NHL points like Spezza was, and Staal briefly did, which I know you didnt claim outright but many have suggested, if he was not playing for Pittsburg is highly questionable, and completely unprovable.
If Crosby thinks he has it tough in Pittsburg he should try having the linemates Ovechkin has in Washington and see if he even comes close to Ovechkin's output.

I strongly agree to disagree then. I think you are miserably failing your assessment if you believe that Spezza is stronger and more able to knock people off the puck than Crosby. I see Spezza every game, and while a phenominal playmaker he is, a strong assertive player he is not.

You can't help but like Staals big body presence coupled with his north-south skating game. I mean, we are talking about the 3 better younger kids in the game. But I'll reiterate once again that I think Crosby is a more versatile, tenacious player whos offensive instincts are not even an inch off of the other two.

Also, let's keep the discussion within the context of the Olympics. Billions of other brain cells are waiting to be lost in various threads outside of this one, especially if we're about to start talking about players potential in countless other possible situations.

 

[gbl1p]

Shanahan and Kariya have not been "weak" this year by any means

Who said they're playing weak ?

 

[joe_shannon_1983*]

To people arguing that Spezza should be on the team before Crosby, the point any of you are making may be moot.

If Ron McLean is to be believed, Gretzky apparently was on the Pittsburgh-Colorado telecast last night, claiming that Crosby will "absolutely be on the team".

Which brings me to my next point:

The day Gretzky changes his tune on Crosby, from "I don't know if he will be on the team" to "absolutely he will be on the team", this change in attitude on Crosby came the exact same day Lemieux declined Team Canada's invitation.

Does anyone honestly think this is a coincidence?

I think that Lemieux only agreed to drop out once it was promised to him that Crosby be the one to replace him, which is what I expected would happen all along.

 

[God Bless Canada]

I can't believe people have Foote as their 7th defenceman, or not even on the team at all. Look at his record. Not just in the NHL, where he is a two-time Cup champion and widely regarded as one of the best defensive defencemen in the game (while being a very good skater and puck-mover), but internationally. In three of his four best-on-best tournaments for Canada, he has been, IMO, the best defenceman on the team in three. (1996 World Cup, 2002 Olys and 2004 World Cup). He was an all-star at the last World Cup and should have been an all-star at the Olys.

Foote is a lock, and will be our best defenceman again, cementing his place in ther Canadian Sports Hall of Fame.

 

[Genghis Keon]

That's some pretty strong stuff, bud. I don't know what you're basing these statements on, but I do happen to feel that Crosby merits a spot on the team. As I have previously stated, his skating alone can get him in needless to say his phenominal playmaking abilities and offensive instincts. I happen to think he's simply a more dynamic player than both Spezza and Staal. Unfortunately I don't get to see Staal play nearly as much as the other two, but for me it boils down to who is more versatile, who can be plugged in just about anywhere and add a spark. I know enough of Spezza to have plenty of reservation, though indeed I do feel he can play and play well with Heatley at the tournament.

I like the way Crosby plays the game consistently tenacious. I wish Spezza would show more maturity and drive. Crosby can make Spezza type plays, but he also brings a better skating game and greater 'muck work', among other things. Again, I wish I could have seen more of Staal.

I agree with you. If this is about the 13th forward spot, I'd prefer Crosby to Spezza. I'd rather have Spezza on one of the four set lines (lined up with Heatley), but, as the 13th guy, I think Crosby's got the speed and is more of an active, tenacious, sparkplug-type guy than Spezza is, which I think is what you want the 13th forward to bring to the table. Spezza's more of a passive player, who lets the game come to him, so I don't think the odds are great he'll be the guy who can spark the team when called. Crosby can be that guy and I do think he's good enough to play a role (either at centre or on wing) if someone gets hurt and he's permanently installed in the lineup.

If we're talking about a roster spot at centre on the top 12, I'd pick Spezza (I'd pick Spezza over Staal too because of Spezza's chemistry with Heatley), but, as a 13th forward, I'd pick Crosby over Spezza (I'd probably pick Staal over Spezza too in this role, but I don't know if I'd pick him over Crosby because I don't know if he can play the wing or if he can be a spark like Crosby).

 

[wildone26*]

To people arguing that Spezza should be on the team before Crosby, the point any of you are making may be moot.

If Ron McLean is to be believed, Gretzky apparently was on the Pittsburgh-Colorado telecast last night, claiming that Crosby will "absolutely be on the team".

Which brings me to my next point:

The day Gretzky changes his tune on Crosby, from "I don't know if he will be on the team" to "absolutely he will be on the team", this change in attitude on Crosby came the exact same day Lemieux declined Team Canada's invitation.

Does anyone honestly think this is a coincidence?

I think that Lemieux only agreed to drop out once it was promised to him that Crosby be the one to replace him, which is what I expected would happen all along.

It sounds to me like it is a fix, which is the only way Crosby would be on the team this year, since his play has not warranted it when one looks at the others available. One does not need to know the fix was in if it happens.

The fact a GM is willing to put somebody on the team because of what his "buddy legend" tells him is a disgrace.

 

[SedinFan*]

The problem with taking Spezza over Crosby is that Spezza's points are inflated because of the players he has around him, and his defensive game still leaves an incredible amount to be desired, it really hasn't improved drastically. Don't give me his plus minus stats, tell that to Marek Malik.

Crosby over Spezza on the bottom 2 lines.

Spezza over Crosby on the top 2 lines.

 

[hockeyfan125]

I think a 4th "energy" line of Crosby - Staal - St. Louis/other would be very effective.

 

[wildone26*]

The problem with taking Spezza over Crosby is that Spezza's points are inflated because of the players he has around him, and his defensive game still leaves an incredible amount to be desired, it really hasn't improved drastically. Don't give me his plus minus stats, tell that to Marek Malik.

Crosby over Spezza on the bottom 2 lines.

Spezza over Crosby on the top 2 lines.

Spezza is able to score as many points as Heatley this year(and at times he has been ahead in points). I doubt anybody would say Heatley's points are inflated by who he plays with this year, so why would Spezza who plays Heatley have that label stuck on him.