samsagat
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- Jun 20, 2013
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Proposal: Bo Horvat (pre-signed at around 8 mil) for Girard + Newhook + 1st + conditional 3rd
- Thread starter samsagat
- Start date
Empoleon8771
Registered User
Horvat doesn't have even close to that much value, not to mention that contract is going to age like milk.
Colorado pukes, breaks phone, and blocks caller on new phone.
Avs44
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- May 16, 2011
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If the Avs could not and would not find the cap space to give Nazem Kadri $7 million after he put up 87 points in 71 games during a cup-winning season...then I highly doubt they are interested in committing that kinda money to Bo Horvat.
- Jun 13, 2010
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An extension adds value, but not that much. The returns for Stone, Pageau and Lindholm were not extraordinary.
Shinjuku Calling
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Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Lets say this trade happens (relax... pretend)... Does the Avs have the cap space to do this?
According to my calculations, Avs would have 13 players signed with $15.6M in cap space for next season. 10 more players to sign with an average cap hit of $1.56/player.
Key RFA's to sign would be Byram and Bowers?
Do the Avs think a $8M center behind MacKinnon fits? Curious to see their comments on that.
According to my calculations, Avs would have 13 players signed with $15.6M in cap space for next season. 10 more players to sign with an average cap hit of $1.56/player.
Key RFA's to sign would be Byram and Bowers?
Do the Avs think a $8M center behind MacKinnon fits? Curious to see their comments on that.
samsagat
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Horvat, the way I see it, is exactly the kind of centerman teams are looking for comes the playoffs.
He's sturdy, he wins faceoffs, he can eat the hardest minutes against tougher competition, plus he's steady in the offensive department.
As for the comparison with Kadri, he's 4 years younger so commiting to him on a longer contract isn't as risky.
Anyways, I think his value will be up to the roof and the team that acquire him will want to pay premium assets only if they can have him longer than just a few months
I might be wrong, there's good chances it won't be Colorado but given their situation up front and the fact they're in their window, I'm sure Colorado will do something big between now and the TD.
He's sturdy, he wins faceoffs, he can eat the hardest minutes against tougher competition, plus he's steady in the offensive department.
As for the comparison with Kadri, he's 4 years younger so commiting to him on a longer contract isn't as risky.
Anyways, I think his value will be up to the roof and the team that acquire him will want to pay premium assets only if they can have him longer than just a few months
I might be wrong, there's good chances it won't be Colorado but given their situation up front and the fact they're in their window, I'm sure Colorado will do something big between now and the TD.
BB88
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- Jan 19, 2015
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The only positive in this scenario for Horvat over Kadri is the age gap.
Which should make Horvat more interesting to teams
Wildcarder
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I can't imagine a trade for Horvat wouldn't include some sort of contract extension discussion.
I'd be shocked if Vancouver took a "pure rental" price. Especially at this point.
Dude...
A player who is an UFA is not going to sign a deal so his current team can get more for him and he doesn't get any say as to where he goes. He's going to test the market. And if he loves the new destination that much, why would he weaken his new team by making them give up valuable assets when he can keep them as teammates and go there for free with a more competitive team when he gets there?
DistantThunderRep
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samsagat
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Maybe.
But we've seen UFA to be sign an extension with the acquiring team before.
Last year it was Lindholm for Boston.
Pacioretty did it when traded to Vegas.
I'm sure there's other examples out there
Players will be more prone to sign a deal and pass on their UFA status when the team they're going to is a winning one
Colorado is surely an attractive team for any player that wants to win.
If the Avs had $8 million to spend on a 2C into their mid-30’s they would have just signed Kadri…who isn’t even a hypothetical Cup-style #2 center - he actually is a Cup winning #2 center.
The Avs will surely make a move or two at the deadline but the entire point of not re-upping Kadri for 7 years was to avoid a ridiculous cap hell moving forward and to keep flexibility.
A straight rental is a more reasonable target and the Avs are not going to pay the premium for a long-term signed Bo because their cap situation is already going to be stretched. Sakic and MacFarland literally said before the season they were going to be patient when assessing the team so it’s unlikely they will make major moves before the deadline - and some of their walking wounded up front are starting to return.
I’ve said it before - if you want to get the premium in a trade for Horvat you need to target teams who can actually afford to pay him as their #1 center or at the bare, bare minimum their #1a/b center for the next 7-8 years. The Avs will not be paying him the rumored asking price for the same reason the Canucks won’t - they have a very, very expensive #1 center locked in for a long, long time.
The Avs will surely make a move or two at the deadline but the entire point of not re-upping Kadri for 7 years was to avoid a ridiculous cap hell moving forward and to keep flexibility.
A straight rental is a more reasonable target and the Avs are not going to pay the premium for a long-term signed Bo because their cap situation is already going to be stretched. Sakic and MacFarland literally said before the season they were going to be patient when assessing the team so it’s unlikely they will make major moves before the deadline - and some of their walking wounded up front are starting to return.
I’ve said it before - if you want to get the premium in a trade for Horvat you need to target teams who can actually afford to pay him as their #1 center or at the bare, bare minimum their #1a/b center for the next 7-8 years. The Avs will not be paying him the rumored asking price for the same reason the Canucks won’t - they have a very, very expensive #1 center locked in for a long, long time.
If the cap jumps to $86.5M as was speculated earlier this year... Yes, absolutely they would be able to make it work.
If the cap doesn't jump to $86.5M, it would be significantly harder to make work, but not impossible.
For example if the Avs made this exact trade in the OP(Its terrible value but for arguments sake), for next year we'd have:
Lehkonen(4.5M) - Mackinnon(12.6M) - Rantanen(9.25M)
Landeskog(7.0M) - Horvat(8.0M) - Nichushkin(6.125M)
O'Connor(1.05M)
Toews(4.1M) - Makar(9.0M)
Byram(4.0M*) Manson(4.5M)
MacDonald(0.8M) - MacDermid(1.0M)
Georgiev(3.4M)
Francouz(2.0M)
We'd be looking at 77.325M spent. *Byram likely gets a bridge deal similar to what Dobson just signed for IMO, maybe less but for shorter term given his injury history. For arguments sake we'll say 3x4M but I could see something like 2x3M instead.
So if the cap is 86.5M, the Avs would still have over $9M to fill out the final 7 roster spots. If they get a couple ELC guys like Foudy and Meyers(He wont be ELC but wont get more then $1M as an RFA next summer) in the bottom 6, and then a veteran bottom pairing Dman like De Haan or Jack Johnson for the bottom pairing.
Basically, I think they could make it work to where they might still have ~5.5M left to build a 3rd line out of, targeting UFAs like Rodrigues, just like what we did this past summer.
If the cap goes to $83.5M instead of $86.5M they could theoretically make it work but they would have a pretty weak bottom 6 forward group unless they can find 2-3 incredible value players in free agency.
All of this to say I wouldn't be surprised if the Avs target a good, cheap, 3rd liner winger with term at the trade deadline this year regardless of what they do with the 2C spot. Not sure who that would be, but someone similar to Brandon Hagel/Blake Coleman that Tampa has traded for the last couple of years.
From a value standpoint, I agree. But Avs won’t want Horvat at $8mm. He’s absolutely worth that much AAV but he’ll get that from a team with more cap space.
To the Avs, Horvat signed 8 x $8mm is probably worth nothing. They wouldn’t trade anything for that because it’s a deal they can’t afford anyway. The Avs won’t go big game hunting for a long term 2C with high AAV. We could have done that with Kadri.
And Vancouver, he’s not going to sign for $8mm. He’ll want more is my guess.
Horvat signed long term at $8mm isn’t necessarily more valuable. If that AAV was $5.75mm. Wow, he’d be worth a fortune, but at $8mm, you’re not buying a good contract. You’re buying a fairly risky one.
Avs can get UFAs. It’s a premium destination. It’s got reasonably low taxes and cost of living. We’re not Winnipeg so we don’t need to trade for risky contracts just to get players to come here that otherwise wouldn’t look our way.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Good stuff.
My bet is the Cap ends up $85M with high escrow. Bettman's latest comment is the same as last summer. Cap is scheduled to grow by $1M but there is a possibility it grows more depending on revenue.
They also have it part of the MOU where they both agree to not shock the system and not many fans understand it. Going from $83.5M to $90M for 24/25 is shocking the system. One way to not shock it is to increase the cap to $85M with high escrow for next season. Players likely agree with this IMO.
Bettman will always say conservatives things. It's not in his best interest to tell us the entire truth until it happens.
samsagat
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Avs management never spent premium assets for strictly rentals, they tend to pay good when there's a good chance they'll keep the player, Lehkonen and Manson as exemples.
It's the reason of my offer.
Plus, with Girard (I think his value isn't that high actually) at 5 mil and Newhook next contract (around 2 - 2,5 mil I assume), Horvat contract would be around the same amount.
But I get it, my proposal doesn't do it, like 99,99999% of proposals here on HFboard
Anyway it was just for fun, we're not talking important matters here...
It's the reason of my offer.
Plus, with Girard (I think his value isn't that high actually) at 5 mil and Newhook next contract (around 2 - 2,5 mil I assume), Horvat contract would be around the same amount.
But I get it, my proposal doesn't do it, like 99,99999% of proposals here on HFboard
Anyway it was just for fun, we're not talking important matters here...
bandwagonesque
I eat Kraft Dinner and I vote
- Mar 5, 2014
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You accidentally left a bunch of stuff out! That's okay, luckily I caught it this time. No need to thank me, just return the favour down the road:
- Horvat will be 4 years younger than Kadri was when his contract was up
- Horvat has played about as well as Kadri in the playoffs
Horvat has been roughly as productive as Kadri since the beginning of his 87-point season.
bert
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