Blues Trade Proposals Part XXXV

[Dbrownss]

I think we’ll go after one free agent and one in a trade. If we don’t get Tavares, I see us going after Kovalchuk over a 3rd term with Perron.

In that case it’d likely be

Kovalchuk-TBA-Tarasenko
Schwartz-Schenn-Fabbri
Steen-Thomas-Berglund
Soshnikov-Barbashev-Brodziak

Kyrou will likely start in the AHL unless Thomas isn’t ready or someone gets hurt.

Kovalchuk wants a deal with term and he's already 35. He can find that somewhere else.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

There is a serious need, and we can't let a small sample size be clouding our judgement.

Schwartz - Schenn - __?__
Fabbri - __?__ - Tarasenko
Steen - __?__ - __?__

1st line: Let the prospects fight it out for that role. We have quality RW prospects and they'll be playing with established players. If they aren't ready, we'll have other options.

2nd line: We need a proven centre. UFA signing or trade. If we're seeing Thomas as an option, that means we aren't making an acquisition and handing him the spot in the summer. If that is the mentality of management then we might as well retool because we aren't a serious contender in the short term. Fabbri is already a question mark with his injury issues, one question mark per line is plenty.

3rd line: Steen needs to be on LW. Armstrong has an approach of collecting players and letting the coach deal with the imbalance he creates. It needs to stop, it doesn't work. We're paying Steen $5.75m and will likely be the best player on the line, play him in his best position. We're at a point in the roster where we can look at Thomas being the centre. He doesn't need to be handed the role, Barbashev and others are competition for the bottom-6 centre roles. We need a middle-6 RW. It means if our RW prospect in the top-6 isn't working, that RW can move up the lineup. At that point, if we don't want 2 prospects on the third line then Jaškin or Soshnikov can fill in on the third line RW while our prospects get a few months in the AHL.

I don't want to imply that it is easy to do this, but we get far better roster balance, security and options with 2 appropriate acquisitions. That forces us to rework the bottom-6 to create space for prospects and find better balance.

I'm with @Alklha on this. Doug Armstrong needs to address forwards this off-season, really before anything else. Move on from Berglund and Sobotka. Unfortunately, I'd wait on re-signing Brodziak or any other bottom 6 player until you've seen how the rest of the top 6 group is going to shake out. Personally, I love the play of Barbashev in the bottom 6. When Soshnikov has been in there with him, those two seem to have some good chemistry.

 

[Ranksu]

You guys really think Army can trade away guys like Berglund and Sobotka this off-season? What about Gunnar and Jbo?

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

You guys really think Army can trade away guys like Berglund and Sobotka this off-season? What about Gunnar and Jbo?

Columbus was rumored to be looking at Berglund. I wouldn't be surprised for a team like Columbus (GM who drafted Berglund), or another team take a shot on him. He's not overly expensive and could serve as a good 3C behind two others. Plus, he doesn't have a full NTC. I think his list is like 20 teams this off-season and drops to 15 next. Sobotka doesn't have a NTC at all and I think a few teams would take him. Again, 3.5 mil for a 3C who can play almost any forward position and has decent hands. Their play lately will probably intrigue some GMs. More than likely, one of them would go in a package, but I could definitely see Armstrong finding takers.

Gunnarsson and Bouwmeester on the other hand will be harder due to their season ending injuries. Gunnarsson is the more likely of the two, but again, a team has to be willing to take a shot. Who's a team desperate for good, cheap, bottom 4 pairing defense?

 

[Alklha]

You guys really think Army can trade away guys like Berglund and Sobotka this off-season? What about Gunnar and Jbo?

Can he? Yes.

Will he? Probably not both.

We acquired Gunnarsson when he had a hip injury, so it isn't impossible to move players when they are injured. It will impact value. It depends how determined we are to go down that road.

Bouwmeester is more problematic. He has a NTC and I doubt he'd be willing to waive for most teams. Interest is going to be more limited because of the injury, cap hit and salary. I don't think Armstrong would really want to trade him anyway.

Sobotka absolutely has value. Coming into this season the general baseline about $100k per point for a middle-6 forward, and more if he is a centre. Sobotka has two years at $3.5m, can play centre and is playing at 34 point pace. The rising cap means more teams are going to have the space to add him. We'll have no problem finding interest in Sobotka, it just depends whether it meets with our asking price.

Berglund won't be as easy because he has 4 years on his deal and it has an NTC. That's more an issue than his salary, which people make too much of an issue about.

People need to remember that Detroit just got a 1st, 2nd & 3rd for Tomáš Tatar. A 45 point winger, who isn't strong defensively, and is signed for 3 years at $5.3m. That was unquestionably a bad contract when the trade happened. We won't get a haul like that, but we won't have any problems finding teams that are going to be interested in the likes of Berglund and Sobotka.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

Can he? Yes.

Will he? Probably not both.

We acquired Gunnarsson when he had a hip injury, so it isn't impossible to move players when they are injured. It will impact value. It depends how determined we are to go down that road.

Bouwmeester is more problematic. He has a NTC and I doubt he'd be willing to waive for most teams. Interest is going to be more limited because of the injury, cap hit and salary. I don't think Armstrong would really want to trade him anyway.

Sobotka absolutely has value. Coming into this season the general baseline about $100k per point for a middle-6 forward, and more if he is a centre. Sobotka has two years at $3.5m, can play centre and is playing at 34 point pace. The rising cap means more teams are going to have the space to add him. We'll have no problem finding interest in Sobotka, it just depends whether it meets with our asking price.

Berglund won't be as easy because he has 4 years on his deal and it has an NTC. That's more an issue than his salary, which people make too much of an issue about.

People need to remember that Detroit just got a 1st, 2nd & 3rd for Tomáš Tatar. A 45 point winger, who isn't strong defensively, and is signed for 3 years at $5.3m. That was unquestionably a bad contract when the trade happened. We won't get a haul like that, but we won't have any problems finding teams that are going to be interested in the likes of Berglund and Sobotka.

You really don't think he'll move both? Can I ask why? I know it wouldn't be easy, but if say, Columbus, is still interested in Berglund, I could see them finishing a deal at the draft. I agree, his NTC is hard to get around, but it's modified after this season is over. He can be traded to 11 teams across the league after this season. The next two years, it's 16 teams he can be traded to as well. I don't think it's as difficult to get around as it was this current season.

 

[Dbrownss]

You really don't think he'll move both? Can I ask why? I know it wouldn't be easy, but if say, Columbus, is still interested in Berglund, I could see them finishing a deal at the draft. I agree, his NTC is hard to get around, but it's modified after this season is over. He can be traded to 11 teams across the league after this season. The next two years, it's 16 teams he can be traded to as well. I don't think it's as difficult to get around as it was this current season.

You'll still need vetern players unless they plan to add someone. Cant rely on Fabbri and rookie are just that.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

It should be noted that not every team out there wants to get younger above everything else. Teams that are struggling to get out of a rebuild (CAR, ARI, VAN, FLA), teams that have shorter playoff windows (CGY, CBJ, even PIT), and even rebuilding teams (NYR, VAN, possibly NYI) could all conceivably be attracted to veteran players like Berglund, Sobotka, Gunnarsson, and Bouwmeester. None of them besides Bouwmeester are very expensive, especially with the cap going up.

It really mostly depends on what our expectations are for the return, imo. It would be nice to get more top-100 picks for the next 2 drafts. It would be nice to get guys who need a change of scenery, or are blocked by depth at their position. Expecting any of them to return a top-6 player doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, but we turned Lehtera into Schenn so anything is possible I guess. But saying it will be hard to make a trade including any of those guys doesn’t make a whole lot of sense either, imo. It just depends on how motivated we are.

 

[Dbrownss]

It should be noted that not every team out there wants to get younger above everything else. Teams that are struggling to get out of a rebuild (CAR, ARI, VAN, FLA), teams that have shorter playoff windows (CGY, CBJ, even PIT), and even rebuilding teams (NYR, VAN, possibly NYI) could all conceivably be attracted to veteran players like Berglund, Sobotka, Gunnarsson, and Bouwmeester. None of them besides Bouwmeester are very expensive, especially with the cap going up.

It really mostly depends on what our expectations are for the return, imo. It would be nice to get more top-100 picks for the next 2 drafts. It would be nice to get guys who need a change of scenery, or are blocked by depth at their position. Expecting any of them to return a top-6 player doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, but we turned Lehtera into Schenn so anything is possible I guess. But saying it will be hard to make a trade including any of those guys doesn’t make a whole lot of sense either, imo. It just depends on how motivated we are.

Blues paid a heavy price to turn Lehtera into Schenn.

I honestly dont think it will be that hard to move any of the 4 guys being discussed. Blues can retain on Boumeester given he has 1yr left. Although I doubt they trade him. Imo he's going to be the 3LD next year. While 5.4m is a crap load to pay for that position.....we'll have Dunn on his ELC to balance it out

 

[Alklha]

You really don't think he'll move both? Can I ask why? I know it wouldn't be easy, but if say, Columbus, is still interested in Berglund, I could see them finishing a deal at the draft. I agree, his NTC is hard to get around, but it's modified after this season is over. He can be traded to 11 teams across the league after this season. The next two years, it's 16 teams he can be traded to as well. I don't think it's as difficult to get around as it was this current season.

I don't think he'll move both because Armstrong is typically pretty conservative. He likes to load up on depth, so I'd expect him still to follow that path.

I don't think we'd have significant difficulty in moving Berglund, but you're also being optimistic. There isn't much out there in the UFA market this year, so expect teams to be doing their work at the draft. Berglund has a full NTC until July 1, so he could make it difficult until then. He can be traded freely to 10 teams from July 1, but there are ways to manipulate that to make it unlikely. Nashville, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Tampa, etc. Easy to be leaving teams on the list that can't realistically take the contract.

Also, how the deadline played out makes me believe that the talk about Sobotka and Berglund being available was more about getting trade currency rather than being sellers. The rumours were that the asking price was high and then neither were traded. We traded Stastny and then tried to make another deal. We weren't specifically looking to move on from both Sobotka and Berglund, we were looking to get a 1st for trade currency. When we got that from another method, we appear to have stopped shopping them.

If we have similar expectations in the summer, both could be back!

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

I don't think he'll move both because Armstrong is typically pretty conservative. He likes to load up on depth, so I'd expect him still to follow that path.

I don't think we'd have significant difficulty in moving Berglund, but you're also being optimistic. There isn't much out there in the UFA market this year, so expect teams to be doing their work at the draft. Berglund has a full NTC until July 1, so he could make it difficult until then. He can be traded freely to 10 teams from July 1, but there are ways to manipulate that to make it unlikely. Nashville, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Tampa, etc. Easy to be leaving teams on the list that can't realistically take the contract.

Also, how the deadline played out makes me believe that the talk about Sobotka and Berglund being available was more about getting trade currency rather than being sellers. The rumours were that the asking price was high and then neither were traded. We traded Stastny and then tried to make another deal. We weren't specifically looking to move on from both Sobotka and Berglund, we were looking to get a 1st for trade currency. When we got that from another method, we appear to have stopped shopping them.

If we have similar expectations in the summer, both could be back!

I may be a little optimistic, and you're right in the fact that Armstrong rarely likes to move on from so much. He likes his depth. However, I think after two straight years of middle of the season issues, I don't see how he can ignore roster construction that much again and only move out Stastny and one of Berglund or Sobotka. Berglund may start the year with the Blues or Sobotka may but I really don't see them ending the year with the Blues. If Armstrong really wants to get this team in a different direction, he does have to realize he's got to move on from more than just the standard UFA.

 

[MissouriMook]

I think you could probably find up to 8-10 teams that would consider Sobotka if we were only looking for a 3rd in exchange, but I think he's probably worth a 2nd if it is in the 46-62 range. Berglund could probably be convinced to waive his NTC and I could see either Montreal or Columbus being good fits for him, but I doubt he gets moved at or before the draft. I also think it is unlikely that DA moves both players. Right now I would put the odds this offseason at 40% Sobotka moves-Berglund stays, 40% both are back (at least to start camp), 15% Berglund moves-Sobotka stays and 5% both are moved.

 

[BleedBlue14]

There is a serious need, and we can't let a small sample size be clouding our judgement.

Schwartz - Schenn - __?__
Fabbri - __?__ - Tarasenko
Steen - __?__ - __?__

1st line: Let the prospects fight it out for that role. We have quality RW prospects and they'll be playing with established players. If they aren't ready, we'll have other options.

2nd line: We need a proven centre. UFA signing or trade. If we're seeing Thomas as an option, that means we aren't making an acquisition and handing him the spot in the summer. If that is the mentality of management then we might as well retool because we aren't a serious contender in the short term. Fabbri is already a question mark with his injury issues, one question mark per line is plenty.

3rd line: Steen needs to be on LW. Armstrong has an approach of collecting players and letting the coach deal with the imbalance he creates. It needs to stop, it doesn't work. We're paying Steen $5.75m and will likely be the best player on the line, play him in his best position. We're at a point in the roster where we can look at Thomas being the centre. He doesn't need to be handed the role, Barbashev and others are competition for the bottom-6 centre roles. We need a middle-6 RW. It means if our RW prospect in the top-6 isn't working, that RW can move up the lineup. At that point, if we don't want 2 prospects on the third line then Jaškin or Soshnikov can fill in on the third line RW while our prospects get a few months in the AHL.

I don't want to imply that it is easy to do this, but we get far better roster balance, security and options with 2 appropriate acquisitions. That forces us to rework the bottom-6 to create space for prospects and find better balance.

I actually halfway fell asleep while I was posting that last night. Started to finish the thought and then passed out. Most of that was based on the notion that there really wont be many suitors for Berglund/Sobotka. I also understand the clouding of judgement by a small sample size, but at the same time they are more than capable of performing in the bottom 6 roles. Most of the struggles we had early on were due to Berglund/Sobotka playing in roles in the top 6 in which we are expecting them to produce in those roles.

I get that Berglund is a contract that would be best suited dumped, but I am willing to believe that other teams know that as well. If we have to pay to dump him, then we would also have to pay to replace him. I hate the way he plays but when he has played with Steen and Brodz he has looked good they have good chemistry that's something that shouldn't be overlooked. I understand what you re saying though that the bottom six really needs to produce a bit more. Honestly though our bottom six has not been as designed right now in the sense of what I listed. Hell, it still really isn't that 3rd line suggestion is our 2nd line right now.

I really see no issue whatsoever of bringing Brodziak back and slotting him into the 3rd line. He has been pretty much our most consistent forward this whole year in terms of knowing what you are going to get from him night in and night out. Berglund/Sobotka as mentioned earlier I really don't know if you can justify dumping the contract unless another suitor really wants to pay to get them. I completely agree that one of the prospects can fill the role of 2RW and that's what I was trying (or thought I was saying) The initial post was meant to be hypothetical of JT signing. If not sure we should look to make an acquisition but to be honest with you I don't know at what price I would be willing to pay for a 2C when we have Thomas/Kyrou/Thompson in the system (fully understand that Thomas is probably the only natural center out of the group but nonetheless you never know until they get to this level and stay).

I guess the main point of the post in whole was our bottom 6 if we play it as our current 2nd and 3rd line is really a solid bottom 6. Could it use a slight rework? Absolutely but looking at cost to acquire and cost to dump of some of the players that may need to be shifted in/moved out could be not worth it when we have 2 solid lines that are familiar with one another and forming a current identity for themselves.

 

[Evocable Manager]

Schwartz-Schenn-Tarasenko
Fabbri-XXX-XXX
Steen-Berglund-XXX
Barbashev-Brodziak-Jaskin

Move Sobotka out to restock our draft picks or a prospect (I'm not expecting anyone high end). I think it's realistic to add a 2nd for him.

There's a realistic chance Thomas can fill the gap next to Steen and Berglund (moving Berglund to RW). But as it stands right now we could use two top six forwards. There's also a chance Kyrou fills one of the gaps himself. But that to me isn't as probable as Thomas. Blais could probably fit on the 4th line (moving Barbashev up to line 3) but I think that there's a realistic chance we could find a better player (increasing our depth).

Armstrong himself should know how those two will fair next season. If he's still unsure, then that's a huge issue.

 

[MissouriMook]

There is a serious need, and we can't let a small sample size be clouding our judgement.

Schwartz - Schenn - __?__
Fabbri - __?__ - Tarasenko
Steen - __?__ - __?__

1st line: Let the prospects fight it out for that role. We have quality RW prospects and they'll be playing with established players. If they aren't ready, we'll have other options.

2nd line: We need a proven centre. UFA signing or trade. If we're seeing Thomas as an option, that means we aren't making an acquisition and handing him the spot in the summer. If that is the mentality of management then we might as well retool because we aren't a serious contender in the short term. Fabbri is already a question mark with his injury issues, one question mark per line is plenty.

3rd line: Steen needs to be on LW. Armstrong has an approach of collecting players and letting the coach deal with the imbalance he creates. It needs to stop, it doesn't work. We're paying Steen $5.75m and will likely be the best player on the line, play him in his best position. We're at a point in the roster where we can look at Thomas being the centre. He doesn't need to be handed the role, Barbashev and others are competition for the bottom-6 centre roles. We need a middle-6 RW. It means if our RW prospect in the top-6 isn't working, that RW can move up the lineup. At that point, if we don't want 2 prospects on the third line then Jaškin or Soshnikov can fill in on the third line RW while our prospects get a few months in the AHL.

I don't want to imply that it is easy to do this, but we get far better roster balance, security and options with 2 appropriate acquisitions. That forces us to rework the bottom-6 to create space for prospects and find better balance.

As mentioned elsewhere, I think there is a high likelihood that at least one of Berglund or Sobotka fills in one of the blank spaces on the 3rd line. To me one of the biggest questions of the off season will be how many of the remaining three blanks are filled with premium acquisitions, either through trade (which could open another slot from a player going back) or UFA, and how many are left for open competition in camp from the Thomas, Kyrou, Thompson, Kostin, Sanford, Stevens, and Foley group.

My guess is that guys like Jaskin, Barbashev and Soshnikov are given a crack at a Top 9 role but they can be effective 4th liners and not Top 9 or bust. I do hope we find a way to bring Brodziak back at 4C despite the fact that it complicates the roster a bit for some of the young guys.

 

[Spektre]

Maybe a thread could exist with a poll for people to pick who they think will be actually traded. It would have to be specifically not who people want traded.

I'd bet Berglund is traded and Sobotka is kept.

 

[Captain Creampuff]

What do people think we do with Soshnikov?

 

[LetsGoBooze]

Maybe a thread could exist with a poll for people to pick who they think will be actually traded. It would have to be specifically not who people want traded.

I'd bet Berglund is traded and Sobotka is kept.

I agree and i'm 100% fine with that, as long as Sobotka is playing a 3rd line role. He hasn't been as physical but he has had a pretty darn productive year and is well worth his contract.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

What do people think we do with Soshnikov?

Resign him as a long term Upshall replacement on the 4th line.

 

[Weiss1604]

Just my two cents :
Firstly if Tavares is willing & an agreement can be made then it's a no brainer , personally i still think he stays on the island but you never know . Failing that as we all know we need a top 6 center , it would be unfair on Thomas to expect him to come in & be the man immediately . My personal target would be Sam Reinhardt , it would probably take Tage + peg 1st + Schmaltz/Walman+ somthing else & that's a price worth paying in my view . His age will fit perfectly with our plans & with Middlestadt going pro i think Buffalo will retool their rebuild slightly , he's a right shot & hasn't yet fulfilled Buffalo's expectations but i believe a change of scenery + added responsibility will allow him to grow as a player , he fits our like a silk glove . If Thomas exceeds expectations then Sam can move to wing or stay at centre but having quality down the middle = Bingo .
Secondly we need that 3rd line preferably right shot right winger , my target Josh Anderson , again his age fits with our core group & he brings that nasty edge that our top 9 are missing . What would it cost you ask ? Well Columbus may have interest as was earlier mentioned in Berglund & also maybe Gunnar as Johnson is leaving , add to one of those Sammy Blais & something else if needed too & maybe you have a deal .
I'd trade Sobotka for futures as their will be interest & takers in him. Oh & resign Brodz for one year , whilst Stevens/Musil get ready for business.
If we have to pay a little more for these players so be it as we've got the assets .
That would leave us with this as my personal preferred starting lines :
Schwartz-Schenn-Kyrou
Fabbri-Reinhardt-Tarasenko
Steen-Thomas-Anderson
Barbeshev-Brodziak-Sosh/Jaskin Extras sosh/jaskin + Sundquist or Thorburn

Eddie-Petro
Vince/Parayko
Boum/Walman-Bortz
Still unsure on Jake Allen & whether or not he's the right man for us , if not i don't think he'd be too difficult to trade (looking at you Garth Snow) , also not 100% sure on if i want Husso in the Ahl or backing up in the Nhl . If we went after Raanta for example i could definitely see him mentoring Husso as a 1/2 combination.
We would have some nice depth in San Antonio with players like Kostin,Stevens , Musil, Foley , Sandford only a phone call away if needed . In an ideal world i'd like to add a defence depth signing or two . We have some players like Barby for example who could move up & down the lineup giving us much needed flexibility.
Also on the many who question our power play & it's demerits ( mainly a lack of right-handed shot ) Jordon Kyrou says hi , as some know i'm extremely high on him but he's the ideal modern player & i for one fully expect him to come in & put up big numbers from the off & no i'm not being a homer or being short-sighted as players of his ilk have come in & set the league alight over the past 2/3 years , the game is getting younger .
In closing these are just examples but in my opinion the team above is a contender but i welcome any critique but please go easy lol , flame away .

 

[Blueston]

Seems like most folks are not including Tage in next year's lines. If he can get stronger and improve skating, very doable, he has makings of a fine player. Interesting to see how his first NHL season compares to same age with Timo Meier, who made big jump this year. Jaden Schwartz had similar improvement. Obviously Tage upside is tbd, but not unreasonable to expect him to hit 30+ points next year.

 

[BlueDream]

Realistically I think we could go hard at Tavares without adding anyone else and I’d still consider us a major contender.

Steen-Tavares-Tarasenko
Schwartz-Schenn-Thompson
Fabbri-Berglund-Thomas
Barbashev-Brodziak-Soshnikov

I let Sanford and Blais battle for the 13th spot. Whoever wins is a nice utility forward for depth that can probably fill in on any line.

That is a good lineup.

And if they find that they need a top 6 winger still, they can easily acquire one at the deadline with the assets we will still have (Kyrou, Kostin, Walman, etc). Next year would really be the time to go all in at the deadline for a Cup (that’s only if, of course, we have JT on the roster). On the above roster, replace Thompson with a guy like Hoffman (this is just an example) and that team is seriously dangerous. So, yeah, we could also make a move like this at the draft...but it’s not urgent.

 

[Novacain]

Kinda cringed at Thompson being given a top 9 forward role next year. I'd have Kyrou in it before Thompson at this point

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

Kinda cringed at Thompson being given a top 9 forward role next year. I'd have Kyrou in it before Thompson at this point

This comment is silly

 

[Novacain]

This comment is silly

Why? What has Thompson done to prove he should be be given Top 9 minutes next year, let alone the winger for Schwartz and Schenn?