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Proposal: Blues-Rangers

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If you want Shattenkirk before the end of the season you either:

1) have to hope the Blues tank this season and aren't in the position to make the playoffs

or

2) Make a "hockey trade" for him which will benefit both teams going into the playoffs.
 
The Blues will hold onto Shatty at the trade deadline and lose him for nothing on in the offseason. I don't see them selling him when they are going to be trying for a run themselves. The only way they trade him at the deadline is if they are somehow out of playoff contention.
 
Doctor King Schultz said:
The Blues will hold onto Shatty at the trade deadline and lose him for nothing on in the offseason. I don't see them selling him when they are going to be trying for a run themselves. The only way they trade him at the deadline is if they are somehow out of playoff contention.
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OR someone offers us a decent return that upgrades one of our centers, it will not likely happen but one can hope. If some team went nuts and offered two 1st rounders Armstrong would have to take it too, do not think anyone will think Shatty is the final piece of a cup run though.
 
If he wants to come to NY, he'll sign in the offseason as a free agent.

Otherwise, I don't see the Rangers paying Armstrong's price to acquire him unless it's significantly less than Blues fans are asking for here.
 
I think something like Zuccarello + Graves for Shattenkirk would make sense.

The Blues need a jump on offense and Graves is a promising lefty defenseman.

Zuccarello is a 50-60 point winger in his prime.

The Rangers need RHD more than anything and they have a good chance to resign Shattenkirk with Zucc's contract off the books.
 
Monument said:
If he wants to come to NY, he'll sign in the offseason as a free agent.

Otherwise, I don't see the Rangers paying Armstrong's price to acquire him unless it's significantly less than Blues fans are asking for here.
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We haven't really asked for anything here, just stating typical rental value. 1st+good or really good prospect+cap balance.
 
jasonfilatov said:
I think something like Zuccarello + Graves for Shattenkirk would make sense.

The Blues need a jump on offense and Graves is a promising lefty defenseman.

Zuccarello is a 50-60 point winger in his prime.

The Rangers need RHD more than anything and they have a good chance to resign Shattenkirk with Zucc's contract off the books.
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They are rumored to have already turned down Nash so I don't think they'd go for Zuke. I also don't think a pending UFA is worth one of our best wingers in any case.
 
Doctor King Schultz said:
They are rumored to have already turned down Nash so I don't think they'd go for Zuke. I also don't think a pending UFA is worth one of our best wingers in any case.
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Zuccarello > Nash IMO.

The only realistic pieces NY has that would be part of a deal for Shattenkirk are Zuccarello or JT Miller. Nash is too old and expensive (plus Blues already said no), Buchnevich and Vessey are too young and on ELCs which NY would be foolish to trade. Stephan, Hayes, Vessey, and Zibanejad aren't going anywhere. Blues don't need help on defense and wouldn't be interested in anyone other than McDonagh (who also isn't going anywhere).

I would be fine with a deal around Zuccarello as a return. The argument that Zucc is too high of a price for an UFA is not particularly convincing as there is little doubt that NY would be able to resign Shattenkirk for a reasonable price (6.5ish AAV). If you don't think that is worth Zuccarello then that's fine, but I think it would make the rangers a better team. The expansion draft complicates things a bit, but it would be pretty easy to maneuver around with a handshake deal or buyout.

Regardless, the Blues management has proven thus far they are perfectly content to wait out the market if the alternative is a bad deal.
 
stl76 said:
Zuccarello > Nash IMO.

The only realistic pieces NY has that would be part of a deal for Shattenkirk are Zuccarello or JT Miller. Nash is too old and expensive (plus Blues already said no), Buchnevich and Vessey are too young and on ELCs which NY would be foolish to trade. Stephan, Hayes, Vessey, and Zibanejad aren't going anywhere. Blues don't need help on defense and wouldn't be interested in anyone other than McDonagh (who also isn't going anywhere).

I would be fine with a deal around Zuccarello as a return. The argument that Zucc is too high of a price for an UFA is not particularly convincing as there is little doubt that NY would be able to resign Shattenkirk for a reasonable price (6.5ish AAV). If you don't think that is worth Zuccarello then that's fine, but I think it would make the rangers a better team. The expansion draft complicates things a bit, but it would be pretty easy to maneuver around with a handshake deal or buyout.

Regardless, the Blues management has proven thus far they are perfectly content to wait out the market if the alternative is a bad deal.
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What the hell I just read?
I mean, just because he likes our team that makes 3 months of Shattenkirk worth a top line 60 pt scoring winger, on his prime, and with 3 years left on his great 4.5M contract? (not 3 years, but 3 playoff runs).
 
Kanneda said:
What the hell I just read?
I mean, just because he likes our team that makes 3 months of Shattenkirk worth a top line 60 pt scoring winger, on his prime, and with 3 years left on his great 4.5M contract? (not 3 years, but 3 playoff runs).
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If you have good reading comprehension then you just read that the rangers would be trading for an extended Shattenkirk in terms of value. But you seem to be laboring under the impression that the rangers would be trading for 3 months of Shattenkirk.

"If you don't think that (Shattenkirk signed to a long term deal w/ AAV $6.5ish million) is worth Zuccarello then that's fine, but I think it would make the rangers a better team."

Pretty simple really, sorry you had trouble with it (it being the understanding that Shattenkirk would resign with the rangers at a reasonable cap hit...)
 
stl76 said:
If you have good reading comprehension then you just read that the rangers would be trading for an extended Shattenkirk in terms of value. But you seem to be laboring under the impression that the rangers would be trading for 3 months of Shattenkirk.

"If you don't think that (Shattenkirk signed to a long term deal w/ AAV $6.5ish million) is worth Zuccarello then that's fine, but I think it would make the rangers a better team."

Pretty simple really, sorry you had trouble with it (it being the understanding that Shattenkirk would resign with the rangers at a reasonable cap hit...)
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That's a big assumption and it definately won't increase his trade value for St Louis. We have no guarantees and not even the right to speak to his agent until we acquire him or until he hits free agency. He'll still want 6 or maybe 7 millions and it won't be an easy negotiation despite the home discount he's suppose to give.
A rumour can't increase his value from rental value to Zuccarello.
 
Kanneda said:
That's a big assumption and it definately won't increase his trade value for St Louis. We have no guarantees and not even the right to speak to his agent until we acquire him or until he hits free agency. He'll still want 6 or maybe 7 millions and it won't be an easy negotiation despite the home discount he's suppose to give.
A rumour can't increase his value from rental value to Zuccarello.
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Funny how whenever Shattenkirk trades are brought up, there is always a chorus of "don't give up assets for him, just wait till FA" from rangers fans and others, while at the same time posters say "there is no guarantee that he'll sign with us." So which is it?

That rhetorical question is really beside the point tho considering the Blues publicly stated during the offseason that they are willing to let other teams talk to his agent to work out a deal once the framework of a trade is in place. Not sure if that still applies, but it is certainly not out of the question.

Again, Blues management has proven thus far they are perfectly content to wait out the market if the alternative is a bad deal. Don't like the cost? Then wait it out and hope we don't trade him to someone less patient...and hope that those 3 playoff runs with Zuccarello aren't ruined by inadequate defense.
 
Kanneda said:
That's a big assumption and it definately won't increase his trade value for St Louis. We have no guarantees and not even the right to speak to his agent until we acquire him or until he hits free agency. He'll still want 6 or maybe 7 millions and it won't be an easy negotiation despite the home discount he's suppose to give.
A rumour can't increase his value from rental value to Zuccarello.
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You can speak to the agent, Armstrong just has to give permission, something he said he'd do.
 
Nothing of interest in this offer, rather keep him for another playoff run. If the Blues put him on the block during the deadline we would get a better return than this. Easy pass.
 
stl76 said:
If you have good reading comprehension then you just read that the rangers would be trading for an extended Shattenkirk in terms of value. But you seem to be laboring under the impression that the rangers would be trading for 3 months of Shattenkirk.

"If you don't think that (Shattenkirk signed to a long term deal w/ AAV $6.5ish million) is worth Zuccarello then that's fine, but I think it would make the rangers a better team."

Pretty simple really, sorry you had trouble with it (it being the understanding that Shattenkirk would resign with the rangers at a reasonable cap hit...)
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Prior to a trade, if St. Louis gave the Rangers permission to speak with Shattenkirk and his agent to pre negotiate an extension, I would agree.
 
I have often said on the Blues board that the Blues absolutely cannot lose Shattenkirk for nothing and they have to take the best offer on the table. So it speaks to the quality of the OP's offer that I'd pass even if this was the best offer available. From the Blues perspective, its basically nothing. Rangers fans might like the players involved. Fine, keep them. They are downgrades on what we have.

Klein is huge a downgrade on Shattenkirk and would be troublesome to protect for the expansion draft. Even if we could, we have Schmaltz coming up who has the potential to be a good Shattenkirk replacement. So we downgrade for the rest of the season and get no long term benefit.

Lindberg is not better than Stastny, Berglund or Lehtera, so he is not going to break into our top 9 centers. Brodziak is a force on our penalty kill, so we are not displacing him either as 4th line center. Lindberg offers us nothing now, and very little going forward as his ceiling isn't very high.

A late 2nd is a late 2nd. better than nothing but not worth downgrading Shattenkirk for this playoff run.

People get so caught up in "The team is desperate to unload the player, they'll take anything". So they offer spare parts and prove that sometimes "anything" is less than nothing.
 
Monument said:
Yeah which is not worth it.
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So you don't think Shattenkirk is worth standard deadline rental prices?

Kris Russell got a player, a prospect, and a second round pick that could turn into a first.

Keith Yandle was worth a player, a top prospect, a first, AND a second.

And you don't think Shattenkirk is worth a first and a prospect?!?
 
bluemandan said:
So you don't think Shattenkirk is worth standard deadline rental prices?

Kris Russell got a player, a prospect, and a second round pick that could turn into a first.

Keith Yandle was worth a player, a top prospect, a first, AND a second.

And you don't think Shattenkirk is worth a first and a prospect?!?
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That was the price of 2 playoff runs of Yandle with 50% retained, don't manipulate :laugh:

But yes, the price of Shattenkirk is 1st + good prospect. I don't think St Louis will be interested in that.
 
bluemandan said:
So you don't think Shattenkirk is worth standard deadline rental prices?

Kris Russell got a player, a prospect, and a second round pick that could turn into a first.

Keith Yandle was worth a player, a top prospect, a first, AND a second.

And you don't think Shattenkirk is worth a first and a prospect?!?
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For the Rangers? Absolutely not. They have something great here and the last thing they need to do is make another "win now" type of move and screw things up.

If they can make minor additions or ones that don't cost roster players or top prospects they should at that point, but a major move for someone like Shattenkirk when he's going to become a free agent doesn't help.

It's Yandle all over again.
 
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