Blues Forum Lounge (Home of All Things OT) - Part 2024-2025

[Drubilly]

The Ministry show last night was fantastic!!!

Die Krupps opened with a very short set, but it was great. They did three of my favorite songs of theirs; 'Nazis Auf Speed', ' To the Hilt' and 'Robosapien'.

Nitzer Ebb was weak. As aformentioned, Douglas McCarthy (58 y/o) is sick (cirrhosis), so his partner took on vocal duties. Not as good, but still fun. The whole crowd was fired up for 'Join In the Chant'.

Ministry played songs only from 1980-1985, which is extremely rare for them. Al Jourgensen had vowed many times that he would never play songs from 'With Sympathy' or 'Twitch'. People change their minds. 'With Sympathy' is kind of softer synth pop, but they did metallic re-mixes of those early songs. It was totally unexpected and f***ing great.

My buddy and I were laughing at how old most of the crowd was. No hair or grey hair. And then, in a most sobering fashion, a fan drove by us on his electric scooter. We laughed and exclaimed, We're old!

Al Jourgensen is 66.

Love it! I saw the Damned with the Donnas and OK Go! as openers years ago. I couldn’t believe all walks of life were in attendance. Saw a teenage punker with foot high spikes and donning a beat up jean jacket with a T Rex The Slider back patch. I wish I was as cool as he was at that age! The bands and the crowd were great. Probably one of my favorite all time shows. Saw the Bell-Rays at the Hi Pointe like a week before that gig too.

 

[bluesXwinXtheXcup]

I just finally watched 'A Midnight Clear' (1992). It made me feel extremely sad.

Now try Birdy.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Now try Birdy.

I have and read the book and took notes and shared those notes here. And, yes, I know who wrote it.

 

[The Note]

Is there some trick to not being prompted for login info multiple times a day even though I’ve selected “keep me logged in”? I’ve tried clearing history, cookies, etc.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Intermission music.............

 

[Memento]

Won bronze in Kansas City's boccia tournament. With a silver in the St. Louis tournament, and a gold in Cleveland, that means that I have to work my ass off to medal in Alabama, because the competition's only getting tougher.

 

[Drubilly]

Won bronze in Kansas City's boccia tournament. With a silver in the St. Louis tournament, and a gold in Cleveland, that means that I have to work my ass off to medal in Alabama, because the competition's only getting tougher.

You can do it! “Toss the f outta them balls Dale!”

 

[Memento]

Sorry for hogging this, but I came up with a new (unprompted) story idea in a dream.

It's about a fantasy world where there's a legend about a Goddess who used the moon to destroy the world after an arrogant king proclaimed himself as the one true God and tried to attack the Goddess. The moon cracked and spread its fragments upon a portion of the human populace with birthmarks of either a right-side-up crescent moon marking or an upside-down crescent moon marking, portraying future actions - for fair or ill, respectively - and gifting them powers. Hence, they're referred to as "Moonborn" (the title of the story, by the way).

Then comes a prophecy that a child who has markings of both will destroy the kingdom, and the kingdom, having grown corrupt and decadent after many years, sends its army to find and kill the kid. A boy on a farm, Jeremiah, is born with both markings on his wrists, and his family hides out in the mountainous wilderness to protect him, teaching him various skills to survive...until he turns twelve, and the army wipes his family out to find him.

From there, the dream turned odd; Jeremiah climbed up a mountain to survive, where he's found by an older man who sends him to the city to survive, not wanting to deal with him. Jeremiah wanders the streets (his birthmarks hidden by dirt and grime) until a guard - with a girl the same age in tow - brings them to the resident school for "truancy".

Jeremiah excels in the survivalist things, but is completely clueless about history and the like, but eventually has to escape the guards after a teacher alerts them about his birthmarks. He manages to get to the slums, and hides out in a place where the guards can't find him...but the same girl finds him and hides out in the same place, revealing that she's a Moonborn as well.

They escape into the sewers after a guard comes too close to finding their hiding spot, trying to find some more Moonborn...and that's all I dreamed of.

Does that sound similar to any other story? Because I swear, I dreamed this without reading any similar story to this (I rarely read new stories nowadays for this reason.), and I'm excited about it.

 

[Majorityof1]

Sorry for hogging this, but I came up with a new (unprompted) story idea in a dream.

It's about a fantasy world where there's a legend about a Goddess who used the moon to destroy the world after an arrogant king proclaimed himself as the one true God and tried to attack the Goddess. The moon cracked and spread its fragments upon a portion of the human populace with birthmarks of either a right-side-up crescent moon marking or an upside-down crescent moon marking, portraying future actions - for fair or ill, respectively - and gifting them powers. Hence, they're referred to as "Moonborn" (the title of the story, by the way).

Then comes a prophecy that a child who has markings of both will destroy the kingdom, and the kingdom, having grown corrupt and decadent after many years, sends its army to find and kill the kid. A boy on a farm, Jeremiah, is born with both markings on his wrists, and his family hides out in the mountainous wilderness to protect him, teaching him various skills to survive...until he turns twelve, and the army wipes his family out to find him.

From there, the dream turned odd; Jeremiah climbed up a mountain to survive, where he's found by an older man who sends him to the city to survive, not wanting to deal with him. Jeremiah wanders the streets (his birthmarks hidden by dirt and grime) until a guard - with a girl the same age in tow - brings them to the resident school for "truancy".

Jeremiah excels in the survivalist things, but is completely clueless about history and the like, but eventually has to escape the guards after a teacher alerts them about his birthmarks. He manages to get to the slums, and hides out in a place where the guards can't find him...but the same girl finds him and hides out in the same place, revealing that she's a Moonborn as well.

They escape into the sewers after a guard comes too close to finding their hiding spot, trying to find some more Moonborn...and that's all I dreamed of.

Does that sound similar to any other story? Because I swear, I dreamed this without reading any similar story to this (I rarely read new stories nowadays for this reason.), and I'm excited about it.

I read a lot of Fantasy. I am pretty sure I have not read that story before. The only thing I can think of regarding a Goddess and the destruction of the moon is an Aztec myth which IIRC the moon goddess is destroyed and torn apart by her brother who throws her head into the sky to become the moon. I will say, and I don't mean this in a bad way, but it has a lot of common tropes or subversions of tropes that have been done before.

There is the chosen one is a trope and even the farm boy chosen one (Star Wars, Harry Potter, Wheel of Time, etc). The subversion of that trope that they may not be chosen for good (destroy the world) has been done as well (Mistborn, Dune, Fifth Element). Magic users being marked and ostracized or hunted (Lycanus trilogy, Wheel of Time) as well as precognition of future crimes (Minority report). Lunar magic is very Wiccan, as the waxing and waning of the moon determine what types of magic are used. I will say you got me with how you subverted the old wise mentor trope. "Where he is found by an older man who...." kicks his ass out of the mountains and says leave me alone lol

That said, almost the entire genre is either tropes or twist on tropes. The best work comes in how you combine them, how you build the characters and the world, how compelling the writing, pacing, action, drama is, how good the prose is, what meaning you can convey and how well it hits people. There is a story with what you got. But it's the start of an outline. It's up to you to give it flesh and bring it to life.

As for where it came from, dreams are the detritus floating in our head bundled together and given life. You think a lot about fantasy. You have probably thought about all these tropes. Your sub-conscience mind put it together into a story for you.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Sorry for hogging this, but I came up with a new (unprompted) story idea in a dream.

It's about a fantasy world where there's a legend about a Goddess who used the moon to destroy the world after an arrogant king proclaimed himself as the one true God and tried to attack the Goddess. The moon cracked and spread its fragments upon a portion of the human populace with birthmarks of either a right-side-up crescent moon marking or an upside-down crescent moon marking, portraying future actions - for fair or ill, respectively - and gifting them powers. Hence, they're referred to as "Moonborn" (the title of the story, by the way).

Then comes a prophecy that a child who has markings of both will destroy the kingdom, and the kingdom, having grown corrupt and decadent after many years, sends its army to find and kill the kid. A boy on a farm, Jeremiah, is born with both markings on his wrists, and his family hides out in the mountainous wilderness to protect him, teaching him various skills to survive...until he turns twelve, and the army wipes his family out to find him.

From there, the dream turned odd; Jeremiah climbed up a mountain to survive, where he's found by an older man who sends him to the city to survive, not wanting to deal with him. Jeremiah wanders the streets (his birthmarks hidden by dirt and grime) until a guard - with a girl the same age in tow - brings them to the resident school for "truancy".

Jeremiah excels in the survivalist things, but is completely clueless about history and the like, but eventually has to escape the guards after a teacher alerts them about his birthmarks. He manages to get to the slums, and hides out in a place where the guards can't find him...but the same girl finds him and hides out in the same place, revealing that she's a Moonborn as well.

They escape into the sewers after a guard comes too close to finding their hiding spot, trying to find some more Moonborn...and that's all I dreamed of.

Does that sound similar to any other story? Because I swear, I dreamed this without reading any similar story to this (I rarely read new stories nowadays for this reason.), and I'm excited about it.

You’re not hogging at all. It’s the OT thread. Love the creativity in your post.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Sorry for hogging this, but I came up with a new (unprompted) story idea in a dream.

It's about a fantasy world where there's a legend about a Goddess who used the moon to destroy the world after an arrogant king proclaimed himself as the one true God and tried to attack the Goddess. The moon cracked and spread its fragments upon a portion of the human populace with birthmarks of either a right-side-up crescent moon marking or an upside-down crescent moon marking, portraying future actions - for fair or ill, respectively - and gifting them powers. Hence, they're referred to as "Moonborn" (the title of the story, by the way).

Then comes a prophecy that a child who has markings of both will destroy the kingdom, and the kingdom, having grown corrupt and decadent after many years, sends its army to find and kill the kid. A boy on a farm, Jeremiah, is born with both markings on his wrists, and his family hides out in the mountainous wilderness to protect him, teaching him various skills to survive...until he turns twelve, and the army wipes his family out to find him.

From there, the dream turned odd; Jeremiah climbed up a mountain to survive, where he's found by an older man who sends him to the city to survive, not wanting to deal with him. Jeremiah wanders the streets (his birthmarks hidden by dirt and grime) until a guard - with a girl the same age in tow - brings them to the resident school for "truancy".

Jeremiah excels in the survivalist things, but is completely clueless about history and the like, but eventually has to escape the guards after a teacher alerts them about his birthmarks. He manages to get to the slums, and hides out in a place where the guards can't find him...but the same girl finds him and hides out in the same place, revealing that she's a Moonborn as well.

They escape into the sewers after a guard comes too close to finding their hiding spot, trying to find some more Moonborn...and that's all I dreamed of.

Does that sound similar to any other story? Because I swear, I dreamed this without reading any similar story to this (I rarely read new stories nowadays for this reason.), and I'm excited about it.

I see so many stories making references to ancient prophecies, but often there is no attempt to establish the credibility of the prophecy. There is no one that seems to have the power or believability to make a proclamation of that nature. It can be a lazy mechanism. I’d like to see a mythology that can sustain a class capable of giving prophecies, otherwise why does anyone believe it or pass it down?

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I see so many stories making references to ancient prophecies, but often there is no attempt to establish the credibility of the prophecy. There is no one that seems to have the power or believability to make a proclamation of that nature. It can be a lazy mechanism. I’d like to see a mythology that can sustain a class capable of giving prophecies, otherwise why does anyone believe it or pass it down?

Believability is like a virus. Once one catches it, the belief spreads.

There’s also the matter of engineered timelines and collective perception agreements.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Believability is like a virus. Once one catches it, the belief spreads.

There’s also the matter of engineered timelines and collective perception agreements.

I can’t tell if you’re trying to suggest a storytelling mechanism. I’m not following your comment at all in that context. This reads more like contemporary political commentary. I was responding to the requested feedback for Memento’s story.

 

[Majorityof1]

I see so many stories making references to ancient prophecies, but often there is no attempt to establish the credibility of the prophecy. There is no one that seems to have the power or believability to make a proclamation of that nature. It can be a lazy mechanism. I’d like to see a mythology that can sustain a class capable of giving prophecies, otherwise why does anyone believe it or pass it down?

Interesting point. I started to think of prophecies in literature, mythology etc. I can think of very few that speak to the reliability of the prophecy in a meaningful way. The best example is the mythology of Cassandra, cursed to see the true future but never be believed. It is a great device for greek tragedy with a built in reasoning.

Harry Potter actually does a good job addressing that there are true prophecies in the world, but they are rare. Because if their existence, it actually causes a bunch more that are hokum. It's less successful at delineating why some are true from my memory. It also tackles the self-fulfilling nature of prophecy.

I don't necessarily think it's a lazy mechanic on its face. I think tropes and crutches are useful in storytelling but only if you do something interesting with them.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Interesting point. I started to think of prophecies in literature, mythology etc. I can think of very few that speak to the reliability of the prophecy in a meaningful way. The best example is the mythology of Cassandra, cursed to see the true future but never be believed. It is a great device for greek tragedy with a built in reasoning.

Harry Potter actually does a good job addressing that there are true prophecies in the world, but they are rare. Because if their existence, it actually causes a bunch more that are hokum. It's less successful at delineating why some are true from my memory. It also tackles the self-fulfilling nature of prophecy.

I don't necessarily think it's a lazy mechanic on its face. I think tropes and crutches are useful in storytelling but only if you do something interesting with them.

My larger point is - if you are writing a story from whole cloth, be thoughtful about any prophecy that is a story telling device. I actually think seeing a largely anticipated FALSE prophecy could be even more interesting.

Dune maybe does the best job of widely known stories with regard to examining the mechanism and truthfulness of the prophecy mechanics.

I just want to know - why did these people pass this down and believe it? What source would hold that kind of credibility in times past? Is there a corresponding similarly credible source NOW? Why not?

There must be other prophecies that have already come to pass. What was the purpose for those?

I like stories that challenge assumptions, or even better that use assumptions we haven’t realized we’ve made and then twist them around on us later.

 

[Majorityof1]

My larger point is - if you are writing a story from whole cloth, be thoughtful about any prophecy that is a story telling device. I actually think seeing a largely anticipated FALSE prophecy could be even more interesting.

Dune maybe does the best job of widely known stories with regard to examining the mechanism and truthfulness of the prophecy mechanics.

I just want to know - why did these people pass this down and believe it? What source would hold that kind of credibility in times past? Is there a corresponding similarly credible source NOW? Why not?

There must be other prophecies that have already come to pass. What was the purpose for those?

I like stories that challenge assumptions, or even better that use assumptions we haven’t realized we’ve made and then twist them around on us later.

I need to read Dune again. I know it subverted the trope but I don't remember the details. I read it as an early teen and I only read the first book. I have the first 2 in my kindle library but I have a big TBR as well..

I agree on your broader point. That is what I meant by doing something interesting. You can use a lazy trope to make the audience comfortable in their assumptions then twist it. Or analyze the underpinings of the trope. That goes for all tropes, including prophecy.

 

[Memento]

I see so many stories making references to ancient prophecies, but often there is no attempt to establish the credibility of the prophecy. There is no one that seems to have the power or believability to make a proclamation of that nature. It can be a lazy mechanism. I’d like to see a mythology that can sustain a class capable of giving prophecies, otherwise why does anyone believe it or pass it down?

Hmm...definitely could do something with that (and have done something like that in one of my other stories, a magical class called a "shaman" being the recipient for past and future sight). A false prophecy is interesting, but I really want to subvert expectations with all of my stories. Maybe something having to do with superstition about Moonborn and how they're perceived, and thus the superstitions are proven right? Each of the Moonborn has a set of physical powers added to their bodies having to do with who they are as people (i.e., a cowardly and shy person could have cloaking powers, a brave and foolhardy person could have toughened skin, etc.).

Mind you, this idea literally came from a dream of mine. It's still being fleshed out in its entirety. I've had some crazy ideas coming from dreams that were later on fleshed out by thinking of them. And I love hearing all of your thoughts on how to make my stories better. That's the key thing for me: making them better for the story itself.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

One time I had a dream about this amazing song I was going to compose, this amazing epiphany. I woke up and started writing the words and music.

It was incoherent garbage! But in the dream it seemed so poignant.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I need to read Dune again. I know it subverted the trope a but byt U don't remember tge details. I read it as an early teen and I only read the first book. I have the first 2 in my kindle library but I have a big TBR as well..

I agree on your broader point. That is what I meant by doing something interesting. You can use a lazy trope to make the audience comfortable in their assumptions then twist it. Or analyze the underpinings of the trope. That goes for all tropes, including prophecy.

Although I enjoyed them, the recent movie treatments went a different direction regarding Paul Atreides.

There were prophecies that were deliberately planted as a way to control the masses (by the Bene Gesserit). There were local Fremen legends that presumedly grew out of that generations long effort.

Paul arrived and the Bene Gesserit breeding efforts thought he would be their pawn and was going to make use of their cultural preparations. Turns out he started fulfilling the Fremen prophecies and exerting power beyond what they expected from their efforts, like a real Messiah. Frank Herbert left it a lot more ambiguous what was real and what was self-fulfilling.

If you read further in Herbert’s series, it becomes more clear, but the original Dune novel itself was ruthlessly ambiguous about the authenticity of the Fremen prophecies of a Messiah.

In the novel Chani was Paul’s lover and greatest believer. In the 2nd movie the director went a little overboard with both her skepticism and Stilgar’s cartoonish faith in him.

 

[Memento]

One time I had a dream about this amazing song I was going to compose, this amazing epiphany. I woke up and started writing the words and music.

It was incoherent garbage! But in the dream it seemed so poignant.

It's actually...weird. I guess it's because of my autism (yes, I have autism. Shocking, I know.), but I can weave anything from a dream, no matter how farfetched. I literally have a story about anthropomorphic birds in a Prohibition-like world (with pouches so that they can carry ammo for their modified guns, cigarettes, etc.. Bigger the bird, bigger the pouch, but smaller birds have their own advantages.), so nothing's off-limits for me.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

It's actually...weird. I guess it's because of my autism (yes, I have autism. Shocking, I know.), but I can weave anything from a dream, no matter how farfetched. I literally have a story about anthropomorphic birds in a Prohibition-like world (with pouches so that they can carry ammo for their modified guns, cigarettes, etc.. Bigger the bird, bigger the pouch, but smaller birds have their own advantages.), so nothing's off-limits for me.

THAT sounds like a fun story.

 

[taylord22]

Although I enjoyed them, the recent movie treatments went a different direction regarding Paul Atreides.

There were prophecies that were deliberately planted as a way to control the masses (by the Bene Gesserit). There were local Fremen legends that presumedly grew out of that generations long effort.

Paul arrived and the Bene Gesserit breeding efforts thought he would be their pawn and was going to make use of their cultural preparations. Turns out he started fulfilling the Fremen prophecies and exerting power beyond what they expected from their efforts, like a real Messiah. Frank Herbert left it a lot more ambiguous what was real and what was self-fulfilling.

If you read further in Herbert’s series, it becomes more clear, but the original Dune novel itself was ruthlessly ambiguous about the authenticity of the Fremen prophecies of a Messiah.

In the novel Chani was Paul’s lover and greatest believer. In the 2nd movie the director went a little overboard with both her skepticism and Stilgar’s cartoonish faith in him.

I thought the Chani/Stilgar switch was fairly clever and played better than the book...in 2022-2024, at least. Chani's skepticism speaks to the Fremen strength better. I agree, though, that they went overboard with Stilgar's faith. Obviously intently done to get some laughs snuck in there, but still...

Do we know if Denis is doing a hybrid of Book 2 and 3?

I liked Dune the first time I read it, but the one that -really- grabbed me is Hyperion. I hope to see it get a Dune-quality adaptation one-day.

 

[SirPaste]

I thought the Chani/Stilgar switch was fairly clever and played better than the book...in 2022-2024, at least. Chani's skepticism speaks to the Fremen strength better. I agree, though, that they went overboard with Stilgar's faith. Obviously intently done to get some laughs snuck in there, but still...

Do we know if Denis is doing a hybrid of Book 2 and 3?

I liked Dune the first time I read it, but the one that -really- grabbed me is Hyperion. I hope to see it get a Dune-quality adaptation one-day.

Hyperion projects have been in the works then died several times over the last 15 or so years. I think Bradley Cooper owned the movie rights at one point, not sure if he still does. Think it would work better as a TV Show if given to right amount of budget and done well. Anyways I am with you and would love to see that happen.

 

[Memento]

THAT sounds like a fun story.

Yep, it is. Have it all planned out, beginning to end; I just have to write the damned thing.

 

[taylord22]

Hyperion projects have been in the works then died several times over the last 15 or so years. I think Bradley Cooper owned the movie rights at one point, not sure if he still does. Think it would work better as a TV Show if given to right amount of budget and done well. Anyways I am with you and would love to see that happen.

I agree. Spending adequate time with the various tones/worlds is probably a necessity. Apple is spending big $$$ on sci-fi and Netflix is about to lose two of their biggest genre shows...my fingers will remain crossed someone has the balls to try it.

...remaining hopeful as well that Flanagan's -faithful- Dark Tower adaptation gets off the ground.