OT: Blues Forum Lounge (Home of All Things OT) - Part 2019

[A Real Barn Burner]

You had said something about how his writing group forced him to finish the last book. I occasionally do a winds of winter news search on the ever so faint hope he announces a release. A lot of the updates have said he secluded himself in the same remote cabin where he finished Dance with Dragons. But one of the quotes in one article said something about his friends locking him away until he finishes it. That lent credence to what you said, but also gave me hope. If they did it once, maybe they can again.

But if he really has no interest/ability in finishing it, he should co-author it with someone who does have the desire to finish it. I don't think Jordan was capable of finishing Wheel of Time, even had he strayed healthy and alive. Some people are just better at creating worlds, and not wrapping up narratives. To them every little detail of the world is important enough to need its own ending. An outsider can come in and say, here are the important plotlines we need to wrap up, and here is the garbage we need to let go. I'd definitely be ok if Winds was written by a talented up-and-coming fantasy author working with Martin's advice and guidance, much like Sanderson did with Jordan's wife and editor. I don't think Sanderson is a fit stylistically, but maybe Joe Abecrombie or Brent Weeks (I recomend both for those that read a lot of fantasy), if not one of the friends in his writing group.

I think Jordan would of finished it, and as much as I love Sanderson, I would have been happier for it. Jordan moved the plot a massive amount in book 10. Would he have needed 3 more books like Sanderson? I think so maybe even more. Either way the last battle would of been so much better. Epic large scale warfare and Mat are two things Sanderson can’t do.

GRRM does let people coauthor in his other series? Wildcards? I thought he did so maybe your on to something there still unless it’s a proper ghost author never feels quite the same when your reading someone else words.

 

[Memento]

As a hopeful fantasy writer, I'm disappointed in GRRM in not finishing his series. I'd kill to have a tenth of the fanbase he has, and...I don't know. It just seems like he couldn't give less of a shit about his loyal fans.

 

[Majorityof1]

I think Jordan would of finished it, and as much as I love Sanderson, I would have been happier for it. Jordan moved the plot a massive amount in book 10. Would he have needed 3 more books like Sanderson? I think so maybe even more. Either way the last battle would of been so much better. Epic large scale warfare and Mat are two things Sanderson can’t do.

GRRM does let people coauthor in his other series? Wildcards? I thought he did so maybe your on to something there still unless it’s a proper ghost author never feels quite the same when your reading someone else words.

I assume you meant book 11, Knife of Dreams, that Jordan got the ball rolling in the right direction again, as that was his last book. Book 10, Crossroads of Twilight, is widely considered to be the most bloated WoT book. It mostly deals with characters reacting to the major event in book 9 without moving their plots forward until some surprise at the end. I don't remember having an issue with Sanderson's depiction of Mat or the Last Battle, but my expectations were tempered on both counts. No author coming into someone else's series will get every voice right, even Jordan had fairly different characterizations from book to book. I definitely appreciate Sanderson changes to the female protagonists. As for the Last Battle, you cannot possibly live up to the hype of a 13 book build-up. There were definitely great character moments in it, and that is something much more important to me than a massively scaled battle. I think its true to Jordan as well to focus on the character moments over the clash of armies. But its been 6+ years since I have touched any of those books, and I only read aMoL the once. So take it with a grain of salt.

I think Martin just edits Wild Cards and helped create the framework for the stories. But the individual stories are written by other authors and they all take place in a shared world created in part by Martin. That is how it was originally conceived though, so it may be easier to share than ASoIaF which he always envisioned as his own.

Since a few of you obviously like this genre of books, any recommendations on a completed series to read while I wait for Book 6? I am currently reading Tad Williams's 1st Otherland book, and man is it a slog for me. I loved his Memory Sorrow and Thorn, but am having to force my way through his 2nd series. I have Scott Lynch's gentleman bastard books, but am going to wait for signs he will finish the series before diving in. I have Grossman's Magicians trilogy but opposite of GoT, I want the show to pass the books first since it was my intro to that series. I have read at least some of Abecrombie, Weeks, Sanderson, Jensin, Brooks, Goodkind, Hobb, Feist, Rothfuss, Martin, Tolkien, Lawrence, and Eddings. Anyone else?

 

[brokeu91]

I assume you meant book 11, Knife of Dreams, that Jordan got the ball rolling in the right direction again, as that was his last book. Book 10, Crossroads of Twilight, is widely considered to be the most bloated WoT book. It mostly deals with characters reacting to the major event in book 9 without moving their plots forward until some surprise at the end. I don't remember having an issue with Sanderson's depiction of Mat or the Last Battle, but my expectations were tempered on both counts. No author coming into someone else's series will get every voice right, even Jordan had fairly different characterizations from book to book. I definitely appreciate Sanderson changes to the female protagonists. As for the Last Battle, you cannot possibly live up to the hype of a 13 book build-up. There were definitely great character moments in it, and that is something much more important to me than a massively scaled battle. I think its true to Jordan as well to focus on the character moments over the clash of armies. But its been 6+ years since I have touched any of those books, and I only read aMoL the once. So take it with a grain of salt.

I think Martin just edits Wild Cards and helped create the framework for the stories. But the individual stories are written by other authors and they all take place in a shared world created in part by Martin. That is how it was originally conceived though, so it may be easier to share than ASoIaF which he always envisioned as his own.

Since a few of you obviously like this genre of books, any recommendations on a completed series to read while I wait for Book 6? I am currently reading Orson Scott Card's 1st Otherland book, and man is it a slog for me. I loved his Memory Sorrow and Thorn, but am having to force my way through his 2nd series. I have Scott Lynch's gentleman bastard books, but am going to wait for signs he will finish the series before diving in. I have Grossman's Magicians trilogy but opposite of GoT, I want the show to pass the books first since it was my intro to that series. I have read at least some of Abecrombie, Weeks, Sanderson, Jensin, Brooks, Goodkind, Hobb, Feist, Rothfuss, Martin, Tolkien, Lawrence, and Eddings. Anyone else?

Red Rising series is good especially the first one

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

You had said something about how his writing group forced him to finish the last book. I occasionally do a winds of winter news search on the ever so faint hope he announces a release. A lot of the updates have said he secluded himself in the same remote cabin where he finished Dance with Dragons. But one of the quotes in one article said something about his friends locking him away until he finishes it. That lent credence to what you said, but also gave me hope. If they did it once, maybe they can again.

But if he really has no interest/ability in finishing it, he should co-author it with someone who does have the desire to finish it. I don't think Jordan was capable of finishing Wheel of Time, even had he strayed healthy and alive. Some people are just better at creating worlds, and not wrapping up narratives. To them every little detail of the world is important enough to need its own ending. An outsider can come in and say, here are the important plotlines we need to wrap up, and here is the garbage we need to let go. I'd definitely be ok if Winds was written by a talented up-and-coming fantasy author working with Martin's advice and guidance, much like Sanderson did with Jordan's wife and editor. I don't think Sanderson is a fit stylistically, but maybe Joe Abecrombie or Brent Weeks (I recomend both for those that read a lot of fantasy), if not one of the friends in his writing group.

I bet George BELIEVES he will finish it, but if he were more honest with himself would realize he’s lost the appetite to do it. But he doesn’t want to lose creative control (regarding the co-author idea). I know there were some issues around the HBO team taking the story past the novels, and I’m sure the initial plan was that he would outpace the program with his published material. I also have no doubt HBO built a solution to that in the contracts so that they could proceed when they needed to.

The way I understand the last novel happening, I’m not sure how much of this was ever meant to be public and my wife is the one who actually knows these people, is this:
George had lots of written material in disorganized condition. Sketches of what characters were doing here and there. They took his notes and decided he had enough material for a novel. The forced some organization onto it, possibly even doing some of the work for him to pull it together. But some talented loving friends who are also published authors basically manhandled it into a novel.

So...he HAD been working on the story, off and on, but his effort has grown more and more diffuse and less motivated to my view. You know how long passed between the last two books’ publications. Does he have another pile of material ready to go? Without the embarrassment of falling behind the HBO shooting schedule to motivate him, I wager he does not. Probably there is something. But if there is, I don’t see how it’s moving toward plot resolution, and I’m not sure the process could be repeated effectively.

My source for this is my wife relaying conversations she has had with one or two of those writer friends. We used to live in Albuquerque and she was friends (for example with Ty Franck, who at the time I met her was George’s personal assistant. Currently, he is half of the James S A Corey writing team responsible for The Expanse series (books and sci-fi show. Also friends with Daniel Abraham, the other half of that group).

Boarding my plane now.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Regarding fantasy recommendations:
Anything by Daniel Abraham.
The Dagger and the Coin series
The Long Price series

I read the Long Price first, and it was great but maybe more serious-toned. I thought Dagger and Coin was a bit brighter and scarier, and had a more engaging longer story to me.
I have recently started reading Joe Abercrombie. Anything he writes is an autoread for me now.

 

[AjaxManifesto]

I bet George BELIEVES he will finish it, but if he were more honest with himself would realize he’s lost the appetite to do it. But he doesn’t want to lose creative control (regarding the co-author idea). I know there were some issues around the HBO team taking the story past the novels, and I’m sure the initial plan was that he would outpace the program with his published material. I also have no doubt HBO built a solution to that in the contracts so that they could proceed when they needed to.

The way I understand the last novel happening, I’m not sure how much of this was ever meant to be public and my wife is the one who actually knows these people, is this:
George had lots of written material in disorganized condition. Sketches of what characters were doing here and there. They took his notes and decided he had enough material for a novel. The forced some organization onto it, possibly even doing some of the work for him to pull it together. But some talented loving friends who are also published authors basically manhandled it into a novel.

So...he HAD been working on the story, off and on, but his effort has grown more and more diffuse and less motivated to my view. You know how long passed between the last two books’ publications. Does he have another pile of material ready to go? Without the embarrassment of falling behind the HBO shooting schedule to motivate him, I wager he does not. Probably there is something. But if there is, I don’t see how it’s moving toward plot resolution, and I’m not sure the process could be repeated effectively.

My source for this is my wife relaying conversations she has had with one or two of those writer friends. We used to live in Albuquerque and she was friends (for example with Ty Franck, who at the time I met her was George’s personal assistant. Currently, he is half of the James S A Corey writing team responsible for The Expanse series (books and sci-fi show. Also friends with Daniel Abraham, the other half of that group).

Boarding my plane now.

Love the Expanse show and books.

 

[Majorityof1]

Red Rising series is good especially the first one

Added to my Kindle shopping list. Thanks. I had not heard of this one. Looks more sci-fi which I only dabble with but the class system stuff sounds interesting.

Regarding fantasy recommendations:
Anything by Daniel Abraham.
The Dagger and the Coin series
The Long Price series

I read the Long Price first, and it was great but maybe more serious-toned. I thought Dagger and Coin was a bit brighter and scarier, and had a more engaging longer story to me.
I have recently started reading Joe Abercrombie. Anything he writes is an autoread for me now.

I actually read the first book in the Long Price Quartet, but never read another. I enjoyed it, so I am not quite sure why I stopped. I did check his stuff out because of his connection to Martin, but enjoyed the book on its won merits. I'll have to go back to it soon.

Abecrombie is an auto read for me too. I loved the First Law books, the trilogy and the 3 side books. But I wasn't as keen on Shattered Sea Trilogy. It was geared for the a YA audience though. It lost a lot of the grit that made first law so good. Still a decent read but none of the subsequent stuff touches his first trilogy. I'm looking forward to his next trilogy which is in the first law world. First book releases in September and the first drafts of the 2nd and 3rd books are already done, so it should be annual releases . I will be waiting to read it for a bit though. I want to reread Brent Weeks Lightbringer series in September and October before the final book comes out in late October. I highly recommend Weeks. Both Lightbringer and Night Angel are very good.

 

[TK 421]

Not fantasy but I strongly recommend a pair of authors in the Sci Fi genre.

Dan Abnett's Inquisitor books (Eisenhorn, Ravenor)

Aaron Dembski-Bowden's Night Lords Series

Just some of my favs.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Added to my Kindle shopping list. Thanks. I had not heard of this one. Looks more sci-fi which I only dabble with but the class system stuff sounds interesting.



I actually read the first book in the Long Price Quartet, but never read another. I enjoyed it, so I am not quite sure why I stopped. I did check his stuff out because of his connection to Martin, but enjoyed the book on its won merits. I'll have to go back to it soon.

Abecrombie is an auto read for me too. I loved the First Law books, the trilogy and the 3 side books. But I wasn't as keen on Shattered Sea Trilogy. It was geared for the a YA audience though. It lost a lot of the grit that made first law so good. Still a decent read but none of the subsequent stuff touches his first trilogy. I'm looking forward to his next trilogy which is in the first law world. First book releases in September and the first drafts of the 2nd and 3rd books are already done, so it should be annual releases . I will be waiting to read it for a bit though. I want to reread Brent Weeks Lightbringer series in September and October before the final book comes out in late October. I highly recommend Weeks. Both Lightbringer and Night Angel are very good.

I don’t read much fantasy fare. My wife reads lots, and she really loves Robin Hobbs work. You’ve all but exhausted my repertoire.

Xanth? (I refuse to add an emogi)

 

[brokeu91]

Added to my Kindle shopping list. Thanks. I had not heard of this one. Looks more sci-fi which I only dabble with but the class system stuff sounds interesting.

It is more Sci-fi than fantasy, but the first book was incredible. The next two books are more about the politics of the system. Even my wife who does not care for fantasy or Sci-fi loved Red Rising

 

[A Real Barn Burner]

I assume you meant book 11, Knife of Dreams, that Jordan got the ball rolling in the right direction again, as that was his last book. Book 10, Crossroads of Twilight, is widely considered to be the most bloated WoT book. It mostly deals with characters reacting to the major event in book 9 without moving their plots forward until some surprise at the end. I don't remember having an issue with Sanderson's depiction of Mat or the Last Battle, but my expectations were tempered on both counts. No author coming into someone else's series will get every voice right, even Jordan had fairly different characterizations from book to book. I definitely appreciate Sanderson changes to the female protagonists. As for the Last Battle, you cannot possibly live up to the hype of a 13 book build-up. There were definitely great character moments in it, and that is something much more important to me than a massively scaled battle. I think its true to Jordan as well to focus on the character moments over the clash of armies. But its been 6+ years since I have touched any of those books, and I only read aMoL the once. So take it with a grain of salt.

I think Martin just edits Wild Cards and helped create the framework for the stories. But the individual stories are written by other authors and they all take place in a shared world created in part by Martin. That is how it was originally conceived though, so it may be easier to share than ASoIaF which he always envisioned as his own.

Since a few of you obviously like this genre of books, any recommendations on a completed series to read while I wait for Book 6? I am currently reading Tad Williams's 1st Otherland book, and man is it a slog for me. I loved his Memory Sorrow and Thorn, but am having to force my way through his 2nd series. I have Scott Lynch's gentleman bastard books, but am going to wait for signs he will finish the series before diving in. I have Grossman's Magicians trilogy but opposite of GoT, I want the show to pass the books first since it was my intro to that series. I have read at least some of Abecrombie, Weeks, Sanderson, Jensin, Brooks, Goodkind, Hobb, Feist, Rothfuss, Martin, Tolkien, Lawrence, and Eddings. Anyone else?

Yes I did mean book 11, cant believe I messed that up considering how many times I reread that series. I agree with most of your assessment especially the female protagonists however, Sanderson writing on military strategy left me wanting more. I know it’s hard to compare with Jordan who because of his military citadel training was probably one of the best at writing battles. So your right to temper expectations.

The only two authors off the top of my head not on your list above are; Naomi Novik “Temeraire” series historical set in Napeleonic times with high fantasy dragons and Robert V.S. Redick “Red Wolf Conspiricy series” for some high fantasy on the high seas.

 

[Vladdy the Impaler]

This weekend is going to be f***ing incredible.

-Blues playoffs round 2, games 1 and 2 at Enterprise
-Avengers: Endgame
-GoT Season 8, Episode 3 -- what is supposed to be the single longest continuous battle in TV and cinematic history

Plenty of boozing to take place.

 

[bluesXwinXtheXcup]

This weekend is going to be ****ing incredible.

-Blues playoffs round 2, games 1 and 2 at Enterprise
-Avengers: Endgame
-GoT Season 8, Episode 3 -- what is supposed to be the single longest continuous battle in TV and cinematic history

Plenty of boozing to take place.

Vlad was the first to use biological warfare ...random facts

 

[Vladdy the Impaler]

Crazy theory about how the Battle of Winterfell will play out (spoilers):

Spoiler

 

[David Dennison]

Crazy theory about how the Battle of Winterfell will play out (spoilers):

Spoiler

I guess the NK was stupid.

 

[Ranksu]

Pfff, we're bookers favorite team to win SC.

 

[bluebird enthusiast]

Never seen this many Tornado Warnings issued around my area since the aughts. Exciting weather until the PDS near my relatives' area was issued...hoping for the best

 

[Celtic Note]

Never seen this many Tornado Warnings issued around my area since the aughts. Exciting weather until the PDS near my relatives' area was issued...hoping for the best

Good luck. When I lived in Kansas every storm was a Tornado Watch/Warning waiting to happen.

In Chicago we got snow within the last week followed by a week of rain...and now some flooding. It still feels like winter here.pretty crazy stuff.

I expect our wether patters will continue to be increasingly insane.

Best of luck!

 

[LGB51]

Did you guys see Game of Thrones last week

 

[TK 421]

Did you guys see Game of Thrones last week

Guy: " Dothraki got smoked, that is NOT how you use cavalry..."

Girl: " OMG! Who cares about the Dothraki, where's Ghost?"

 

[LGB51]

Guy: " Dothraki got smoked, that is NOT how you use cavalry..."

Girl: " OMG! Who cares about the Dothraki, where's Ghost?"

Girl & STLomachenko both were more worried about Ghost I think we will eventually find out he met up with Arya's wolf in that pack. At least I hope.

 

[LGB51]

Guy: " Dothraki got smoked, that is NOT how you use cavalry..."

Girl: " OMG! Who cares about the Dothraki, where's Ghost?"

Also you just awarded me my Carolina Hurricane trophy with my 1700th like

*edit* I've received exactly 1200 likes since February 20, 2019 which was the day I got my 500 like trophy.

 

[TK 421]

Girl & STLomachenko both were more worried about Ghost I think we will eventually find out he met up with Arya's wolf in that pack. At least I hope.

Lol yeah honestly we were ALL more worried about Ghost cause he's a gud boi, yes he is.

 

[izzy]

that episode of thrones was so poorly written

visually amazing with some great scenes but such a f***ing mess