Half-Assed GDT: Blues @ Capitals 2/27 6PM FDSNMW | Winning Streak Edition!

[LetsGoBooze]

I hate this. If this winning streak ties DA's hands from making a move for the betterment of our future and our pick now drops out of the top ten, we may be stuck in the murky middle for years and years to come.

 

[Mike Liut]

I hate this. If this winning streak ties DA's hands from making a move for the betterment of our future and our pick now drops out of the top ten, we may be stuck in the murky middle for years and years to come.

Yeah, but, this is good for Neighbors, Bolduc, Broberg and Holloways development. This team is much better that it’s record.

 

[Spektre]

Yeah, but, this is good for Neighbors, Bolduc, Broberg and Holloways development. This team is much better that it’s record.

No, the team is exactly as good as their record.

I hate this. If this winning streak ties DA's hands from making a move for the betterment of our future and our pick now drops out of the top ten, we may be stuck in the murky middle for years and years to come.

Exactly this. Don’t buy into the fool’s gold. Get a first round pick plus a good prospect for Schenn. Take emotions out of it. Do what is best for the franchise.

 

[Mike Liut]

I get it RobbK. Guess it would depend on the price. A lot of talk in the Trade Proposal thread about Dylan Cozens. Young and signed (albeit high) for 5 more years. He’d be a guy that interests me if the price wasn’t too high as you mention.

I’ve always been a Cozens fan. Thomas - Dvo - Cozens down middle excites me

 

[LGB]

Exactly this. Don’t buy into the fool’s gold. Get a first round pick plus a good prospect for Schenn. Take emotions out of it. Do what is best for the franchise.

We’ll have to acquire another 2C anyway. Dvorsky is 19, could be a while before he’s ready for that role.

 

[Mike Liut]

We’ll have to acquire another 2C anyway. Dvorsky is 19, could be a while before he’s ready for that role.

Exactly my point

 

[BlueDream]

Exactly this. Don’t buy into the fool’s gold. Get a first round pick plus a good prospect for Schenn. Take emotions out of it. Do what is best for the franchise.

I hate this. If this winning streak ties DA's hands from making a move for the betterment of our future and our pick now drops out of the top ten, we may be stuck in the murky middle for years and years to come.

I don’t really get these posts. You realize Schenn isn’t an upcoming UFA, right? We don’t have to trade him right now. With the rising cap, I don’t see his value changing much at all over the next calendar year. We would have plenty of time to move him if we really want to, which I’m not convinced we should even do because I’m not sure it would help us. It creates an even bigger hole at center than we already have, and we lose leadership. I frankly think the talk of getting any top tier prospect for him is delusional. I don’t think the return in reality would be what people are hoping for, but who knows.

And we don’t have a single UFA that has any real value. So not selling at the deadline is basically irrelevant, it makes almost no difference. A shake up to the core with a player with term can be made in the offseason, when those trades are more common anyways.

 

[TheOrganist]

Exactly. Reading through our trade thread right now is a good laugh. It’s silly season pre-deadline and fans are just desperate for moves for the sake of moves when the most sensible path is to do nothing.

 

[Mike Liut]

Exactly. Reading through our trade thread right now is a good laugh. It’s silly season pre-deadline and fans are just desperate for moves for the sake of moves when the most sensible path is to do nothing.

I’d add if it helps long term. No rentals

 

[JR1]

Now we need to trade Kyrou and we will be a cup contender within a year

I would mis s his offense but his lack of forecheck effort costs this team 20 goals per year. He will NOT battle for the puck. I watched him back off several times tonight. It has to drive his line mates crazy.

 

[Spektre]

I don’t really get these posts. You realize Schenn isn’t an upcoming UFA, right? We don’t have to trade him right now. With the rising cap, I don’t see his value changing much at all over the next calendar year. We would have plenty of time to move him if we really want to, which I’m not convinced we should even do because I’m not sure it would help us. It creates an even bigger hole at center than we already have, and we lose leadership. I frankly think the talk of getting any top tier prospect for him is delusional. I don’t think the return in reality would be what people are hoping for, but who knows.

And we don’t have a single UFA that has any real value. So not selling at the deadline is basically irrelevant, it makes almost no difference. A shake up to the core with a player with term can be made in the offseason, when those trades are more common anyways.

The roller coaster emotions of fans here are the same as everywhere else.

You trade Schenn now because of what the return is vs what Schenn provides for the franchise over the next 3 seasons and beyond.

Schenn is the direct beneficiary of Kyrou and Holloway. Schenn isn’t elevating anyone’s game. He’s been on the down swing of his career. You think it’s a given the Blues can get a first round pick plus a good prospect next year, and then the year after that?

The Blues need a legitimate 2C and 3C even with Schenn on the roster. Ideally Schenn should be playing wing. He’s never had the vision or passing ability a true center should have. He’s a placeholder, that’s it.

I don’t care if the Blues win every remaining game and make the playoffs. Schenn absolutely should be traded if the return is a first + B or better prospect. It’s a no brainer. It’s like the winning lottery ticket has fallen into your lap and you trade it in for door #3 (Schenn’s remaining contract)

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

I would mis s his offense but his lack of forecheck effort costs this team 20 goals per year. He will NOT battle for the puck. I watched him back off several times tonight. It has to drive his line mates crazy.

It isn't 2022 anymore.

 

[BlueMed]

I wish we'd have traded for Fowler 2-3 years before. He's really helped both our defence, AND our offence. Yet lots of fans hope we trade him off at The Deadline. He and Parayko make a decent 1st pairing. I'd keep him for 2-3 more seasons, until The Blues can replace Suter, and Leddy, and Krug's bad contract is over, and their current prospect D-men can play on a decent level in The NHL.

1. Then we likely dont get Dvorsky, Stenberg or Lindstein...
2. He's not part of our new core and there is no guarantee he is going to be this effective for 2-3 more seasons. We have Broberg and Lindstein who will take over the left side of our top 4 in the next 2 years. Suter's contract is going to expire this year and Leddy's next year.

 

[BlueDream]

The roller coaster emotions of fans here are the same as everywhere else.

You trade Schenn now because of what the return is vs what Schenn provides for the franchise over the next 3 seasons and beyond.

Schenn is the direct beneficiary of Kyrou and Holloway. Schenn isn’t elevating anyone’s game. He’s been on the down swing of his career. You think it’s a given the Blues can get a first round pick plus a good prospect next year, and then the year after that?

The Blues need a legitimate 2C and 3C even with Schenn on the roster. Ideally Schenn should be playing wing. He’s never had the vision or passing ability a true center should have. He’s a placeholder, that’s it.

I don’t care if the Blues win every remaining game and make the playoffs. Schenn absolutely should be traded if the return is a first + B or better prospect. It’s a no brainer. It’s like the winning lottery ticket has fallen into your lap and you trade it in for door #3 (Schenn’s remaining contract)

I bolded those two lines because you don’t even know what the return would be. You’re just assuming it’s a 1st and good prospect. It’s highly unknown if any team would pay that right now.

And if they would do it now, why wouldn’t they do it at next year’s trade deadline? Or in June for that matter? Schenn’s contract would then have one less year on it which could be MORE appealing to some teams, and if it’s in the offseason then it makes it easier for teams up against the cap. He’s on pace for 50 points right now. I don’t see his game just dropping off a cliff within the next 12 months, he will still be an adequate middle 6 player so yes, I’ll see it again: his value won’t change much.

Regarding your last paragraph, that’s still highly debatable. Let’s say we get a 1st and a prospect. Let’s say that is a late 1st and Fraser Minten from Toronto, as has been discussed on the trade board. We don’t know if Minten will be a good NHL player, and I’ll bet that he probably never becomes better than what Schenn is right now as a 33 year old. And we certainly don’t know if a late 1st in a weak draft will ever be an NHL player either. If the Blues make a trade like that, I’ll be fine with it, but to me that’s not a “can’t miss” package that we wouldn’t be able to get in the offseason, or at next year’s trade deadline. We would be fine without those pieces, they aren’t really moving the needle right now. That’s why I don’t understand the rush. If Armstrong gets a can’t miss offer then I’m sure he’ll pull the trigger. But I kinda don’t think it’s going to happen.

And lastly I think you’re just underrating what Schenn brings in general. He’s absolutely still a good 3C so we would need two middle 6 centers this offseason if we moved him, and we’d also need a new captain. Many players have raved about his leadership and what he brings to the team, he can play up and down the lineup, is one of our most physical guys, etc. But hey, who cares about all that when we might be able to acquire a draft pick and middling prospect. Yippee.

 

[TheOrganist]

The roller coaster emotions of fans here are the same as everywhere else.

You trade Schenn now because of what the return is vs what Schenn provides for the franchise over the next 3 seasons and beyond.

Schenn is the direct beneficiary of Kyrou and Holloway. Schenn isn’t elevating anyone’s game. He’s been on the down swing of his career. You think it’s a given the Blues can get a first round pick plus a good prospect next year, and then the year after that?

The Blues need a legitimate 2C and 3C even with Schenn on the roster. Ideally Schenn should be playing wing. He’s never had the vision or passing ability a true center should have. He’s a placeholder, that’s it.

I don’t care if the Blues win every remaining game and make the playoffs. Schenn absolutely should be traded if the return is a first + B or better prospect. It’s a no brainer. It’s like the winning lottery ticket has fallen into your lap and you trade it in for door #3 (Schenn’s remaining contract)

It’s really not a no-brainer, sorry. The 28th pick in the first round in a meh draft in exchange for removing one of your legit centers which forces you to thrust Dvorsky into a more prominent role off the hop OR forces you to spend the summer finding a stopgap bc you traded Schenn and very likely won’t be more impactful than Schenn (have you seen the pitiful group of pending FA centers)

Unless we’re talking Schenn and no retention for a Scott Morrow type prospect who can contribute immediately there’s no point in trading him (and as BlueDream pointed out this is all fanciful speculation bc I think Schenn’s non-media driven trade value is not remotely as high as has been reported)…and on TOP of that there is no way Armstrong is making moves to take a step back in the short term so to me it’s all moot anyway.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

Count me in the 'Schenn's value is probably at the highest it's going to be for the rest of his career' group.

If the right deal is there, you have to take it. But will the right deal be there? His value goes well beyond the stat sheet and I'm not trading him for an underwhelming return. I'd rather eat the contract and let him lead the team for a couple more seasons.

 

[TheDizee]

I would mis s his offense but his lack of forecheck effort costs this team 20 goals per year. He will NOT battle for the puck. I watched him back off several times tonight. It has to drive his line mates crazy.

You will never win with him as a key cog. Year 4 of this nonsense now. He was the worst player on the ice tonight. It just shows how the Blues can win and actually carry the play WITHOUT him. They have to move him this offseason. For someone having as much speed as he does, he hardly ever uses it to drive plays and defenders away. And he always takes lazy penalties like every other game.

It isn't 2022 anymore.

He does not have people like Perron, ROR, 91, or Schwartz eating teams top lines and D-men for him anymore. His stats in 22 were a sole product of being put up against teams 2nd/3rd lines and their 2nd PK units. He is a complimentary player, not a driving force. And that is why he must go. Too much money for a floating sidepiece player.

Count me in the 'Schenn's value is probably at the highest it's going to be for the rest of his career' group.

If the right deal is there, you have to take it. But will the right deal be there? His value goes well beyond the stat sheet and I'm not trading him for an underwhelming return. I'd rather eat the contract and let him lead the team for a couple more seasons.

His NTC kicks in this summer I believe, 15 team NTC. He must go if we get a great offer.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

Count me in the 'Schenn's value is probably at the highest it's going to be for the rest of his career' group.

If the right deal is there, you have to take it. But will the right deal be there? His value goes well beyond the stat sheet and I'm not trading him for an underwhelming return. I'd rather eat the contract and let him lead the team for a couple more seasons.

His modified NTC that kicks in next season is actually a benefit to the Blues because he has a full NTC right now.

That leverage could help him accept a trade this season though as he'll have less control once the 15-team clause kicks in.

 

[TheDizee]

Dizee is never wrong, if he says its tonight, its TONIGHT!

 

[BlueDream]

Schenner with 2 apples in game 1,000. Glad the team played well for him and we finally won 3 in a row. Regardless how the season ends, it was getting embarrassing that we hadn’t done that yet.

 

[Spektre]

I bolded those two lines because you don’t even know what the return would be. You’re just assuming it’s a 1st and good prospect. It’s highly unknown if any team would pay that right now.

And if they would do it now, why wouldn’t they do it at next year’s trade deadline? Or in June for that matter? Schenn’s contract would then have one less year on it which could be MORE appealing to some teams, and if it’s in the offseason then it makes it easier for teams up against the cap. He’s on pace for 50 points right now. I don’t see his game just dropping off a cliff within the next 12 months, he will still be an adequate middle 6 player so yes, I’ll see it again: his value won’t change much.

Regarding your last paragraph, that’s still highly debatable. Let’s say we get a 1st and a prospect. Let’s say that is a late 1st and Fraser Minten from Toronto, as has been discussed on the trade board. We don’t know if Minten will be a good NHL player, and I’ll bet that he probably never becomes better than what Schenn is right now as a 33 year old. And we certainly don’t know if a late 1st in a weak draft will ever be an NHL player either. If the Blues make a trade like that, I’ll be fine with it, but to me that’s not a “can’t miss” package that we wouldn’t be able to get in the offseason, or at next year’s trade deadline. We would be fine without those pieces, they aren’t really moving the needle right now. That’s why I don’t understand the rush. If Armstrong gets a can’t miss offer then I’m sure he’ll pull the trigger. But I kinda don’t think it’s going to happen.

And lastly I think you’re just underrating what Schenn brings in general. He’s absolutely still a good 3C so we would need two middle 6 centers this offseason if we moved him, and we’d also need a new captain. Many players have raved about his leadership and what he brings to the team, he can play up and down the lineup, is one of our most physical guys, etc. But hey, who cares about all that when we might be able to acquire a draft pick and middling prospect. Yippee.

I bolded those two lines because you don’t even know what the return would be. You’re just assuming it’s a 1st and good prospect. It’s highly unknown if any team would pay that right now.

And if they would do it now, why wouldn’t they do it at next year’s trade deadline? Or in June for that matter? Schenn’s contract would then have one less year on it which could be MORE appealing to some teams, and if it’s in the offseason then it makes it easier for teams up against the cap. He’s on pace for 50 points right now. I don’t see his game just dropping off a cliff within the next 12 months, he will still be an adequate middle 6 player so yes, I’ll see it again: his value won’t change much.

Regarding your last paragraph, that’s still highly debatable. Let’s say we get a 1st and a prospect. Let’s say that is a late 1st and Fraser Minten from Toronto, as has been discussed on the trade board. We don’t know if Minten will be a good NHL player, and I’ll bet that he probably never becomes better than what Schenn is right now as a 33 year old. And we certainly don’t know if a late 1st in a weak draft will ever be an NHL player either. If the Blues make a trade like that, I’ll be fine with it, but to me that’s not a “can’t miss” package that we wouldn’t be able to get in the offseason, or at next year’s trade deadline. We would be fine without those pieces, they aren’t really moving the needle right now. That’s why I don’t understand the rush. If Armstrong gets a can’t miss offer then I’m sure he’ll pull the trigger. But I kinda don’t think it’s going to happen.

And lastly I think you’re just underrating what Schenn brings in general. He’s absolutely still a good 3C so we would need two middle 6 centers this offseason if we moved him, and we’d also need a new captain. Many players have raved about his leadership and what he brings to the team, he can play up and down the lineup, is one of our most physical guys, etc. But hey, who cares about all that when we might be able to acquire a draft pick and middling prospect. Yippee.

There’s a few points to make.

Hockey teammates talking up another teammate means nothing to me. What do you expect them to say. I’m not saying Schenn doesn’t have some intangibles, but teammates pumping his tires is expected regardless if it’s true or not.

I have relegated my comments on “if” the return is a 1st and a good prospect. I’m not expecting the return of a Schenn trade is going to suddenly catapult the Blues into a Cup contender.

Schenn’s play next year could absolutely fall off drastically. I don’t honestly expect it to, but I 100% don’t expect it to be any better. His NTC going to 15 teams means extremely little to me. It doesn’t help if his play drops more, there’s many more desirable options, or he sustains a major injury.

It’s somewhat gambling either way. The view should be, what is the best for the franchise both short and long term? It’s okay for us to have different opinions. I will bang the trade drum all day as long as the return is what has mostly been speculated.

 

[Spektre]

Adding that if the Blues picked up another 1st round pick + B prospect, they don’t have to keep the assets. It could be used to bolster the team with younger NHL talent. It’s just another option.

 

[Robb_K]

The roller coaster emotions of fans here are the same as everywhere else.

You trade Schenn now because of what the return is vs what Schenn provides for the franchise over the next 3 seasons and beyond.

Schenn is the direct beneficiary of Kyrou and Holloway. Schenn isn’t elevating anyone’s game. He’s been on the down swing of his career. You think it’s a given the Blues can get a first round pick plus a good prospect next year, and then the year after that?

The Blues need a legitimate 2C and 3C even with Schenn on the roster. Ideally Schenn should be playing wing. He’s never had the vision or passing ability a true center should have. He’s a placeholder, that’s it.

I don’t care if the Blues win every remaining game and make the playoffs. Schenn absolutely should be traded if the return is a first + B or better prospect. It’s a no brainer. It’s like the winning lottery ticket has fallen into your lap and you trade it in for door #3 (Schenn’s remaining contract)

The other GMs watch games too. There's no way Schenn will bring even a LOW 1st Round choice. Maybe a 2nd Rounder and a "C" prospect? I don't think The Blues will make any trade at The Deadline.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

The other GMs watch games too. There's no way Schenn will bring even a LOW 1st Round choice. Maybe a 2nd Rounder and a "C" prospect? I don't think The Blues will make any trade at The Deadline.

It's been pretty widely speculated by the NHL media over the last few weeks that he'd fetch a 1st rounder plus.

If a team wasn't offering a 1st+ I doubt the Blues would even be having conversations right now.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

I don’t really get these posts. You realize Schenn isn’t an upcoming UFA, right? We don’t have to trade him right now. With the rising cap, I don’t see his value changing much at all over the next calendar year. We would have plenty of time to move him if we really want to, which I’m not convinced we should even do because I’m not sure it would help us. It creates an even bigger hole at center than we already have, and we lose leadership. I frankly think the talk of getting any top tier prospect for him is delusional. I don’t think the return in reality would be what people are hoping for, but who knows.

And we don’t have a single UFA that has any real value. So not selling at the deadline is basically irrelevant, it makes almost no difference. A shake up to the core with a player with term can be made in the offseason, when those trades are more common anyways.

Selling does make a difference for three reasons:
1. Cash in on Schenn while his value has peaked, sure there's a chance his value remains the same in the offseason, but no chance his value goes higher, and a decent chance his value falls.
2. Moving a veteran like Schenn would temporarily weaken our roster, allowing us to capture a higher pick down the stretch.
3. Gives us massive cap flexibility to start the offseason. Could give us the chance to bring in a real difference maker via FAgency or hockey trade. No if-this-then-that scenarios, we would already have the cap room to bid from the start.

This roster isnt close to the 2019 roster, we have no where near the talent or depth. This isnt a repeat of that season, no chance. Its wild that a 3 game, yes only one 3 game win streak has blinded some, when in reality we still should be in asset accumulation mode.

Continue to accumulate assets and keep playing for 2027 and beyond, we can build a decade-long playoff team if done right. No short cuts, no moral victories. Do the right thing and continue building. A top 10 pick and additional solid prospect or 1st round pick should be the path forward.