GDT: Blues @ Avalanche|Round 1, Game 2| Blues down 1-0|

[Brian39]

Injuries to bottom 6 players don't make a contending team post bottom 10 possession and xG metrics. Schwartz and Parayko are the only top 6/top4 players going into the season that missed significant time. There's no guarantee that Tarasenko becomes the same player he used to be, and the collection of Sundqvist, Bozak, Thomas, Gunnarsson, and Barbashev don't have the NHL impact that you can say really derailed the season. The guys who should be driving the play were healthy the whole year. This is the result.

The bolded is pretty disingenuous. If Tarasenko's injury doesn't count as a top 6 injury because you are using the projected forward group without him, then you have to actually look at the projected forward group without him and treat the guys who were in the top 6 as our top 6 players. You don't get to ignore Tarasenko's injury AND claim that guys playing in the top 6 as a result are actually bottom 6 guys.

Our 2nd line on opening night was Schwartz-Thomas-Sunny. They missed 16, 28, and 23 games respectively. Our top 6 forwards by average TOI this year has been ROR, Perron, Schwartz, Schenn, Tarasenko and Sunny. When you look at the guys Berube most leans on when they are in the lineup up, 3 of the 6 missed significant time throughout the year and two of them are currently out (including the team's leading scorer).

In addition, our injuries were pretty damn center-heavy. We missed significant time from Bozak, Thomas, Sunny and Barby with a good chunk of overlap between injuries. Those were the guys penciled in to be our 2nd, 3rd and 4th line centers going in to the season (plus a winger who routinely slots in at center when injuries hit). Again, if we're judging the quality of injuries using the standard of the roster construction going into the year, that is a colossal combination of losses. Bozak gets hurt in game 7 and Thomas in game 12. Barbie gets hurt in game 17 and suddenly you've lost 75% of your opening night centers in a 10 game stretch. We have pretty great center depth, but that is undeniably a significant blow to any team.

I agree with your overall opinion that injuries alone didn't take us from contender-to-bottom-10. But it is silly to act like we just suffered injuries to unimportant players and that the important parts remained healthy. We missed the 2nd most man-games to injury this year and that included long-term absences from 3 forwards that the coach uses as top 6 quality forwards. Every middle 6 and bottom 6 center missed substantial time and 2 guys who have been undisputed top 6 wingers for years missed substantial time.

 

[Reality Czech]

i agree, no reason to sit Kostin over people like Clifford right now.

besides health, we also need our top players to play like it consistently. 91 is always hurt, 17 is IMO not a good player anymore or reliable at all. 10 has had a really subpar year. when you count on those 3 guys to produce and they dont, it puts alot more pressure on 90/57 to score. They did a great job but when you lose them like we have with 57 now and the others still are not pulling their weight, makes it even tougher to compete.

I wont even go into the D issues right now. Faulk being done for likely a while is a bigger blow than losing 27 would be to prior year teams because atleast then you had people like Jbo who could eat those minutes up. Parayko cannot do that this year, hes too banged up.

Play the young kids and lets see what they got.

This is true, there may have to be a shuffling of the deck. We can hope and pray that 91 looks better after a full offseason to recover, but if not he only has 2 years left after this one. Keeping Schwartz won't be an easy call, as he hasn't been his usual reliable self this year. Schenn also disappeared for most of the season after a hot start, so I'm not sure the team needs to be saddled with a long Schwartz contract to go along with that one. We hoped Thomas would step up and become a top 6 guy, and clearly that hasn't happened. We will need secondary scoring from somewhere, that's for sure.

As for the defense, we probably won't get another Bouwmeester but we at least need a trustworthy guy who can block shots, hold his own in front of the net and preferably never get injured. Even having Gunnar around would have helped a bit. I see a few interesting names on the FA market but will hold off on that speculation til the offseason and what happens with the expansion draft. Also, Parayko's contract situation will be very interesting to watch though it might give Blues fans just as much acid reflux as the Petro situation did.

 

[Louie the Blue]

The one positive of the first two games is I think we can count Binnington as a long term solution at goalie and not have to worry about him being Allen 2.0.

 

[mike1320]

The one positive of the first two games is I think we can count Binnington as a long term solution at goalie and not have to worry about him being Allen 2.0.

Was funny how many people immediately wrote him off after his contract was finalized.

 

[Stealth JD]

I don't think a tear-down is in order, but man...the team defense is BAD. The Blues shouldn't be giving up 5 or 6 goals regardless of who the opponent is. If it happens once or twice in a season, meh, throw away games happen. But in 58 games this year the Blues have given up 5 or more goals way too many times.

Spoiler

They need to make some changes on the back-end because the Blues have gotten caved-in, shot-wise & possession-wise for most of the season.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I really want Army to target Savard for a bottom pairing RHD over the offseason.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Just a FYI, but the official HFBoards policy is that any poster is welcome to post anywhere as long as they obey the site rules. What is considered "Trolling" depends on context. What is OK in a home thread GDT, or even on a neutral board, is not the same as what's OK in the GDT on the opposing team's board. An Avalanche fan saying "The Blues suck," for example, is ok on the Avalanche board or on a neutral board, but would be considered trolling on the Blues board...even if the Blues do, objectively, suck.

That said, quality posts that contribute productively to an ongoing conversation are not automatically over the line simply because they come from an opposing fan, even if they are disagreeing with an opinion expressed by a Blues fan. Content, tone, presentation, timing, and perceived intent will be taken into account when deciding when such a post is being made in good faith.

 

[Fan from AK]

Without looking through all of the pages, how is Faulk doing? I saw the hit and was disgusted with that POS Kadri. I am a Lightning fan worried about another hockey player. Thanks in advance.

 

[execwrite1]

Sorry if I'm late to the discussion

Kadri needs a one-year ban and reinstatement with the contingency that another major penalty to the head is an automatic lifetime ban.

The Players Union should speak up in his case and support a severe penalty.

Hope Faulk is okay. That hit was unacceptable and I hope Clifford or someone else brings some justice on the ice.

 

[mk80]

I don't think a tear-down is in order, but man...the team defense is BAD. The Blues shouldn't be giving up 5 or 6 goals regardless of who the opponent is. If it happens once or twice in a season, meh, throw away games happen. But in 58 games this year the Blues have given up 5 or more goals way too many times.

They need to make some changes on the back-end because the Blues have gotten caved-in, shot-wise & possession-wise for most of the season.

I fully agree. Even our 2019 defense, gave up the occasional lopsided score now and then. But yes this defense definitely needs some improvement. It was one reason I hoped we'd bring in someone to help at trade deadline.

 

[oPlaiD]

Normally I hate when people argue that a team with a zillion shots wasn't actually doing a lot since they're usually wrong, but last night was an exception. The Avs did not have great shot quality, they just happened to get a ton of goals on low probability chances because of luck and/or MacKinnon being a ridiculous player.

Moneypuck's model may have issues and it certainly has hated the Blues this season, but last night we were at 63% on the "deserve to win o'meter" and had more expected goals than the Avs over the course of the game excluding the empty netter. Some of that is surely the Avs taking their foot off the pedal after they grabbed a 3 goal lead, but that's taken into account in the sims.

I'm not sure that really gives us much hope for the rest of the series, especially if all the players we have out stay out, but there are... some positives... from last night.

 

[mk80]

Without looking through all of the pages, how is Faulk doing? I saw the hit and was disgusted with that POS Kadri. I am a Lightning fan worried about another hockey player. Thanks in advance.

Sorry if I'm late to the discussion

Kadri needs a one-year ban and reinstatement with the contingency that another major penalty to the head is an automatic lifetime ban.

The Players Union should speak up in his case and support a severe penalty.

Hope Faulk is okay. That hit was unacceptable and I hope Clifford or someone else brings some justice on the ice.

I haven't seen anything specifically on Faulk, but I'd be surprised if he returned in either of the next two games, or perhaps even a full 7 game series. We did just call up one of prospects from Utica so it likely provides some clarity. No word on Bortuzzo yet either.

 

[Fan from AK]

I haven't seen anything specifically on Faulk, but I'd be surprised if he returned in either of the next two games, or perhaps even a full 7 game series. We did just call up one of prospects from Utica so it likely provides some clarity. No word on Bortuzzo yet either.

Thank you for the update. I am a hockey fan first and that hit was over the top by a well-known POS. I am hoping for a speedy recovery and hope this isn't career-threatening.

 

[Ranksu]

God these takes just make me go into durrr mod. Geez some of you take being a Blues fan to a new level

What to do you mean?

 

[Eldon Reid]

Sorry if I'm late to the discussion

Kadri needs a one-year ban and reinstatement with the contingency that another major penalty to the head is an automatic lifetime ban.

The Players Union should speak up in his case and support a severe penalty.

Hope Faulk is okay. That hit was unacceptable and I hope Clifford or someone else brings some justice on the ice.

Kadri needs to get the Wilson treatment. He hasn't learned from previous mistakes.

 

[Eldon Reid]

Just a FYI, but the official HFBoards policy is that any poster is welcome to post anywhere as long as they obey the site rules. What is considered "Trolling" depends on context. What is OK in a home thread GDT, or even on a neutral board, is not the same as what's OK in the GDT on the opposing team's board. An Avalanche fan saying "The Blues suck," for example, is ok on the Avalanche board or on a neutral board, but would be considered trolling on the Blues board...even if the Blues do, objectively, suck.

That said, quality posts that contribute productively to an ongoing conversation are not automatically over the line simply because they come from an opposing fan, even if they are disagreeing with an opinion expressed by a Blues fan. Content, tone, presentation, timing, and perceived intent will be taken into account when deciding when such a post is being made in good faith.

What about Avs fan quoting me from my Blues board on their board? Is that classified as trolling? I have had one taking my quotes and others and posting them on their board calling us salty fans.

I comment on their board telling to stick to his board and stop taking what I am saying from our board to their board.

 

[TheDizee]

Just a FYI, but the official HFBoards policy is that any poster is welcome to post anywhere as long as they obey the site rules. What is considered "Trolling" depends on context. What is OK in a home thread GDT, or even on a neutral board, is not the same as what's OK in the GDT on the opposing team's board. An Avalanche fan saying "The Blues suck," for example, is ok on the Avalanche board or on a neutral board, but would be considered trolling on the Blues board...even if the Blues do, objectively, suck.

That said, quality posts that contribute productively to an ongoing conversation are not automatically over the line simply because they come from an opposing fan, even if they are disagreeing with an opinion expressed by a Blues fan. Content, tone, presentation, timing, and perceived intent will be taken into account when deciding when such a post is being made in good faith.

what is policy for opposing teams fans tagging you in their post all the time? because to me if they tag you in a post you have the right to reply to it.

nobody on this board has done it at all but in my experience av fans seem to want to tag people here on every post. i never understood why opposing teams care what is said on another teams board and until now it has never even been a issue and thats with the canuckleheads popping up last year after their 1 round fluke.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I haven't seen anything specifically on Faulk, but I'd be surprised if he returned in either of the next two games, or perhaps even a full 7 game series. We did just call up one of prospects from Utica so it likely provides some clarity. No word on Bortuzzo yet either.

I would be shocked if Faulk returns this season, no matter how far we go. And we aren’t likely to go far without him. Or even with him.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

Sorry if I'm late to the discussion

Kadri needs a one-year ban and reinstatement with the contingency that another major penalty to the head is an automatic lifetime ban.

The Players Union should speak up in his case and support a severe penalty.

Hope Faulk is okay. That hit was unacceptable and I hope Clifford or someone else brings some justice on the ice.

Sadly, the NHLPA will likely appeal any suspension he is issued because avoiding punishment is more important to the PA than protecting the members that get hurt by these guys

 

[EastonBlues22]

What about Avs fan quoting me from my Blues board on their board? Is that classified as trolling? I have had one taking my quotes and others and posting them on their board calling us salty fans.

I comment on their board telling to stick to his board and stop taking what I am saying from our board to their board.

what is policy for opposing teams fans tagging you in their post all the time? because to me if they tag you in a post you have the right to reply to it.

nobody on this board has done it at all but in my experience av fans seem to want to tag people here on every post. i never understood why opposing teams care what is said on another teams board and until now it has never even been a issue and thats with the canuckleheads popping up last year after their 1 round fluke.

Typically cross-posting or tagging with the intention of drawing attention to a poster (or group of posters) for the purpose of making fun of them or insulting them falls under flaming or trolling.

There is potentially some gray area here. For example, if one is outspoken about an opinion, it is not necessarily trolling to get tagged or quoted if something comes up that contradicts said opinion. Typically, one would expect that to happen in the same thread as the original discussion took place, or perhaps the same forum if there's a new thread. Dragging it to a different forum might not be explicitly against the rules, but it's generally a indication that there might be some ill-intent.

Bottom line: Report offending posts for review.

 

[TheDizee]

Typically cross-posting or tagging with the intention of drawing attention to a poster (or group of posters) for the purpose of making fun of them or insulting them falls under flaming or trolling.

There is potentially some gray area here. For example, if one is outspoken about an opinion, it is not necessarily trolling to get tagged or quoted if something comes up that contradicts said opinion. Typically, one would expect that to happen in the same thread as the original discussion took place, or perhaps the same forum if there's a new thread. Dragging it to a different forum might not be explicitly against the rules, but it's generally a indication that there might be some ill-intent.

Bottom line: Report offending posts for review.

ya i report em and from what ive seen the mods have been taking care of them. thanks for the clarification though. i imagine things will only get worse as the series progresses so you guys will be busy.

 

[mk80]

I would be shocked if Faulk returns this season, no matter how far we go. And we aren’t likely to go far without him. Or even with him.

I agree. I'd place my money on us seeing him next in training camp, whether that's due to injury/concussion itself, or just the fact the Blues probably aren't getting out of this series.

 

[Thallis]

The bolded is pretty disingenuous. If Tarasenko's injury doesn't count as a top 6 injury because you are using the projected forward group without him, then you have to actually look at the projected forward group without him and treat the guys who were in the top 6 as our top 6 players. You don't get to ignore Tarasenko's injury AND claim that guys playing in the top 6 as a result are actually bottom 6 guys.

Our 2nd line on opening night was Schwartz-Thomas-Sunny. They missed 16, 28, and 23 games respectively. Our top 6 forwards by average TOI this year has been ROR, Perron, Schwartz, Schenn, Tarasenko and Sunny. When you look at the guys Berube most leans on when they are in the lineup up, 3 of the 6 missed significant time throughout the year and two of them are currently out (including the team's leading scorer).

Sundqvist averaged 11:42 of 5v5 time per game, which matches with the majority of 3rd lines around the league. Of the regulars, the top 6 based on 5v5 TOI is O'Rielly, Schenn, Perron, Schwartz, Tarasenko, Kyrou, and the 7th is Hoffman. So again, Schwartz is the only one of these players besides Tarasenko, who we weren't sure would play at all, to miss significant time this season. Sunqvist got a lot of time on the PK, but that's not uncommon for bottom 6 players. He may have started the season on the second line, but he was replaced by Kyrou by game 3 and never made it back.

In addition, our injuries were pretty damn center-heavy. We missed significant time from Bozak, Thomas, Sunny and Barby with a good chunk of overlap between injuries. Those were the guys penciled in to be our 2nd, 3rd and 4th line centers going in to the season (plus a winger who routinely slots in at center when injuries hit). Again, if we're judging the quality of injuries using the standard of the roster construction going into the year, that is a colossal combination of losses. Bozak gets hurt in game 7 and Thomas in game 12. Barbie gets hurt in game 17 and suddenly you've lost 75% of your opening night centers in a 10 game stretch. We have pretty great center depth, but that is undeniably a significant blow to any team.

You're forgetting Schenn, who's been our 2nd center all year. It sucks that 3 all went down together, but there was never a point in the season that I can see or remember where we didn't have one of them centering the 3rd line. Obviously, we could have used those guys to slide up the lineup since that was when Schwartz was down as well, but it was also the soft part of the schedule where we were playing SJ and Anaheim 2/3 games.

I agree with your overall opinion that injuries alone didn't take us from contender-to-bottom-10. But it is silly to act like we just suffered injuries to unimportant players and that the important parts remained healthy. We missed the 2nd most man-games to injury this year and that included long-term absences from 3 forwards that the coach uses as top 6 quality forwards. Every middle 6 and bottom 6 center missed substantial time and 2 guys who have been undisputed top 6 wingers for years missed substantial time.

The main point is that these guys are role players. They're rarely the kind of guys who provide significant and consistent on ice impact. We're better with them, but I think that better only brings us to league average at best.

 

[Eldon Reid]

Typically cross-posting or tagging with the intention of drawing attention to a poster (or group of posters) for the purpose of making fun of them or insulting them falls under flaming or trolling.

There is potentially some gray area here. For example, if one is outspoken about an opinion, it is not necessarily trolling to get tagged or quoted if something comes up that contradicts said opinion. Typically, one would expect that to happen in the same thread as the original discussion took place, or perhaps the same forum if there's a new thread. Dragging it to a different forum might not be explicitly against the rules, but it's generally a indication that there might be some ill-intent.

Bottom line: Report offending posts for review.

Thank you for the clarity on this. I did report the poster.