Post-Game Talk: Blues 7 - Jets 2, Jets lead series 2-1

[bustamente]

Refs have injected themselves way to much in today’s game, last night Iafallo was just outside of the crease and you have the ref yelling at him stay out of the crease watch the line stay out of the crease to which Iafallo looks over and throws his hands in the air. Like stfu and let me play hockey

 

[ToastedRavioli]

Here is another picture that proves it was 100% a goal. The crossbar is the goal line unless of course the puck was a football then it is not a goal.
View attachment 1022491

The crossbar is not the goal-line in that picture lol. The overhead camera is offset a bit so you can see the goal line. In the very picture you linked you can clearly see the puck is not across the line. There might be other angles that are more favorable, but the one you linked is actually conclusively not in, and the Jets needed it to be conclusively in. Here is the goal-line outlined in the phone you linked.

 

[jungles]

Here is another picture that proves it was 100% a goal. The crossbar is the goal line unless of course the puck was a football then it is not a goal.
View attachment 1022491

It was a goal, but that view is no good because the crossbar and the goal line are not lined up.

 

[FlyerNutter]

were a 1 line team because we have 2 guys that were on pace for 30 goals our of the line up, also missing a top 4 defensemen right before the game messed up every d pairing and made us have a few guys playing well above where they should, we've managed their forecheck in the first 2 games of the series and when we get demelo and hopefully gabe we can handle their forecheck the next as well

I don’t understate the importance of losing a couple of skilled guys, even if relying on Ehlers for any consistent playing time at this point imo is very foolish.

I actually agree with you, which is why a tactical change needs to happen. To think St Louis is going to be less aggressive is a recipe for losing.

It’s why adjustments are made in a series. It’s Winnipeg’s turn to do so. Trotting out the same game plan I strongly disagree with.

 

[jungles]

The crossbar is not the goal-line in that picture lol. The overhead camera is offset a bit so you can see the goal line. In the very picture you linked you can clearly see the puck is not across the line. There might be other angles that are more favorable, but the one you linked is actually conclusively not in, and the Jets needed it to be conclusively in. Here is the goal-line outlined in the phone you linked.

View attachment 1022502

While I agree that view is no good, the lines you drew don't make sense either as "conclusively not in" since it is clearly being viewed from slight behind the cross bar.

 

[ToastedRavioli]

While I agree that view is no good, the lines you drew don't make sense either as "conclusively not in" since it is clearly being viewed from slight behind the cross bar.

With that amount of the puck that is on the line, and with that minor of an angle there is no shot there is white there between the puck and the goal-line. But that is logic, so I would agree that you are right that may not be conclusive enough to say conclusively not in. However, the puck there is clearly not in logically and since the call on the ice was no goal, that's all you need.

 

[jungles]

About half the puck is on the line.

In the image you posted? No. Its not. I know you drew it that way, but it isn't.

 

[ToastedRavioli]

In the image you posted? No. Its not. I know you drew it that way, but it isn't.

I reworded it but the point is it frankly does not matter. You can't use an angle where the puck is not across the goal line to say the puck is conclusively across it lol. There are no angles that show conclusive evidence.

 

[jungles]

I reworded it but the point is it frankly does not matter. You can't use an angle where the puck is not across the goal line to say the puck is conclusively across it lol. There are no angles that show conclusive evidence.

On that point we agree.

 

[khoss]

so the view where the puck goes in the glove and hits the back of the glove and rolls towards the front of the glove (the pic everyone stops on), why is it not enough to know the puck hit the back of the glove and the the back of the glove is well in the net?

 

[WolfHouse]

Helle was so bad last game that i actually blocked @White Out 902

Hopefully he uses it as inspiration...

 

[jungles]

Helle was so bad last game that i actually blocked @White Out 902

Hopefully he uses it as inspiration...

You missed it, then. He was extremely gracious and complimentary. It was actually inspiring!

 

[voyageur]

were a 1 line team because we have 2 guys that were on pace for 30 goals our of the line up, also missing a top 4 defensemen right before the game messed up every d pairing and made us have a few guys playing well above where they should, we've managed their forecheck in the first 2 games of the series and when we get demelo and hopefully gabe we can handle their forecheck the next as well

Yeah the Morrissey-Pionk pairing had such an abysmal start. I think 2 early goals came directly off Neal Pionk plays. A careless turnover on the 1st goal. And on the 3rd goal, Pionk tries to step up, but the puck goes right behind him, with Fowler attacking with speed.

If it were not for Hellebuyck's athletics, that could have been a 4-0 deficit in the 1st period.

Hopefully Melo stabilizes things again.

The PK is the part the Jets need to figure out quick. There's not much momentum coming out of them. Having the 2nd worst PK is what got the Jets eliminated last year.

The PP this year is worse than last year, without Vilardi or Ehlers.

5 on 5 I still think Scheif can handle Thomas. 2 of the 3 games this series he has.

I wouldn't mind seeing Adam Lowry up there with Perfetti for the next game, there's no home matchups, I think Brayden Schenn was matching up Namestnikov, And Sundqvist Adam Lowry's line, though I wasn't watching as closely as I should have.

And I maybe noticed the one Blues fan's boobies in the post goal celebrations more than I should have. And their ice crew.

 

[Buffdog]

The crossbar is not the goal-line in that picture lol. The overhead camera is offset a bit so you can see the goal line. In the very picture you linked you can clearly see the puck is not across the line. There might be other angles that are more favorable, but the one you linked is actually conclusively not in, and the Jets needed it to be conclusively in. Here is the goal-line outlined in the phone you linked.

View attachment 1022502

You're looking at a 3 dimensional situation in 2 dimensions

If you move the camera to the left so that it's directly over both the crossbar and and goal line, the angle at which you see the puck will change... it will actually move to the right relative to the pic you posted... which would likely show space between the puck and the goal line

It's called the parralax effect, in case you'd like to learn more about it

 

[Jet]

I'd like to see Barron move up the lineup and Appleton down. But maybe it is Tanev who moves down, he's taken a beating this playoff. Probably not 100% after that fall into the boards. Barron definitely deserves a promotion if anyone does.

Even though they didn't get scored on, I thought Perfetti's line looked slow, Broberg and Faulk skated right through them.

I'm not sure what the right moves are to counteract the momentum St. Louis built. Arniel seemed genuinely pissed in the post game at some of the questions. Knows he has to adjust to what Blues are doing. But you can't make the kind of mistakes that the players made in game 3 on the ice. Not in a playoff game. And it wasn't secondary players getting beat, it was the core players.

Now it's a series. Lose the next one and all the momentum is in the Blues favour going into a best of 3 finish.

Find a way to win and you go home needing one more.

Yeah I think it's a lot more complicated than just one or two things:

I think the team is sick
Missing players will take a toll
The officiating has been pretty brutal
The non goal and Helle gift I think really took the fight out of the team
Guys are just making too many mistakes (maybe back to illness)

Despite all this, we're up 2-1 and we know the formula for success.

I hate to keep coming back to this, but unless Helle can figure out to replicate his regular season performance in the playoffs we're not going very far. We might manage to beat the Blues (I don't think they can sustain the level of play from yesterday) but there are much more worrisome opponents to come and Hellebuyck will have to be his usual self if we are to go deep.

 

[gojetsgo]

I think I would move perfetti up to the 1st line and put nino lowry iaffalo as the 2nd line for next game 4th line stays intact

 

[ToastedRavioli]

You're looking at a 3 dimensional situation in 2 dimensions

If you move the camera to the left so that it's directly over both the crossbar and and goal line, the angle at which you see the pic will change... it will actually move to the right relative to the puck you posted... which would likely show space between the puck and the goal line

It's called the parralax effect, in case you'd like to learn more about it

That's just not how the NHL does reviews. I'm aware of how camera angles work, but thanks for the rundown. The NHL has to see conclusive evidence that the puck is across the line. You cannot logically infer or cite the parallax effect to overturn a call. It also is not a foregone conclusion that the puck is surely in from that angle because of parallax. That's just an assumption. The angle on the overhead view is marginally offset, it's not reasonable to just assume it would be enough of a difference for the puck to be completely across.

 

[voyageur]

Yeah I think it's a lot more complicated than just one or two things:

I think the team is sick
Missing players will take a toll
The officiating has been pretty brutal
The non goal and Helle gift I think really took the fight out of the team
Guys are just making too many mistakes (maybe back to illness)

Despite all this, we're up 2-1 and we know the formula for success.

I hate to keep coming back to this, but unless Helle can figure out to replicate his regular season performance in the playoffs we're not going very far. We might manage to beat the Blues (I don't think they can sustain the level of play from yesterday) but there are much more worrisome opponents to come and Hellebuyck will have to be his usual self if we are to go deep.

A friend and I were talking about Hellebuyck before game #3, and he was saying that Hellebuyck is playing too deep in his net. And you look at some of the goals in this series, and he's giving up a lot of net, in spite of his frame. What do you think?

 

[Gm0ney]

Hellebuyck's really developing an unfortunate reputation...

 

[Buffdog]

That's just not how the NHL does reviews. I'm aware of how camera angles work, but thanks for the rundown. The NHL has to see conclusive evidence that the puck is across the line. You cannot logically infer or cite the parallax effect to overturn a call. It also is not a foregone conclusion that the puck is surely in from that angle because of parallax. That's just an assumption. The angle on the overhead view is marginally offset, it's not reasonable to just assume it would be enough of a difference for the puck to be completely across.

The NHL won't use that angle. They use the crossbar camera

 

[voyageur]

Schenn was by far the worst of them. He is god awfully slow, possibly the worst skater on the roster. His indecision directly cost us a goal and the Stan-Schenn pairing is routinely getting hemmed in their own zone. If Schenn isn't playing physical he is pretty much useless but we need better puck movers back there. Blues forecheck is coming fast and heavy and that won't be changing in game 4.

I think you need Luke Schenn out there for the PK. He's not the guy regularly getting beat on the PK.

His gaffe yesterday was at 4-1 point in the game, where the air was let out after Helle's gift.

I'd be thinking about Fleury and Schenn as the 3rd pairing, and also PK2. Go back to Samberg and Melo, and try to have a 2nd pair who can shut it down on the PK. Not sure Pionk is going to be the answer there. Because there are going to be penalties in this series. At least with Fleury in the lineup, you get 3 pairs that can skate coming down the left side, and maybe some rush chances as a result. Blues have taken Suter out of the series to protect their lack of speed on defense, and now you would say that after game 3 the Blues defense outskated the Jets forwards.

Easy way to change that is harder forecheck. Quicker play.

 

[ToastedRavioli]

---

The NHL won't use that angle. They use the crossbar camera

Are we just moving the goal posts now (pun intended)? I was responding to a message of that specific photo that said

Here is another picture that proves it was 100% a goal. The crossbar is the goal line unless of course the puck was a football then it is not a goal.

This was a comment that you liked mind you lol. What does some other mysterious angle have to do with anything? The point is that the angle in question absolutely does not prove its a goal.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

We need to revisit just how bad Helle is when he leaves the crease to handle the puck. STAY IN YOUR NET PLEASE!!! We love you but, YOU SUCK HANDLING THE PUCK!!

Helle's goal for the Blues last night reminded me in a very bad way of the '18 Vegas series and the Helle folly trying to play the puck.

 

[Moloch]

JAD is good. Great passer and good speed, I was initially underwhelmed with this pickup but he clearly has an extra gear and can contribute. Props to him.

Holy moly though, everyone else played like ass.
The game definitely got to Helly's head and I hope he can bounce back. Lots of mistakes from D men ended up in the back of the net so he's not 100% to blame I guess.

Seems like a lot of goalies shitting the bed in the playoffs this year though.

Helly 6GA yesterday
Hill 5GA yesterday
Skinner 5GA Wednesday
Vasy 6GA/Hill 5GA Tuesday
Kuemper 5GA/Skinner 6GA Monday
Ullmark 6GA Sunday
Binner 5GA/Blackwood 5GA Saturday

 

[Huffer]

A friend and I were talking about Hellebuyck before game #3, and he was saying that Hellebuyck is playing too deep in his net. And you look at some of the goals in this series, and he's giving up a lot of net, in spite of his frame. What do you think?

I've been thinking that as well but just didn't want to start a Hellabucyk thing. I'm no goalie, but you watch Helle and he is a lot in the blue for a lot of the goals against. And you watch other goalies and they are out past the blue.
I can't say if Helle was this far back in the regular season, but I've noticed it a lot this playoffs.