Blues 2024 Off-Season Trade Proposals Thread

[PocketNines]

he is going to Chicago and we all know it

 

[Brian39]

Maybe I’m in the minority, but I’d rather have Kyrou @ 8mill than Marner @11 mill.

I'm a much bigger Kyrou fan than most around here, but I'd take Marner at $11M on an extension over Kyrou all day every day.

He had his worst playoffs since he broke out as a legit star this year, but he is above 50% in basically every metric in the playoffs in each of the last 5 seasons at 5 on 5 and was a plus player at 5 on 5 in each of the last 4 playoffs. In the two years prior to this one, he was above a point per game player in the playoffs each year.

I think that his game doesn't translate as well to playoffs as some star players, but it isn't like he can't produce in the playoffs. He can still be a ppg+ player in the playoffs and his defensive play doesn't just go away.

I'm happy with the way Kyrou's defensive game has improved, but he will never be close to as good defensively as Marner. I also doubt that he will ever be the consistent 95+ point player Marner is either.

I think that Marner is about $3M better than Kyrou and that is not at all a knock on Kyrou. I wouldn't go much (of any) higher on Marner than $11M AAV, but that's a number I'd absolutely go to with Thomas under contract long-term at $8.125M.

If we could sell Marner on the quiet/easy St. Louis media and get him extended pre-trade at $11M x 8 years, I'd absolutely trade Kyrou for him. But this is all irrelevant speculation. We're not going to offer him a full NMC, we're not going to offer enough of the contract as bonus money, he probably wants more than $11M AAV on a sight-unseen extension, and I doubt that he'd pick St. Louis even if we met all his contractual demands.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I'm a much bigger Kyrou fan than most around here, but I'd take Marner at $11M on an extension over Kyrou all day every day.

He had his worst playoffs since he broke out as a legit star this year, but he is above 50% in basically every metric in the playoffs in each of the last 5 seasons at 5 on 5 and was a plus player at 5 on 5 in each of the last 4 playoffs. In the two years prior to this one, he was above a point per game player in the playoffs each year.

I think that his game doesn't translate as well to playoffs as some star players, but it isn't like he can't produce in the playoffs. He can still be a ppg+ player in the playoffs and his defensive play doesn't just go away.

I'm happy with the way Kyrou's defensive game has improved, but he will never be close to as good defensively as Marner. I also doubt that he will ever be the consistent 95+ point player Marner is either.

I think that Marner is about $3M better than Kyrou and that is not at all a knock on Kyrou. I wouldn't go much (of any) higher on Marner than $11M AAV, but that's a number I'd absolutely go to with Thomas under contract long-term at $8.125M.

Yeah, Thomas and Marner signed long-term for under 20M would be a nice upgrade.

 

[bleedblue1223]

he is going to Chicago and we all know it

Marner for Jones makes sense for all the right and wrong reasons.

 

[Mike Liut]

I'm a much bigger Kyrou fan than most around here, but I'd take Marner at $11M on an extension over Kyrou all day every day.

He had his worst playoffs since he broke out as a legit star this year, but he is above 50% in basically every metric in the playoffs in each of the last 5 seasons at 5 on 5 and was a plus player at 5 on 5 in each of the last 4 playoffs. In the two years prior to this one, he was above a point per game player in the playoffs each year.

I think that his game doesn't translate as well to playoffs as some star players, but it isn't like he can't produce in the playoffs. He can still be a ppg+ player in the playoffs and his defensive play doesn't just go away.

I'm happy with the way Kyrou's defensive game has improved, but he will never be close to as good defensively as Marner. I also doubt that he will ever be the consistent 95+ point player Marner is either.

I think that Marner is about $3M better than Kyrou and that is not at all a knock on Kyrou. I wouldn't go much (of any) higher on Marner than $11M AAV, but that's a number I'd absolutely go to with Thomas under contract long-term at $8.125M.

If we could sell Marner on the quiet/easy St. Louis media and get him extended pre-trade at $11M x 8 years, I'd absolutely trade Kyrou for him. But this is all irrelevant speculation. We're not going to offer him a full NMC, we're not going to offer enough of the contract as bonus money, he probably wants more than $11M AAV on a sight-unseen extension, and I doubt that he'd pick St. Louis even if we met all his contractual demands.

I’m just not sure how far you’ll get in the playoffs with 11m non physical, non 2 way wingers. They just aren’t my type of players.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Just trade Kyrou and get it over with. I wonder who is the next whipping boy for the fanbase will be.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Just trade Kyrou and get it over with. I wonder who is the next whipping boy for the fanbase will be.

In this scenario, Marner.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

In this scenario, Marner.

Nah were not being Marner. Anyone who thinks he will waive his NMC for us is crazy. Absolutely no ties to STL and will be 28 when he needs his be contract. It's probably gonna be Snuggerud.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

They were discussing on 32 thoughts. EF doesn’t think this is trade leafs can focus on winning. They won’t. Need to make best move they can though and sounds like marner knows it’s time. I would guess he works with them to find place he will extend. Place like Utah or Anaheim or buffalo or other place tired of missing playoffs and ready to take next step but without Toronto spotlight.

If he went to Utah, it could be a win-win for everyone. Toronto will get some young assets that hold actual value, the Utah fanbase gets a start they can get excited about joining their rising young team, and Marner goes to a market that is going to support him. He can reinvent himself out of the spotlight.

 

[Majorityof1]

I’m just not sure how far you’ll get in the playoffs with 11m non physical, non 2 way wingers. They just aren’t my type of players.

How is a selke nominee not a 2-way player? I also think 11M is too much but let's list the right reasons. Marner is a 2-way player. He might not have looked it this playoffs, but he does the vast majority of his games.

 

[Mike Liut]

How is a selke nominee not a 2-way player? I also think 11M is too much but let's list the right reasons. Marner is a 2-way player. He might not have looked it this playoffs, but he does the vast majority of his games.

I guess I’m not watching close enough. It’s possible. I’ve just never been impressed with his physicality and 2 way play when I watch him. Imo, he’s just not the kind of player I want to be the main core piece that I’m taking into battle with in the playoffs.

 

[Reality Czech]

Just trade Kyrou and get it over with. I wonder who is the next whipping boy for the fanbase will be.

You really take this seriously huh. Sheesh.

 

[Blueston]

I guess I’m not watching close enough. It’s possible. I’ve just never been impressed with his physicality and 2 way play when I watch him. Imo, he’s just not the kind of player I want to be the main core piece that I’m taking into battle with in the playoffs.

not all guys can win physical battles. guys like marner (and kyrou, for that matter) win puck battles. quickness, leverage, stick skills, and whatnot they can be quite the little thief. marner's only problem is he is a toronto kid who wanted to be the homestown star who brought home Cup so he put too much pressure on himself in playoffs. when he gets traded he will flourish. someone is gonna get a foundational piece on the cheap from leafs bc everyone knows marner has to move on, but i'm not sure that we are far enough along that it makes sense for us.

 

[WeWentBlues]

Been fixating on this idea. Please tell me how stupid of an idea it is.

Krug has three years left on his deal and is owed 6.5M in real dollars, or 21M total. Buying out Krug this summer reduces the amount the Blues are on the hook for to 14M spread over 6 years (2.33M per).

Dubois has 47.5M left on his contract over 7 years. A buyout of his contract is 15.8M spread over 14 years, 1.13M per year so long as the buyout occurs before his 26th birthday on 6/24/24.

If I'm Armstrong, I would strongly consider trading Krug for Dubois and futures and would proceed to buyout Dubois. It reduces the salary burden that the Blues are committed to Krug by 5.2M if they were to do nothing at all and spreads a potential Krug buyout over 14 years at close to the same total buyout dollars if the Blues were to consider buying out Krug. The only downside is that the Blues would also carry dead cap for 14 seasons over the life of the buyout, ranging between 1.13M and 3.82M with the max occurring in 2029-2030. That is a small amount of dead cap compared to some teams around the league (see Minnesota with 15M in dead cap between Parise and Suter).

Krug would obviously have to agree to waive for LA and the futures from LA would need to be worthwhile. Is a 1st this year and a B tier prospect enough? Say 6'5 LD Jakub Dvorak? Feel like this is a trade that could benefit both teams. What am I missing?

 

[Blueston]

Been fixating on this idea. Please tell me how stupid of an idea it is.

Krug has three years left on his deal and is owed 6.5M in real dollars, or 21M total. Buying out Krug this summer reduces the amount the Blues are on the hook for to 14M spread over 6 years (2.33M per).

Dubois has 47.5M left on his contract over 7 years. A buyout of his contract is 15.8M spread over 14 years, 1.13M per year so long as the buyout occurs before his 26th birthday on 6/24/24.

If I'm Armstrong, I would strongly consider trading Krug for Dubois and futures and would proceed to buyout Dubois. It reduces the salary burden that the Blues are committed to Krug by 5.2M if they were to do nothing at all and spreads a potential Krug buyout over 14 years at close to the same total buyout dollars if the Blues were to consider buying out Krug. The only downside is that the Blues would also carry dead cap for 14 seasons over the life of the buyout, ranging between 1.13M and 3.82M with the max occurring in 2029-2030. That is a small amount of dead cap compared to some teams around the league (see Minnesota with 15M in dead cap between Parise and Suter).

Krug would obviously have to agree to waive for LA and the futures from LA would need to be worthwhile. Is a 1st this year and a B tier prospect enough? Say 6'5 LD Jakub Dvorak? Feel like this is a trade that could benefit both teams. What am I missing?

Why would we want to hinder our cap for 14 years? That makes no sense. We don't need the cap space the next 3 years bc we aren't any good anyway. cetainly this year. mucking up our cap for when we might be good to save money now is bad move and will make us further from contention.

 

[Xerloris]

I'm a much bigger Kyrou fan than most around here, but I'd take Marner at $11M on an extension over Kyrou all day every day.

He had his worst playoffs since he broke out as a legit star this year, but he is above 50% in basically every metric in the playoffs in each of the last 5 seasons at 5 on 5 and was a plus player at 5 on 5 in each of the last 4 playoffs. In the two years prior to this one, he was above a point per game player in the playoffs each year.

I think that his game doesn't translate as well to playoffs as some star players, but it isn't like he can't produce in the playoffs. He can still be a ppg+ player in the playoffs and his defensive play doesn't just go away.

I'm happy with the way Kyrou's defensive game has improved, but he will never be close to as good defensively as Marner. I also doubt that he will ever be the consistent 95+ point player Marner is either.

I think that Marner is about $3M better than Kyrou and that is not at all a knock on Kyrou. I wouldn't go much (of any) higher on Marner than $11M AAV, but that's a number I'd absolutely go to with Thomas under contract long-term at $8.125M.

If we could sell Marner on the quiet/easy St. Louis media and get him extended pre-trade at $11M x 8 years, I'd absolutely trade Kyrou for him. But this is all irrelevant speculation. We're not going to offer him a full NMC, we're not going to offer enough of the contract as bonus money, he probably wants more than $11M AAV on a sight-unseen extension, and I doubt that he'd pick St. Louis even if we met all his contractual demands.

The fact is, no one knows if Marner is a 95+ point player away from a dude scoring 50+ goals a year, every year. Can Marner generate his own offense? would he benefit Thomas? I don't think Marner is a good fit for this team or this market.

Been fixating on this idea. Please tell me how stupid of an idea it is.

Krug has three years left on his deal and is owed 6.5M in real dollars, or 21M total. Buying out Krug this summer reduces the amount the Blues are on the hook for to 14M spread over 6 years (2.33M per).

Dubois has 47.5M left on his contract over 7 years. A buyout of his contract is 15.8M spread over 14 years, 1.13M per year so long as the buyout occurs before his 26th birthday on 6/24/24.

If I'm Armstrong, I would strongly consider trading Krug for Dubois and futures and would proceed to buyout Dubois. It reduces the salary burden that the Blues are committed to Krug by 5.2M if they were to do nothing at all and spreads a potential Krug buyout over 14 years at close to the same total buyout dollars if the Blues were to consider buying out Krug. The only downside is that the Blues would also carry dead cap for 14 seasons over the life of the buyout, ranging between 1.13M and 3.82M with the max occurring in 2029-2030. That is a small amount of dead cap compared to some teams around the league (see Minnesota with 15M in dead cap between Parise and Suter).

Krug would obviously have to agree to waive for LA and the futures from LA would need to be worthwhile. Is a 1st this year and a B tier prospect enough? Say 6'5 LD Jakub Dvorak? Feel like this is a trade that could benefit both teams. What am I missing?

What you're missing is that if I tell you how bad of an idea this actually is I'll be banned. Why would we buy out anyone? We don't have a cap issue and we're not even competing for a cup.

 

[simon IC]

PLD has an NMC for the next four years. I am mystified by that contract.

 

[BrokenFace]

PLD has an NMC for the next four years. I am mystified by that contract.

Earlier this season I posted how happy I was that LA shot themselves in the foot with that trade and contract. I'm not interested in helping them out with it in the least, nor do I see the point in taking long term dead cap for a buy out. I'd much rather just see out Krug's contract. Not like he's taking up a roster spot from the type of D-man we need going forward (because we don't have enough of those right now) nor is his cap hit a big issue when we aren't contending.

 

[stl76]

For better or for worse, apparently Rob Blake came out in his end of season press conference and stated PLD would not be bought out. LA is stuck with that contract. They’ll just have to hope this year was an anomaly.

Personally, I’m sure PLD will have better years statistically, but he is who he is at point in terms of drive and compete level. Can’t help but think back to that shift he had in Columbus shortly before being traded…the guy gave up on his team. Haven’t been a fan of his since that moment.

 

[simon IC]

Earlier this season I posted how happy I was that LA shot themselves in the foot with that trade and contract. I'm not interested in helping them out with it in the least, nor do I see the point in taking long term dead cap for a buy out. I'd much rather just see out Krug's contract. Not like he's taking up a roster spot from the type of D-man we need going forward (because we don't have enough of those right now) nor is his cap hit a big issue when we aren't contending.

We are stuck with Krug for the next couple of years. He likes it here; he's starting a family, and Armstrong seems to like him. I am not thrilled with this, I was one of the ones who wanted nothing to do with him even before he became a UFA. I hated the signing the moment I heard about it, but I am resigned to it now. Hopefully, he can be moved more easily when his NTC becomes modified.

 

[WeWentBlues]

What you're missing is that if I tell you how bad of an idea this actually is I'll be banned. Why would we buy out anyone? We don't have a cap issue and we're not even competing for a cup.

Had to chuckle at that one. I'd argue the trade would kill two birds with one stone.
-It moves a contract that Armstrong has already tried to move last offseason.
-It saves the ownership group money during this retooling period. 21M paid out over the next three years maintaining the status quo has a much higher cost basis than 16M paid out over 14 1M installments.
-It adds two more pieces to the pipeline with the proposed 2024 1st and LD Dvorak.

I get the angst about having a dead cap hit for 14 seasons but its a really insignificant amount of the cap now and will be an even smaller percentage each year as the cap rises.

There is a very short window where a deal like this would even be possible as PLD's NMC kicks in July 1 and his buyout goes from 1/3 to 2/3 when he turns 26 on June 24. I'm not advocating for using the cap saved from moving Krug and acquiring other pieces to try to contend. Keep going down the same path.

EDIT: Nevermind. This is a terrible idea. Was looking at the buyout cost (16M) and did not include the signing bonus money which brings the total to 28M. Blues definitely aren't doing that.

 

[BrokenFace]

We are stuck with Krug for the next couple of years. He likes it here; he's starting a family, and Armstrong seems to like him. I am not thrilled with this, I was one of the ones who wanted nothing to do with him even before he became a UFA. I hated the signing the moment I heard about it, but I am resigned to it now. Hopefully, he can be moved more easily when his NTC becomes modified.

Agreed on all points. I just want it to be over when his contract is up. I'm not interested in a buy out or trading him for another bad contract that will be on our books for longer than the 3 years that Krug's will be.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Been fixating on this idea. Please tell me how stupid of an idea it is.

Krug has three years left on his deal and is owed 6.5M in real dollars, or 21M total. Buying out Krug this summer reduces the amount the Blues are on the hook for to 14M spread over 6 years (2.33M per).

Dubois has 47.5M left on his contract over 7 years. A buyout of his contract is 15.8M spread over 14 years, 1.13M per year so long as the buyout occurs before his 26th birthday on 6/24/24.

If I'm Armstrong, I would strongly consider trading Krug for Dubois and futures and would proceed to buyout Dubois. It reduces the salary burden that the Blues are committed to Krug by 5.2M if they were to do nothing at all and spreads a potential Krug buyout over 14 years at close to the same total buyout dollars if the Blues were to consider buying out Krug. The only downside is that the Blues would also carry dead cap for 14 seasons over the life of the buyout, ranging between 1.13M and 3.82M with the max occurring in 2029-2030. That is a small amount of dead cap compared to some teams around the league (see Minnesota with 15M in dead cap between Parise and Suter).

Krug would obviously have to agree to waive for LA and the futures from LA would need to be worthwhile. Is a 1st this year and a B tier prospect enough? Say 6'5 LD Jakub Dvorak? Feel like this is a trade that could benefit both teams. What am I missing?

I’m guessing you’ll get responses saying this already, as I catch up on the thread, but how is that preferable to just buying out Krug? Having an extra million in cap room is very valuable when the team is contending. 14 years of handicapping yourself is not appealing .

 

[WeWentBlues]

I’m guessing you’ll get responses saying this already, as I catch up on the thread, but how is that preferable to just buying out Krug? Having an extra million in cap room is very valuable when the team is contending. 14 years of handicapping yourself is not appealing .

It's not. PLD is owed 28M if bought out. From my original POV assuming the buyout dollars were the same (14M Krug over 6 years vs. 15.8M PLD over 14 years), I could see the merits of it assuming you got good surplus value for taking on that disaster contract. No way in hell Blues would pay someone 28M to not play for us though, even if spread over a much longer time period.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

It's not. PLD is owed 28M if bought out. From my original POV assuming the buyout dollars were the same (14M Krug over 6 years vs. 15.8M PLD over 14 years), I could see the merits of it assuming you got good surplus value for taking on that disaster contract. No way in hell Blues would pay someone 28M to not play for us though, even if spread over a much longer time period.

PLD exists to make us feel better about Krug’s contract.