Blue Jays/MLB 2024

[bellagiobob]

It’s becoming comical at this point.

 

[unicornBLOOD]

might as well do a full rebuild at this point, starting with all of management. It's pretty clear it's one of 2 things, or a combination of the 2. Either this management group can't make the signings and/or deals to build a competitive team and/or players don't want to sign with this team (maybe because of location, maybe because of how the team is built, maybe because of management).

No matter what or why it is, this team is a mess from top to bottom, and are so far from being competitive. This team has a huge advantage or being the only team from a country of about 42 million people. That's a whole of lot of fans and potential fans, and yet this management group is driving the fans away. I love the Jays, and I've never felt worse about the team and it's future than I do right now. it's just sad.

 

[OfCorsiDid]

Is there any lawyers on here?

If I erected two gallows that had two dummies strung up that had signs "Shapiro" and "Atkins" around their necks at the Skydome would I get:

A. Arrested.
B. Arrested and then charged and prosecuted.

Trying to mull something over.

 

[rboomercat90]

Is there any lawyers on here?

If I erected two gallows that had two dummies strung up that had signs "Shapiro" and "Atkins" around their necks at the Skydome would I get:

A. Arrested.
B. Arrested and then charged and prosecuted.

Trying to mull something over.

I hate these two as much as anybody (I’ve been posting for years that they should be fired) and if Guerrero bolting is what it takes to create enough of a public uproar for them to finally get axed then so be it. That said, I think Vladdy’s camp are the bad guys here. I don’t think they ever had any intention of signing a deal this offseason irregardless of what the Jays were offering. After seeing what’s been handed out to similar guys in the past few years going to free agency and the open bidding war that creates is too big of a temptation to pass up. I think Vladdy’s deadline for a deal was bogus. I think that was created with the hopes the media would leave him alone once spring training started and give him the excuse not to talk about it this year. They can still hound him all they want but he’s had a knack for pretending he doesn’t speak English and needs an interpreter for interviews so good luck with that.

 

[Fourier]

I hate these two as much as anybody (I’ve been posting for years that they should be fired) and if Guerrero bolting is what it takes to create enough of a public uproar for them to finally get axed then so be it. That said, I think Vladdy’s camp are the bad guys here. I don’t think they ever had any intention of signing a deal this offseason irregardless of what the Jays were offering. After seeing what’s been handed out to similar guys in the past few years going to free agency and the open bidding war that creates is too big of a temptation to pass up. I think Vladdy’s deadline for a deal was bogus. I think that was created with the hopes the media would leave him alone once spring training started and give him the excuse not to talk about it this year. They can still hound him all they want but he’s had a knack for pretending he doesn’t speak English and needs an interpreter for interviews so good luck with that.

Unless he regresses Vladdy will get his asking price as free agent. Baseball has seen a massive salary reset. The Jays have been rumored to be aggressively in on all the top free agents for two years including credible reports that they offered the most money for Ohtani and Soto. His camp knows this. Supposedly the ask was 12 years at $45M. It's a crazy amount but substantially less than they were offering Soto. (Term is obviously an issue but Bregman just got 3 years at $40M at age 30). Supposedly the Jays were never close to that number. Vladdy may not be Soto but is he worth $200-300M less given his importance to the franchise.

If Vladdy and Bo walk for nothing the team will be in a dark place for a decade given their depleted prospect pool and the fact that no decent FA will give them a look until things start to really turn around. Signing Vladdy or at the very least getting full value in a trade is about more than just the player. I think it is necessary to keep any credible sense that the team wants to compete and not be the Canadian version of the Pirates. Unfortunately, I don't trust this management to make lemonade out of this lemon of a situation that they have created for themselves.

 

[Stoneman89]

Unless he regresses Vladdy will get his asking price as free agent. Baseball has seen a massive salary reset. The Jays have been rumored to be aggressively in on all the top free agents for two years including credible reports that they offered the most money for Ohtani and Soto. His camp knows this. Supposedly the ask was 12 years at $45M. It's a crazy amount but substantially less than they were offering Soto. (Term is obviously an issue but Bregman just got 3 years at $40M at age 30). Supposedly the Jays were never close to that number. Vladdy may not be Soto but is he worth $200-300M less given his importance to the franchise.

If Vladdy and Bo walk for nothing the team will be in a dark place for a decade given their depleted prospect pool and the fact that no decent FA will give them a look until things start to really turn around. Signing Vladdy or at the very least getting full value in a trade is about more than just the player. I think it is necessary to keep any credible sense that the team wants to compete and not be the Canadian version of the Pirates. Unfortunately, I don't trust this management to make lemonade out of this lemon of a situation that they have created for themselves.

Welcome to the Edmonton Oilers circa post dynasty until the Katz/McDavid era.

 

[Fourier]

Welcome to the Edmonton Oilers circa post dynasty until the Katz/McDavid era.

Exactly! Though I think that the price the team will pay will be even greater out here. I could see attendance absolutely tanking. Rogers raised prices a lot after their big renovation. And if the team takes a dive I think there could be a lot of days where it might look more like a game in Tampa.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

What did they expect? You spend two offseasons in a row begging a couple of guys to take three quarters of a billion but you fight tooth and nail about paying 450M to your home grown talent who is the only thing standing between you and the abyss of irrelevance. Let’s face it, this team is going absolutely nowhere, they once again won’t sniff the playoffs, they’ve got almost nothing on the farm and the only exciting players they’ve had (Bichette not as much last year) are all but gone and I’m sure Atkins will do a great job of minimizing the return.

I’m honestly astonished Shapiro and Atkins still have jobs, they should never work in an mlb front office again. They’ll be a case study in the future on how to run a franchise into the ground. Anthopolous left them with a great start and Rogers have given them anything they needed and they haven’t even been able to maintain a mediocre team, they’ve completely sewered the team.

There isn’t much that surprises me these days but the fact these guys are still employed does. Rogers have spent well over a billion the last few years in payroll and stadium Reno’s, the team is about to tank and the fans are not happy. You’d be hard pressed to draw up a worse case scenario if you sat down and thought about it for the day.

 

[rboomercat90]

Unless he regresses Vladdy will get his asking price as free agent. Baseball has seen a massive salary reset. The Jays have been rumored to be aggressively in on all the top free agents for two years including credible reports that they offered the most money for Ohtani and Soto. His camp knows this. Supposedly the ask was 12 years at $45M. It's a crazy amount but substantially less than they were offering Soto. (Term is obviously an issue but Bregman just got 3 years at $40M at age 30). Supposedly the Jays were never close to that number. Vladdy may not be Soto but is he worth $200-300M less given his importance to the franchise.

If Vladdy and Bo walk for nothing the team will be in a dark place for a decade given their depleted prospect pool and the fact that no decent FA will give them a look until things start to really turn around. Signing Vladdy or at the very least getting full value in a trade is about more than just the player. I think it is necessary to keep any credible sense that the team wants to compete and not be the Canadian version of the Pirates. Unfortunately, I don't trust this management to make lemonade out of this lemon of a situation that they have created for themselves.

I agree with everything you’re saying. All I’m trying to point out is that there was no contract the Jays could offer this offseason that was going to get Vladdy to sign. He’s gotten this close to free agency now that he’s going to test it. The funniest part will be next offseason when he uses the Jays to drive the price up for the team he eventually signs with just like the last couple of big fish the team was happy to tell everyone they were close on.
This is still obviously the fault of Jays management but why should anybody be surprised that the two guys that have colossally screwed up everything they’ve touched since they got to Toronto screwed this up too. This is why you fire guys when they prove they’re awful instead of making excuses for them. Atkins probably should have been as far back as when Montoya was still here. It was a questionable hire to begin with and he let that go on a year and a half longer than he ever should have. He also shouldn’t have survived the 2023 season after the playoff debacle where he essentially threw Schneider under the bus and then kept him anyway. Shapiro should have been fired for sticking with Atkins after that. But, everybody is still here and the mess keeps getting bigger.

 

[Fourier]

I agree with everything you’re saying. All I’m trying to point out is that there was no contract the Jays could offer this offseason that was going to get Vladdy to sign. He’s gotten this close to free agency now that he’s going to test it. The funniest part will be next offseason when he uses the Jays to drive the price up for the team he eventually signs with just like the last couple of big fish the team was happy to tell everyone they were close on.
This is still obviously the fault of Jays management but why should anybody be surprised that the two guys that have colossally screwed up everything they’ve touched since they got to Toronto screwed this up too. This is why you fire guys when they prove they’re awful instead of making excuses for them. Atkins probably should have been as far back as when Montoya was still here. It was a questionable hire to begin with and he let that go on a year and a half longer than he ever should have. He also shouldn’t have survived the 2023 season after the playoff debacle where he essentially threw Schneider under the bus and then kept him anyway. Shapiro should have been fired for sticking with Atkins after that. But, everybody is still here and the mess keeps getting bigger.

I want to take Vladdy at his word that he would have signed if he got his price. It would have been a big risk for him to ask for 14x$45M, get it and turn it down. All it would take is an injury and he could cost himself $100M. To get that contract next year he needs to play like he did in the last couple of months. His skills are certainly obvious, but he has been somewhat inconsistent and he plays 1st base. The latter limits his value since it restricts his usefulness. For example, it probably takes a few of the big spenders out of the bidding.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

I want to take Vladdy at his word that he would have signed if he got his price. It would have been a big risk for him to ask for 14x$45M, get it and turn it down. All it would take is an injury and he could cost himself $100M. To get that contract next year he needs to play like he did in the last couple of months. His skills are certainly obvious, but he has been somewhat inconsistent and he plays 1st base. The latter limits his value since it restricts his usefulness. For example, it probably takes a few of the big spenders out of the bidding.

At the end of the day, I don’t think it’s just about money. Vlad probably doesn’t appreciate how they’ve handled the entire situation, and he may not want to tether himself long term to a franchise that has struggled to be competitive and doesn’t look like it’s getting any better.

Whether he has a down year or not it would not surprise me at all if he signs somewhere else for less than what his final ask of the Jays was. At the end Jays were probably getting the FU price.

 

[rboomercat90]

I want to take Vladdy at his word that he would have signed if he got his price. It would have been a big risk for him to ask for 14x$45M, get it and turn it down. All it would take is an injury and he could cost himself $100M. To get that contract next year he needs to play like he did in the last couple of months. His skills are certainly obvious, but he has been somewhat inconsistent and he plays 1st base. The latter limits his value since it restricts his usefulness. For example, it probably takes a few of the big spenders out of the bidding.

I’m curious why you and so many are willing to take him at his word. He’s been aloof at what his number is and even contradicted himself the other day when he said he had his number in mind but has adjusted it. I don’t think any specific ever number existed.

 

[Fourier]

I’m curious why you and so many are willing to take him at his word. He’s been aloof at what his number is and even contradicted himself the other day when he said he had his number in mind but has adjusted it. I don’t think any specific ever number existed.

I'll emphasize "want" here. As someone who is about to retire and who was hoping to get into more games I really want to hope that this works out. So it may well just be blind optimism on my part.