I've mostly defended Saros this year but that third goal was one of the worst I've ever seen him give up. Nothing he can do on 2 and 4, 1 was a brutal screen by Stastney
Post-Game Talk: Blosers @ Perds 7 pm CDT and the misery continues...
- Thread starter hockey diva
- Start date
-
Pickem has been rebuilt and TWO new NHL Survivor Pools are now open- Registration closes on Saturday, March 22th - Click here to join.
HF Sportsbook has also been rebuilt and will have all March Madness events in hockey and basketball
- Status
Kat Predator
Registered User
- Nov 28, 2019
- 3,783
- 3,779
If we can just figure out how to lace our skates in these last few games, we'll be a contender next year.Another game of bad luckIt's crazy how we just are so unlucky and there are no other problems with this team
@hockey diva is killing it! Let's go! Unicorn! Let's go! Unicorn!
Mass
Registered User
I can't get past that Tucker on Evangelista hit. One period after McCarron gets 5 minutes for interference on a hit with a mix of body and head contact (don't disagree with the call) Tucker goes all elbow and all head on Evangelista and it's 2 minutes for illegal check to the head? The NHL is never beating the roulette allegations.
You can no longer blame our youth for not showing you anything when we probably have one of the worst developmental staffs in the league. If anything this organizations stunts our development.
Byrddog
Lifer
- Nov 23, 2007
- 7,477
- 829
The thing is his game has been slipping for a while. His GAA has risen each of the last 4 seasons. Thru decent playiners in front of him to this scrambled egg sammich now. Two more years left really until one should expect his numbers to drop. What is he going to look like then? Many just say it's a thing he's going thru or he could turn it around. Well nearly 4 seasons of gradual decline is aii look n to the front in the kettle not noticing trouble until he's cooked. But honestly as poor as goal support has been it's hard to tell his future.
Armourboy
Hey! We suck!
Bad part is I'm not even sure we can blame what's going on in Milwaukee all that much. They play well down there, generally come up and play well, but the longer they are away from Milwaukee the worse they get.
To start the game Willie is talking g about how Smith is going to be double shifting. Why? Why in God's name would you double shift a guy with no offensive talent when you are having trouble scoring goals?
Byrddog
Lifer
- Nov 23, 2007
- 7,477
- 829
Poor development staff has been a tradition here. Drafting mid pack has not helped has deepened the wound. The few chances drafting in top 10 honestly Radulov is the only one that had a top career. Now there will be the Jones fans out there that will step up for him but he is still the same player we traded making rookie mistakes and his scoring touch just never developed thru how many teams now it's not like he didn't have different eyes to help him.
There is no guarantee what any young guy is going to do look at Connar Bedard sure he's just 19 but he is pacing for 20 goals and 50ish points.
There is a big difference in taking looks at young guys and rebuilding thru young guys. Buffalo is more than a decade into that Edmonton is 25 years into it and while they got to a final they still have missing pieces. Toronto has rebuilt three times since the Preds come into the league and is filled with offensive stars that will again not compete for the cup.
Trotz has pretty much laid it out offering the veterans a chance to move on if they wish. That confirms he is going to rebuild finally. He needs to discard Brunette because he is not going to be a help. This is also not the time to bring Taylor into this mess, he is ready to coach in the league but not be set up to fail for 5 years that would end his career.
Each day things are more in flux it's all on noneck until ownership grows a pair to make change.
But do they really play that well? Offensive players always has to work on their defensive game. There really hasn't been a young player in Milwaukee that has lit up the scoreboard besides maybe zlh and he's getting misused up here. I know this is hypothetical but I believe if kemmel was in another system he would be contributing in the nhl right now. We constantly over marinate our prospects in the ahl then underuse them when they come up. You can look around the league how many 21-23 year old players our contributing to their team. Just look at the team we played tonight halloway and neighbors are solid contributors. Not us we give zhl 10 minutes and Evangelista 13. Playing mostly with bottom 6 players.
Kat Predator
Registered User
- Nov 28, 2019
- 3,783
- 3,779
I'm done blaming it on mid 1st round draft picks because other teams mid draft picks are flourishing. Just look at dallas as an example or hell st louis. Robertson was a 2nd rounder. Hintz, Johnson, halloway, neighbors, Thomas kyrou. That's just 2 teams
I'm done blaming it on mid 1st round draft picks because other teams mid draft picks are flourishing. Just look at dallas as an example or hell st louis. Robertson was a 2nd rounder. Hintz, Johnson, halloway, neighbors, Thomas kyrou. That's just 2 teams
You can reach out to @hangman005 with proof you paid for it and they can restore your sponsorship.
I saw someone at game tonight wearing Vrana Preds jersey. He has played 4 games here. Like when did you have time to get the jersey made? And why?
Kat Predator
Registered User
- Nov 28, 2019
- 3,783
- 3,779
There are tons of mid 1st round picks that are total busts. Most of ours have eventually become NHL players. And if you don't draft in the top 2 or 3, your chance of finding a unicorn drafting 23rd is 0%.
The actual issue is one of process. We've historically drafted guys with NHL talent, but we haven't been in a position to draft top shelf talent. We bring everyone through Milwaukee and have them work on improving their overall games. We bring them up and if they show some skill and talent early on, we might keep them up. But there is a huge difference between success in the AHL and in the NHL. If the kid shows any signs of struggling, he's yo-yo'd up and down and in and out of the lineup, sabotaging his development. And now with Trotz and Bruno, the process deselects young forwards, minimizes their ice time, staples them to each other, devalues them based on the likes clicks, and dumps them. And they start finding their games again somewhere else.
Some of this process actually works. But overall the process sucks. We end up developing skilled forwards to give them away. We end up developing players we find on the scrap heap that work hard and have a talent deficit and end up double shifting those types. We end up with a collection of UFAs creating a log jam in the top 6 and with contracts and a hostile process will never give young players the time they need at the right point in their development trajectory. Overall, this process clearly sucks.
Armourboy
Hey! We suck!
When they first come up? Yes they do. They almost all come in playing with speed, they go to the net, and do what you want to see a young player do.
The other major issue is who they are playing with. In almost every case they spend the bulk of their time with 3rd or 4th line guys or they are playing on a line with other young players. Really hard to put up points when you are playing with McCarron and especially Smith. Smith is where offense goes to die.
Now I'm a bit different in that I think some time in Milwaukee for every young player is generally good. These guys don't need to be defensive juggernauts but they do need to not be a liability. Even if he wasn't there long that little bit of time really made a big difference in Forsbergs overall game. I think that's the difference though, they need a little bit of time, not 4 or 5 years.
I think the other big factor is drafting. Poile was notorious for taking the safe bet. I think what this has led too over the years is a mid floor but mid ceiling type of player we've always seen to have stick. It's why we get a lot of useful players but few high end ones.
I think you combine drafting with the coaches we have hired and you get what we've seen over the years. In 25 years we haven't had a single great forward come out of all of those picks, meanwhile other organizations have done it multiple times. That's poor drafting imo.
Porter Stoutheart
Ineptly Tanking
- Jun 14, 2017
- 14,914
- 11,293
I think the classic example of young guys coming in effectively and playing with speed and making a big contribution was that finishing stretch in 2022-23 when a ton of our big guns were all injured and we had NO CHOICE but to play Evangelista, Glass, Novak, etc more down the stretch. Parssinen had been more effective earlier in that season, Tomasino was more the season before. But anyway, they are all great examples of young guys coming in and playing well at least at some early point when we didn't really have a choice but to live with whatever mistakes or gaps existed in their development. We saw them succeed. Our hopes were raised. Then we saw them get shuffled back in favor of the grinder/tweener guys in subsequent seasons when everybody was healthy again.
It's just so frustrating. If the grinder/tweener guys were actually better and didn't make the same mistakes, well, that'd be another story. It certainly sends the message to the young guys to try to play more like the grinders though, right? Which stifles their creativity. And hence production. And then puts them even further in the hole with the organization. It sets them up for failure. And just gets repeated over and over and over with seemingly every player who comes up who has even an iota of skill. I see it happening with Evangelista, it's almost inevitable for Svechkov too. I don't know how we can break this cycle. You'd think finishing 30th in the league would send a clear message that things have to change. But they aren't changing.
Last edited:
Kat Predator
Registered User
- Nov 28, 2019
- 3,783
- 3,779
I believe it was @glenngineer who wrote a lengthy post at some point about alternative team structures and how some teams have started rolling at least 3 and maybe even 4 lines that have more offensive firepower and less of that classic "goon squad" grinder characteristic.
Anyway to that point, we don't seem to be able to shake off that "2 scoring lines, 2 lines of filler" old-school roster composition. Our bottom 6 has mostly been our grinder "identity" line which has struggled badly at times and carried the offensive load at other times and a line of young guys who statistically don't look bad but don't really get much ice time.
As long as that is the way we build our roster, I don't see us ever being successful in developing skilled forwards. Skilled guys aren't usually a Tkachuk who likes scoring AND fighting. And packing them together on a pseudo grind line for minimal minutes isn't going to light up the scoreboard either.
If we ever got a unicorn, then I guess there is a chance Trotzenbruno puts him in the top 6 to learn to play with ROR and Fil caliber players. Then again, maybe not.
Anyway to that point, we don't seem to be able to shake off that "2 scoring lines, 2 lines of filler" old-school roster composition. Our bottom 6 has mostly been our grinder "identity" line which has struggled badly at times and carried the offensive load at other times and a line of young guys who statistically don't look bad but don't really get much ice time.
As long as that is the way we build our roster, I don't see us ever being successful in developing skilled forwards. Skilled guys aren't usually a Tkachuk who likes scoring AND fighting. And packing them together on a pseudo grind line for minimal minutes isn't going to light up the scoreboard either.
If we ever got a unicorn, then I guess there is a chance Trotzenbruno puts him in the top 6 to learn to play with ROR and Fil caliber players. Then again, maybe not.
glenngineer
Registered User
It was me. We don't have elite talent and the numbers suggest if you don't have a true #1 line, the rest of the lines have to produce at a higher clip than usual. With that in mind, we have two guys on the fourth line that have produced 20 points between them. That's not going to get it done. If you go the three second line approach, the fourth line should be producing at a third line clip.
The other point about this is while that's great for the regular season, you have to have guys that up their game come playoff time. This is where guys like Fisher, Neal and Wilson were so valuable, they were big bodied guys who'd go into the corners, win battles and be hard to knock off the puck. Even Joey was good at that, hence the Cup run.
Say we land the 1OA pick and draft either Hagens or Misa, somehow land Marner via FA and the staff feels confident in putting those two together with Forsberg on the 1st line, I'm still not confident that the team would do well come playoff time. You'd have Stamkos, ROR and Marchessault as your second line and Bunting, Vange and Svechkov as your third line? Fourth line is Sissons, ZLH and one of Smith/McCarron? That forward corp is not a playoff lineup that can go four rounds.
Hockey is all about balance throughout the lineup and I have no idea how we get there at this point.
All right, so maybe I was wrong...
I still have hope for next year, though. It's really all I have at this point.
I still have hope for next year, though. It's really all I have at this point.
herzausstein
Registered User
I honestly wouldn't of minded an "identity line" concept if structured right. Have it be fast and full of agitator types. Ours is on the slower end. They have to be able to keep up with those they are on the ice against and when most of line is in the lower 50% of the league.... it isn't gonna happen.
Porter Stoutheart
Ineptly Tanking
- Jun 14, 2017
- 14,914
- 11,293
Our herd lines were the right mix. Just didn't last long... Trenin seemed to become a little placid, Jeannot imploded, and we ditched Olivier before he could break out. But if you had a couple guys to throw out there again with Sissons, like L'Heureux and Wiesblatt maybe as smaller agitators instead of physical tanks/fighters, maybe it could work? Or Schaefer if he hadn't got hurt and had kept up the steps he seemed to have taken in the very early part of the season.
Kat Predator
Registered User
- Nov 28, 2019
- 3,783
- 3,779
I wonder if it was just swinging the pendulum back to the other side though. The team that won the President's Trophy was remarkably balanced. We could roll all 4 lines against anybody and win a lot of games. But we didn't have a lot of goons and could get exploited a bit by a team with a heavier game.
Post-Lavi, we tried to get bigger and more physical, but we also got a lot slower and less skilled.
Now we're not terribly physical, fast, or skilled. We just suck.
herzausstein
Registered User
We roll our 4th line against anyone. Many times we regret it but we do it.I wonder if it was just swinging the pendulum back to the other side though. The team that won the President's Trophy was remarkably balanced. We could roll all 4 lines against anybody and win a lot of games. But we didn't have a lot of goons and could get exploited a bit by a team with a heavier game.
Post-Lavi, we tried to get bigger and more physical, but we also got a lot slower and less skilled.
Now we're not terribly physical, fast, or skilled. We just suck.
- Status
