Blast from the past: Why wasn't Claude Giroux a staple for Team Canada?

[slapKing]

Claude Giroux is one of the best players of his era, but during his prime, he wasn't one of the major defining players for Team Canada back in the 2010s. He was left off from the 2014 team. He was initially not selected for the 2016 WC team. It had to take a World Championship appearance of the same year for him to finally join the team, and even then, he only played 1 game in the tournament. 2018 the players couldn't attend the Olympics that year, but suffice to say the chances of Giroux joining the team were pretty low if NHLers were allowed to go that year.

Of course, Canada won in 2014 and 2016, and that's fine, but the question is, why wasn't Giroux given a chance at the highest level of international hockey? What did he lack per se compared to his Canadian centre counterparts of that era?

 

[jigglysquishy]

Rumour in 2014 was that Crosby asked he not be named to the team. The 2012 Flyers Penguins series carried a lot of bad blood.

In 2014, he was arguably the second best Canadian forward after Crosby. Especially with Stamkos' injury.

 

[Mathieukferland]

Canada at that time was rolling out 8+ hall of famers in their forwards group, so the completion for places was intense, even for a potential future hall of famer like Claude Giroux

 

[ORRFForever]

Sid hated him. (not sure if that's correct but that's been the rumour for years)

 

[SOLR]

Giroux is also not a good enough skater.

He never was.

 

[the valiant effort]

As with all petty things Hockey Canada they definitely held his absence from the 2013 orientation camp against him.

It’s also true, as mentioned, that there was no shortage of big-time forwards during that period.

 

[JackSlater]

Well realistically Giroux has two chances, in 2014 and 2016. I do think that Giroux should have made it, but people don't consider how Canada's teams are usually made and what types of players usually get cut. Playmaking centres often struggle to make team Canada, even hall of famers. Federko, Savard, Turgeon, Oates, Spezza - never made team Canada at the best on best level. Francis only made it late in his career after he got a stat boost from playing with Lemieux and Jagr. Yzerman got cut in 1987 and somehow in 1991. Giroux was behind Crosby (obviously better), Getzlaf (the incumbent, possibly better, brings variety as a physical centre, built in chemistry with Perry), and Toews (taking on defensive responsibilities. That left him basically one spot. In 2014 you can make the case that Tavares was better, and I'd certainly say that he was at least held in higher regard. Giroux was coming off a disappointing season and missed the summer camp in 2014.

In depth roles Canada usually likes versatile guys or guys with a standout physical attribute (size, skating etc) and it probably hurt Giroux that he lacked any notable physical attribute. In terms of playing on the wing, Canada very rarely takes playmakers on the wing. This is why St. Louis didn't make the team in 2010 or 2014. I still think that Giroux's defensive play made him versatile enough to take a depth spot, but obviously Yzerman disagreed.

I do think that Giroux would have made the 2018 Olympic team as a winger, rendering this thread moot in that situation... but I don't think he would have been a lock despite how strong he was that year.

Rumour in 2014 was that Crosby asked he not be named to the team. The 2012 Flyers Penguins series carried a lot of bad blood.

In 2014, he was arguably the second best Canadian forward after Crosby. Especially with Stamkos' injury.

I have never seen that rumour other than random fans saying it once in a while. Has any mildly legitimate source ever said it?

 

[Nucks2001]

He should have. I’m glad Hockey Canada at least gave him some Justice at the 2016 WCOH. He 100% should have been on the 2014 Olympic roster over Kunitz (failed experiment and proved why you always take the best player).

I think it was a mixture of Crosby not wanting him on the Olympic Team, him missing the orientation camp, and Canada wanting bigger wingers in their bottom 6 with guys like Carter, Marleau, Benn. For those saying Giroux wasn’t versatile enough, we’re talking about a 55% FO taker at the time, a premier PKer on the Flyers, and he could play both C and RW.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

If there are any legs to that Crosby thing, I’m surprised much hasn’t made about that against the “good guy” persona Sid has built over the years.

Where did that rumour originate from?

 

[Crosby2010]

Giroux if I recall had the most points in the NHL from 2011-'16. Maybe even from 2010. That's a 5-6 year span. That is actually pretty incredible. There were injuries to Crosby, Malkin and then of course Ovechkin had that lull in his career for a couple of years. But that's still impressive. He is one of those guys that you know his stat line, you know the things he brings to the table (eg. could easily play wing) and he had some good postseasons leading up to 2014. But while he got more points than other Team Canada players can you say he is necessarily better or more valuable? Because he has been one of those players in history where he makes any other country's team but with Canada you just think maybe he is too mundane to make the team. I don't know if that fits him, but even as I speak right now there is a decent case for him to make the HHOF someday but he has just always seemed like a player whose stats look better than what we saw on the ice. Maybe someone is with me on this but that's just how I feel. In 2018 considering he had a 102 point season and was a 2nd team all-star I would say the odds of him being on the Olympic team would have been strong. And let's keep in mind, along with St. Louis he was constantly talked about as a player that seemed snubbed from the 2014 Olympics (although they added St. Louis after the Stamkos injury). There are just some players a coach doesn't care for as much. For some reason Keenan had a bone to pick with Yzerman. How you leave him off the 1991 team is beyond me. I am not saying Giroux was at that level quite, but it was a surprise to see him left off the 2014 team. In 2014 he was in the middle of a season where he would finished 3rd in Hart voting.

And as others have mentioned, Crosby is king, Toews was right in the middle of his two-way career and he was winning Cups at that time. I wouldn't take Getzlaf off of that team over Giroux because Getzlaf always played well in the big games. Does a smallish playmaking centre fit here afterwards? Tavares could play the wing, Stamkos' speed was too much to like as well. Look at Adam Oates, you can't tell me he wasn't good enough to be on the 1991 Canada Cup team. He had a heck of a year in 1991. But there are times when a coach just looks at a guy like that and wonders where he fits. I get the feeling Giroux had that going against him as well. And let's not forget, the stacked rosters up front in 2014 and 2016 were hard to penetrate.

 

[Peiskos]

If I'm not mistaken he was on the 2015 IIHF WC gold team, Crosby was on that team too. Canada just had a lot of depth as is, he easily could have been on the 2014 Sochi team or the 2016 World Cup.

 

[jcbio11]

Very good question and I'm inclined to believe the Crosby not liking him rumors. Guy was a beast in the playoffs and would have been a beast for Team Canada too.

 

[JackSlater]

So is there any source that there were even rumours that Crosby kept him off the team? It seems very unlikely given what we know about Crosby and it was not a common rumour at the time, at best something people might throw out there as a little theory.

 

[Zenos]

So is there any source that there were even rumours that Crosby kept him off the team? It seems very unlikely given what we know about Crosby and it was not a common rumour at the time, at best something people might throw out there as a little theory.

Almost no chance IMO.

They played together on that stacked 2015 Team Canada at the IIHF Worlds. So we’re to believe that Crosby snubbed him at the Olympics only to change face a year later for a lesser tournament? That seems highly unlikely.

Crosby seems more like a highly competitive, put personal grievances aside for the good of the team / best chance of winning kind of guy. If there actually was some sort of beef there, they would have dealt with it maturely like the Oilers and Isles players did back in the day at the Canada Cup.

 

[JackSlater]

Almost no chance IMO.

They played together on that stacked 2015 Team Canada at the IIHF Worlds. So we’re to believe that Crosby snubbed him at the Olympics only to change face a year later for a lesser tournament? That seems highly unlikely.

Crosby seems more like a highly competitive, put personal grievances aside for the good of the team / best chance of winning kind of guy. If there actually was some sort of beef there, they would have dealt with it maturely like the Oilers and Isles players did back in the day at the Canada Cup.

Yes I agree, it doesn't seem to match what we know of him. I don't see Crosby as a diva or someone who would play that card. He even, according to somewhat credible sources I recall, offered Toews the captaincy in 2014, and that does not sound like a guy who would pull a huge ego move. If Crosby personally blocked Giroux from making the team and it got out it would be a black mark on him in my opinion and something of a scandal at the time.

I think it is much simpler to note that players with Giroux's profile have often not made team Canada at the best on best level. And yes, Crosby and Giroux played on the same team, and same power play unit, on the 2015 World Championship team and were dominant. Crosby even called Hockey Canada personally to ask to get on that team as a late addition, which again doesn't sound like a guy who was desperate to not play with Giroux.

 

[Summer Rose]

Yes I agree, it doesn't seem to match what we know of him. I don't see Crosby as a diva or someone who would play that card. He even, according to somewhat credible sources I recall, offered Toews the captaincy in 2014, and that does not sound like a guy who would pull a huge ego move. If Crosby personally blocked Giroux from making the team and it got out it would be a black mark on him in my opinion and something of a scandal at the time.

I think it is much simpler to note that players with Giroux's profile have often not made team Canada at the best on best level. And yes, Crosby and Giroux played on the same team, and same power play unit, on the 2015 World Championship team and were dominant. Crosby even called Hockey Canada personally to ask to get on that team as a late addition, which again doesn't sound like a guy who was desperate to not play with Giroux.

The only thing I'd remotely believe is if it got out that Crosby was asked about his opinion on whether they should select Giroux for the team and he said no (and from Crosby, it would be a softer way of saying no; he wouldn't have said "absolutely not"). I would not for a second believe a rumor that Crosby specifically went out of his way to give Canada's selectors a negative opinion about whether Giroux should be chosen or not.

 

[SOLR]

Can we stop talking about Crosby?


Giroux was too slow for the international game, end of the story.


There's a lot of people who think producing in the NHL is what is needed to get on the national team. The national team level is higher level of play than the NHL (faster, higher IQ). Corey Locke dominated the AHL. He couldnt cut it in the NHL. Giroux dominated the NHL, we just had 15-20 players better than him for the international game.

 

[JackSlater]

Can we stop talking about Crosby?


Giroux was too slow for the international game, end of the story.


There's a lot of people who think producing in the NHL is what is needed to get on the national team. The national team level is higher level of play than the NHL (faster, higher IQ). Corey Locke dominated the AHL. He couldnt cut it in the NHL. Giroux dominated the NHL, we just had 15-20 players better than him for the international game.

Canada picked Tavares over GIroux for the fourth line centre spot and had Perry as a top six winger, it wasn't just about speed with Giroux. Giroux was also arguably Canada's best forward on the stacked 2015 world championship team, there is little reason to think that he "couldn't cut it" internationally. Playmaking centre spots are scarce and Canada doesn't usually take playmakers on the wing.

 

[SOLR]

Canada picked Tavares over GIroux for the fourth line centre spot and had Perry as a top six winger, it wasn't just about speed with Giroux. Giroux was also arguably Canada's best forward on the stacked 2015 world championship team, there is little reason to think that he "couldn't cut it" internationally. Playmaking centre spots are scarce and Canada doesn't usually take playmakers on the wing.

Both Tavares and Perry were not in competition with Giroux.

Giroux lack of speed was making him uncompetitive against players in the same role.

I wasn't saying Giroux can't play internationally, I was saying Canada had better international players than him. He was losing internal competitions.

 

[JackSlater]

Both Tavares and Perry were not in competition with Giroux.

Giroux lack of speed was making him uncompetitive against players in the same role.

I wasn't saying Giroux can't play internationally, I was saying Canada had better international players than him. He was losing internal competitions.

Giroux and Tavares were in direct competition. Canada's first three centre spots were locked in at that time, it was the fourth that was open. Giroux's stylistic comparables often fail to make team Canada because of the way the team is usually structured. I agree that a faster Giroux would have made Canada, but a faster Giroux would possibly have been the best player in the world. Canada selected worse "international players" in 2014 in some cases.

 

[SOLR]

They were, and they weren't, Tavares had similar production but Tavares was a lot harder to play against.

"Canada selected worse "international players" in 2014 in some cases."
Agreed, not all roles had similar talent levels. Corey Perry for example, one can image a better player in that role with a more rounded-up game and faster skating, with the same attitude. But you can't replace him in that role unless you have a player bringing the same ingredients (to some extent).