Taze em
Registered User
- Apr 20, 2012
- 8,711
- 1,084
Blackhawks Special Teams
- Thread starter Taze em
- Start date
CallMeShaft
Registered User
- Apr 14, 2014
- 16,450
- 23,152
Yeah, Dean handles the PK and the defense. King handles the PP and powerplay, or at least he did before the coaching change.
What's really impressive with the PK is the goalies we've had. Mrazek is solid when healthy, but he isn't a top 10 guy in the league. Soderblom has been great this season, surprisingly, but he isn't either. LB hasn't even dressed for a game yet, and Commesso got his first NHL start during that long streak.
So it's not like we got Hellebuyck or Vasilevsky back there to bail out the PK. The PK's success is full team effort.
And yes, the regulars on the PK certainly are likely improving their value by being on it. Murphy, Mikheyev, and Dickinson are probably moved at one of the next two deadlines, and them continuing to excel on the PK would help us get more back for them.
What's really impressive with the PK is the goalies we've had. Mrazek is solid when healthy, but he isn't a top 10 guy in the league. Soderblom has been great this season, surprisingly, but he isn't either. LB hasn't even dressed for a game yet, and Commesso got his first NHL start during that long streak.
So it's not like we got Hellebuyck or Vasilevsky back there to bail out the PK. The PK's success is full team effort.
And yes, the regulars on the PK certainly are likely improving their value by being on it. Murphy, Mikheyev, and Dickinson are probably moved at one of the next two deadlines, and them continuing to excel on the PK would help us get more back for them.
Great effort by the guys and the staff.
Seth Jones is coming back though, so we shouldn't worry about that record. His random low effort moments will make sure of that.
I think like you said, Vlasic showed he can be a legit top pair D to rely on heavily. That was the argument for Seth, but he's not a necessity anymore in any sense imo.
Chelios
Registered User
I will never get the Jones hatred. Guess what, it’s not a bad thing to have multiple defensemen who can handle big minutes.
Kurtosis
GHG
It’s hard for some people to separate the trade from the player and his play on the ice.
Couldn't care less about that trade. I actually didn't even mind it at the time because it was going rate for a young 1D.
Only turns out we didn't get a reliable 1D. My dislike for him is solely based on the second part of your sentence.
I don't get is the moaning if someone voices negative opinions about him. Why is that? Is he above criticism?
I hate his low effort. This is a guy that has all the tools in the world really, yet you see so much nonchalant moments from him game to game. He could be so much more if he had a motor. It costs goals against, games. I get anxious thinking about having him out in a tight playoffs game down the line.
Not to mention the low IQ offensive moments. Ok fine I guess expecting to be perfect there is too much, but it is still annoying, especially when the guy plays 25mins and all the PP minutes. And is here for 9.5 mil and 5 more years. With an NMC, yikes.
Who even cares about the trade anymore?
Chelios
Registered User
When you are moaning about Jones coming back when we have Brodie playing then I question your judgement. Seth makes some
bonehead plays on occasion for sure, but criticizing his effort is ludicrous, especially considering the amount of minutes he plays.
Fine on your first point, but absolutely disagree with the bolded.
Callidusblackhawk
Registered User
It may be less low effort and more lack of recognition of the obvious often enough to be a problem.
Re Special Teams, on the PP I would like to see Nazar and Bedard out together with each rolling through the slot for shot opportunities ala Panthers with Reinhard
Yeah this is probably a much more apt description. I don't think he doesn't ever hustle or in general shows no effort, but more so every so often he has controller disconnect moments, where he takes too slow to recognize he should sprint/he should take the body/he should be in that spot etc.
It looks so nonchalant... But could be a recognition thing. Has them offensively too when he shoots into shins or goes selfish on breakaways.
ThatvIS the problem...Seth IS NOT A NECESSITY on eitger PP or PK...I insist he really has no proper instinct to be a dman...
He is athletic..he has good size...goodxsperd ...hiis effort iis inconsistent but worse his mind wanders off focus and plays result in goals t agaibst a result...he has terrible gap control...makes some puzzling decisions...His shot isvoff the mark way too often..Sometimes he makes good physical stopping tge puck carrier plays and other times he fails at it...I see little anticipation skill...more reaction and as a result leads to poor decisions whether to go chase or stay in position..Aside from hisvkiusyvshot,the main criticisms are inconsistency through 60 minutes and less of focus plus not maximizing the great athletic skill he naturally has..He zhoukd be a lot better ...butcalas it never really all came together.
Sure hevpkaysvlitscof minutes...maybe that contributes to too much fTigue or loss of focus at key tomes once retain shifts..
Bottom line I just do not think he has enough instinct for the position...,I also see little covering to bail out his d-partner in pairing gs if that guy is beaten or makes a mistake.
However ..I do like his size and soeed (going forward straight line)..I think he shoukd becmoved to a winger .be a power forward..to create chaos in o-zobe Nd piubd the oop dmen..Hexwoujdcget shorter shifts...and freedom from the complexity of reads on dmas a forward compared to alk a dman mustvoricess,I think hecwoukd be a forcexas a forward..not as a goal scoreer himself.. but giving problems for teams in their d-zone...and creating more space for hisxlibematescto operate out there.
And tge Hawks need that kibdvofvpkayervuo front..
Seth shoukd be better as a force out there than Joey Anderson or Craig Smith ..j
They should move hom to winger and use what he can bring to that roke for him.
Ge can rush the puck in to thevo-zobe especialky if not worried about being a d-man caught in too deep...His mind woukd focus on a simpler game.. Use his athleticism skating and power for effect in shorter shifts and less minutes so less fatigued..
Now it rarely has been done to move dmen to winger with goid effectvi the NHL.. Wibgercto dman done more often..
Howver Hawks have had I tgeir history 2 very successful transformations from dman to winger.
1 Old -tiners will recall Hawks doing that with Doug Mohns back i the Hull/Mikitaera..
.
2.Tgecgreat impact DustinDyfugkien had after being moved fromD to up front on the wing..
Now ...$9.5 is not as Big as tgevunicorn type Big Buff was when they used homes a power disruotirvup onthecwing.
However Seth beibg a better faster skater can use his athleticismand piwrr in combination action as also be disruptive and a problem for defenders on thevopos.
Release Seth from the complex responsibilities a top dman has to be good at and just let hom co entrancing doubgbonlyva few things well...transport puck into o-zobe at full speed off the wing...if lose cobtrol I o-zo e go poubdctge dmen on a forecheck...causi g turnovers and scaribgvthem fro getting hot with a speeding freight train...and create gapsxsnd space between the dots for libenates to operate morevfree off their checks who get occupied having to try to stop Jones crashing the net.
Use him as a big fast physical disruptor.
He will never be a big goal scorer but lots of assists cobe fron physical checks and recovery of pucks tovsetbup more open guys.
Just make him do a few things lijecthisxeelk and we then can live with 5 more seasons with him after this season.
Sure you woukdcratgerbpay $9.5 for a goid top dman or a top 2vkibe scoribgvforward...but an effective bogbpiwrr forward disruptor presence at least re-coups some of that cost into greater value than what we get with him now.
He never will be Zach Werenski . As a dman...but he coukd give opposi g efenses fits as a disruptive piwrr forward.
That is how I see solving the dilemma we have usibg hom back on a top pairingas a dman..or even with any otger pairingvback there.
I think that would be a liservpripisition..unless Sorenson isca miracle worker and actually gets $9.5 elite dnan performance from Seth.. I doubt that .so think ,ANDErS, try him at forward and as Jim tobdo less but do just a few things well.
He is athletic..he has good size...goodxsperd ...hiis effort iis inconsistent but worse his mind wanders off focus and plays result in goals t agaibst a result...he has terrible gap control...makes some puzzling decisions...His shot isvoff the mark way too often..Sometimes he makes good physical stopping tge puck carrier plays and other times he fails at it...I see little anticipation skill...more reaction and as a result leads to poor decisions whether to go chase or stay in position..Aside from hisvkiusyvshot,the main criticisms are inconsistency through 60 minutes and less of focus plus not maximizing the great athletic skill he naturally has..He zhoukd be a lot better ...butcalas it never really all came together.
Sure hevpkaysvlitscof minutes...maybe that contributes to too much fTigue or loss of focus at key tomes once retain shifts..
Bottom line I just do not think he has enough instinct for the position...,I also see little covering to bail out his d-partner in pairing gs if that guy is beaten or makes a mistake.
However ..I do like his size and soeed (going forward straight line)..I think he shoukd becmoved to a winger .be a power forward..to create chaos in o-zobe Nd piubd the oop dmen..Hexwoujdcget shorter shifts...and freedom from the complexity of reads on dmas a forward compared to alk a dman mustvoricess,I think hecwoukd be a forcexas a forward..not as a goal scoreer himself.. but giving problems for teams in their d-zone...and creating more space for hisxlibematescto operate out there.
And tge Hawks need that kibdvofvpkayervuo front..
Seth shoukd be better as a force out there than Joey Anderson or Craig Smith ..j
They should move hom to winger and use what he can bring to that roke for him.
Ge can rush the puck in to thevo-zobe especialky if not worried about being a d-man caught in too deep...His mind woukd focus on a simpler game.. Use his athleticism skating and power for effect in shorter shifts and less minutes so less fatigued..
Now it rarely has been done to move dmen to winger with goid effectvi the NHL.. Wibgercto dman done more often..
Howver Hawks have had I tgeir history 2 very successful transformations from dman to winger.
1 Old -tiners will recall Hawks doing that with Doug Mohns back i the Hull/Mikitaera..
.
2.Tgecgreat impact DustinDyfugkien had after being moved fromD to up front on the wing..
Now ...$9.5 is not as Big as tgevunicorn type Big Buff was when they used homes a power disruotirvup onthecwing.
However Seth beibg a better faster skater can use his athleticismand piwrr in combination action as also be disruptive and a problem for defenders on thevopos.
Release Seth from the complex responsibilities a top dman has to be good at and just let hom co entrancing doubgbonlyva few things well...transport puck into o-zobe at full speed off the wing...if lose cobtrol I o-zo e go poubdctge dmen on a forecheck...causi g turnovers and scaribgvthem fro getting hot with a speeding freight train...and create gapsxsnd space between the dots for libenates to operate morevfree off their checks who get occupied having to try to stop Jones crashing the net.
Use him as a big fast physical disruptor.
He will never be a big goal scorer but lots of assists cobe fron physical checks and recovery of pucks tovsetbup more open guys.
Just make him do a few things lijecthisxeelk and we then can live with 5 more seasons with him after this season.
Sure you woukdcratgerbpay $9.5 for a goid top dman or a top 2vkibe scoribgvforward...but an effective bogbpiwrr forward disruptor presence at least re-coups some of that cost into greater value than what we get with him now.
He never will be Zach Werenski . As a dman...but he coukd give opposi g efenses fits as a disruptive piwrr forward.
That is how I see solving the dilemma we have usibg hom back on a top pairingas a dman..or even with any otger pairingvback there.
I think that would be a liservpripisition..unless Sorenson isca miracle worker and actually gets $9.5 elite dnan performance from Seth.. I doubt that .so think ,ANDErS, try him at forward and as Jim tobdo less but do just a few things well.
Backyard Hockey
Dealing With It
- Feb 13, 2015
- 14,875
- 5,727
It’s been stellar. But props to Soda. Outside of the one stinker, he’s been stellar I don’t think I’ve seen a guy do a bigger season to season jump. Last year, he looked like a guy who be playing in the Swedish beer leagues. Kudos to Jimmy Waite
fiddytranslator
Registered User
- Dec 20, 2024
- 5
- 49
The problem with Seth is that he’s not a necessity on either the power play or penalty kill. I don’t think he has the instincts to be a defenseman.
Yes, he’s athletic, has good size, and decent experience, but his effort is inconsistent. More troubling is that his focus tends to wander, and that leads to mistakes that result in goals against. He has poor gap control and makes some puzzling decisions. His shot is often off the mark, and while sometimes he makes solid physical plays to stop the puck carrier, other times he fails.
He doesn’t seem to anticipate plays well; instead, he reacts, which leads to poor decisions about whether to chase or stay in position. Besides his heavy shot, the main criticisms are his inconsistency over 60 minutes, lack of focus, and failure to maximize his athleticism. He should be a lot better, but it hasn’t come together.
Sure, he plays a lot of minutes, which might contribute to fatigue or a loss of focus at key moments during shifts.
Bottom line, I don’t think he has enough instinct for the position. I also don’t see him covering for his defense partner when they make mistakes.
That said, I do like his size and speed (especially in straight lines). I think he should be moved to a winger role as a power forward to create chaos in the offensive zone and pressure opposing defensemen. He could get shorter shifts and be freed from the complexities of being a defenseman. This would allow him to use his athleticism, skating, and power more effectively. He could become a force as a forward—not necessarily as a goal scorer, but as a player who creates problems for the opposing defense and opens up space for teammates.
The Hawks need this kind of player up front. Seth could be more effective as a force in the offensive zone than players like Joey Anderson or Craig Smith. He should be moved to winger to better utilize what he brings to the table.
He can rush the puck into the offensive zone, especially without the worry of being caught too deep as a defenseman. His mind would be focused on a simpler game, using his speed and power in shorter shifts, which would reduce fatigue.
Moving defensemen to winger isn’t common in the NHL, but the Hawks have had success with it in the past.
- Old-timers will recall when the Hawks moved Doug Mohns from defense to forward in the Hull/Mikita era.
- The impact Dustin Byfuglien had when he was moved from defense to forward was significant.
Releasing him from the complex responsibilities of being a top defenseman and letting him focus on a few key things—like transporting the puck into the offensive zone at full speed, creating turnovers with his forechecking, and opening up space for teammates—could make him an effective player. He won’t be a big goal scorer, but his physical play and ability to recover pucks could set up scoring chances for others.
This approach could be a better fit for him over the next few seasons. Sure, you'd rather pay $9.5 million for a top defenseman or a top scoring forward, but an effective power forward could provide value and disrupt the opposition in ways Seth isn't doing as a defenseman.
He’ll never be a player like Zach Werenski as a defenseman, but he could give opposing defenses fits as a power forward. That’s how I see solving the dilemma of whether to keep him as a top-pairing defenseman or move him to forward.
Unless the coaching staff can somehow unlock elite defenseman performance from Seth (which I doubt), I think moving him to forward would be the best solution. He could focus on doing just a few things well and help the team in the process.
BobbyJet
The accountability era?
Since he arrived in Chicago, we have seen Seth Jones often try to put this team on his back. He has had some success but he has also been inconsistent on a piss-poor team.
What we haven't seen is how he will fare when the team finally improves. A team that welcomes dmen joining the rush confidently knowing the team game is good enough to cover his position when necessary. That is the Seth Jones I am waiting to see. Has Chicago reached that point yet? No. Not even close but they seem to be headed in the right direction. Time will tell.
On another note: HF50 seems to always be pining for a dmen to be moved to the forward position. I don't think Seth is suited for that but how about Kaiser or even KK? Just a thought.
What we haven't seen is how he will fare when the team finally improves. A team that welcomes dmen joining the rush confidently knowing the team game is good enough to cover his position when necessary. That is the Seth Jones I am waiting to see. Has Chicago reached that point yet? No. Not even close but they seem to be headed in the right direction. Time will tell.
On another note: HF50 seems to always be pining for a dmen to be moved to the forward position. I don't think Seth is suited for that but how about Kaiser or even KK? Just a thought.
Just want to add another, good old # 11 Johnny Marks!
Being successful on the PK has a lot to do with speed and effort. The PK units have been great. On top of that, they're being aggressive when they should be. Gone seem to be the days of just sitting back and letting the opposition do whatever they want. It's great to see.
Darkstar
Registered User
It sure is, because I thought he was regaling us with a tale about how a nor'easter blew him off course and he ended up in Galway. Then he almost got into a huge donnybrook because the lads thought he was taking the piss with that accent. Then they all became fast mates, got totally pissed on Guinness, sang some rebel songs and ended up in a huge brawl anyway because...Ireland.
