Shareefruck
Registered User
No problem. I just realized that the in-game bestiary descriptions (especially of the story relevant bosses) seem to give you a lot of that context as well.
Black Myth: Wukong - New game from Game Science
- Thread starter Rodgerwilco
- Start date
Rodgerwilco
Entertainment boards w/ some Hockey mixed in.
- Feb 6, 2014
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Yes I’ve been reading those a lot, great resource and helps understand the place for them in the over-arching story.
Jovavic
Concept of a Plan
Finished chapter 1, loved that ending animation. Got to the first temple in the new area and I dig the new bad guys and environment so far. After the snake I didn't have too much trouble with the remaining bosses in the chapter, though if you ring the third bell (after the snake), the big headed Wight in one of the earlier areas will no longer spawn, which is lame. I can upgrade my weapon again but I'm low on Will.
Jovavic
Concept of a Plan
I'm deep into chapter 2, tried the tiger boss a few times then I left to get more sparks. I like how the land in this chapter is more open with more paths and hidden stuff than chapter 1. I still would like a bow or something for long distance.
Rodgerwilco
Entertainment boards w/ some Hockey mixed in.
- Feb 6, 2014
- 7,794
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That tiger boss is a doozy, gave me some fits!
I would recommend This Website for an interactive map. Without a compass it's still a bit challenging to figure out which way to go, but once you can get the hang of which way is which it really helps out a lot.
I was getting clobbered by the Chapter 2 Final Boss over and over before I back-tracked and used the map to realize how much additional content I was missing. When I went through a cleaned up some side bosses and got some more sparks and upgrades I wiped the floor with him fairly easily.
Jovavic
Concept of a Plan
I've been stuck him for a bit so I went exploring and finished finding the Buddha Eyes (only fought that boss once, doesn't seem too hard), found some meditation spots, I believe I have 39 sparks now to distribute. My next try, I'm going to use that snakeskin armor to see if it's buffs work in the blood.
Rodgerwilco
Entertainment boards w/ some Hockey mixed in.
- Feb 6, 2014
- 7,794
- 7,131
I was curious if those water buffs worked in the blood. I found with the Tiger Boss that I was being too aggressive and trying to squeeze in every bit of damage instead of just waiting for the fight to come to me and striking when it's safe.
I'm not very experienced with these kinds of fights so I'm still trying to get my bearings with the tougher bosses.
Shareefruck
Registered User
More context for anyone interested:
Chapter 3 (+ a bit of Chapter 2):
I mentioned before that Journey to the West is about Monk Tang and a bunch of vice-obsessed demons assigned to be his bodyguards (Monkey, Pig, Bandit) on his pilgrimmage. Jinchanzi (the unexplained monk at the end of the animation) was a disciple of Buddha wrestling with the meaning behind his teachings, and to reflect on that, gets banished to live 10 lifetimes on earth as a pious man, and the final reincarnation of him was Monk Tang.
Back when he was Jinchanzi: Yellow Brow (his brother, I think?) believes in inherent evil in people while Jinchanzi believes in inherent good. The animation shows one of their back and forth attempts to prove each other wrong by observing human behavior. Yellow Brow's story is that he insecurely projects is own inner demons onto everyone else and is obsessed with showing that human nature is evil (even if it requires manipulating the results). This is a coping mechanism to self-rationalize his own personal failings, and Jinchanzi calls him out on it. His response is kind of like "Why argue unless you share this failing too? Check mate."
Fun fact: The mini-boss "Non-Void" is the man from the Ch. 2 animation-- one of Yellow Brow's monks. He argues that ends justifies the means (killing Fox to prevent future dangers)-- Twisted thinking that humans are doomed by (theme of Ch.2 animation is that inferior and superior beings will tragically always be separated by that way of thinking-- something mentioned again in Ch. 5's animation).
Chapter 3 (+ a bit of Chapter 2):
I mentioned before that Journey to the West is about Monk Tang and a bunch of vice-obsessed demons assigned to be his bodyguards (Monkey, Pig, Bandit) on his pilgrimmage. Jinchanzi (the unexplained monk at the end of the animation) was a disciple of Buddha wrestling with the meaning behind his teachings, and to reflect on that, gets banished to live 10 lifetimes on earth as a pious man, and the final reincarnation of him was Monk Tang.
Back when he was Jinchanzi: Yellow Brow (his brother, I think?) believes in inherent evil in people while Jinchanzi believes in inherent good. The animation shows one of their back and forth attempts to prove each other wrong by observing human behavior. Yellow Brow's story is that he insecurely projects is own inner demons onto everyone else and is obsessed with showing that human nature is evil (even if it requires manipulating the results). This is a coping mechanism to self-rationalize his own personal failings, and Jinchanzi calls him out on it. His response is kind of like "Why argue unless you share this failing too? Check mate."
Fun fact: The mini-boss "Non-Void" is the man from the Ch. 2 animation-- one of Yellow Brow's monks. He argues that ends justifies the means (killing Fox to prevent future dangers)-- Twisted thinking that humans are doomed by (theme of Ch.2 animation is that inferior and superior beings will tragically always be separated by that way of thinking-- something mentioned again in Ch. 5's animation).
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Shareefruck
Registered User
Chapter 4:
Like Jinchanzi, every protagonist of the original story gets sent on the Journey to the West in order to reform from their past faults. Initially, Bajie was a big-shot humanoid god (who actually amusingly runs into Wukong as he's throwing his initial temper tantrum against heaven, and is actually one of the escalating domino effects that leads to that). However, he unrequitedly falls in love with a female god (first girl in the animation) already in a relationship, tries to seduce her (some versions it's just flirting, other versions it's scheming/sabotaging to get her to fall in love with him instead), and for that, he gets banished to living multiple heartbroken lifetimes on earth, one reincarnation being the Bajie who's a pig demon.
Fun fact: The couple that he tries to get between becomes the Moon god/goddess-- Sokka's whole storyline with Yue becoming the moon spirit in Avatar: The Last Airbender is pretty clearly directly lifted from this, IMO.
The Violet spider was also originally someone in heaven who fell in love with the humanoid god version of Bajie (second girl in the animation) as the above happened, after finding out what happened to him, despite never doing anything punishable, asks to be banished to earth as well so that she can be with him (in some versions, her wish/plea gets "monkey-pawed" and she becomes a spider demon because "spider" and "pig" sound similar in Chinese-- both "Zhu").
During the actual Journey, the crew encounter/fight the Spider Demons (which involved Bajie killing Violet Spider's sisters before he recognized her), and according to Black Myth, Violet spider ended up conceiving one of his children. Instead of being with her, he honors his responsibility to continue the Journey (which is why she keeps saying he chose the monkey over her).
(the third girl in the animation is unimportant, just a random human horrified by his form).
Like Jinchanzi, every protagonist of the original story gets sent on the Journey to the West in order to reform from their past faults. Initially, Bajie was a big-shot humanoid god (who actually amusingly runs into Wukong as he's throwing his initial temper tantrum against heaven, and is actually one of the escalating domino effects that leads to that). However, he unrequitedly falls in love with a female god (first girl in the animation) already in a relationship, tries to seduce her (some versions it's just flirting, other versions it's scheming/sabotaging to get her to fall in love with him instead), and for that, he gets banished to living multiple heartbroken lifetimes on earth, one reincarnation being the Bajie who's a pig demon.
Fun fact: The couple that he tries to get between becomes the Moon god/goddess-- Sokka's whole storyline with Yue becoming the moon spirit in Avatar: The Last Airbender is pretty clearly directly lifted from this, IMO.
The Violet spider was also originally someone in heaven who fell in love with the humanoid god version of Bajie (second girl in the animation) as the above happened, after finding out what happened to him, despite never doing anything punishable, asks to be banished to earth as well so that she can be with him (in some versions, her wish/plea gets "monkey-pawed" and she becomes a spider demon because "spider" and "pig" sound similar in Chinese-- both "Zhu").
During the actual Journey, the crew encounter/fight the Spider Demons (which involved Bajie killing Violet Spider's sisters before he recognized her), and according to Black Myth, Violet spider ended up conceiving one of his children. Instead of being with her, he honors his responsibility to continue the Journey (which is why she keeps saying he chose the monkey over her).
(the third girl in the animation is unimportant, just a random human horrified by his form).
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Shareefruck
Registered User
Chapter 5:
The animated sequence is a bit confusing because it constantly hops between three eras (sometimes within the same scene): Ox King/Wukong before, during, and after the Journey to the West (according to Black Myth). Also confusing because Ox King's immortal and doesn't actually die, so the severed head is misleading.
Ox King is written like this tragic character who continuously makes the wrong choice and suffers for it.
BEFORE the journey, Wukong and Ox King were best-bro "demons" on the non-righteous side. Think of them like extremist libertarians who embrace their vices and have an attitude like "As demons, we gotta stick together, and if nobody will give us respect anyways, we'll do whatever we please and take it for ourselves". It sounds like in this version of the story, Ox King assists Wukong in his FIRST temper tantrum against the heavens. While Wukong was punished with the journey, apparently Ox King was punished by being forced into conceiving Red Boy.
DURING the journey, the protagonists fight/defeat Red Boy, resulting in him becoming a servant of the celestial court. Ox King and Princess Iron Fan (married, with tons of family drama due to Ox King sleeping around) resent them for it and refuse to let them borrow her iron fan, which they need to cross a mountain that's on fire. Due to this drama, they engage in escalating deceptions involving tricking them with fake fans and using transformations to pose as Bull King/Bajie and trick the other party into giving the fan. Wukong ends up taking it by force, and Bajie kills his concubine Fox guai, so they end on very bad terms. Tension between Wukong and Ox King stems from Wukong flipping to the righteous side over the course of the Journey, which feels like a betrayal to him. The scene with the severed head is either how the group (with help from the heavens) defeated the Ox King to take the fan, or a tantrum he throws after that, which gets him subdued.
AFTER the journey, it appears that Ox King either took Wukong's advice to heart and became a servant to the heavens, and instead of assisting Wukong in his SECOND temper tantrum, instead assists in taking him down (along with the previous chapter bosses, who are each rewarded with Wukong's five senses). But as Wukong tells him in his (sort of?) dying breath, as a Yaoguai, they'll always consider them criminals no matter what they do for them (furthering Ox King's tragic existence).
This was also the main theme of Chapter 2's animated sequence, and why Bajie shows no remorse in killing the concubine (even though initially, Bajie could be considered a Yaoguai as well, since he's on the righteous side when tasked with the Journey, he treats Yaoguais he encounters like a disposable evil not worth considering).
Edit: There's a famous Chinese idiom that goes something like "When you're a child, you're Wukong, an undisciplined/uncaring ball of reckless energy that thinks nothing can stop you, when you're a teenager, you become Bazie, an escapist slave to your impulses, distractions, and desires, then when you grow up and start a family, you become Ox King, a defeated shell of a person living in fear/indecision, worrying about every little outcome and making the wrong choices."
The animated sequence is a bit confusing because it constantly hops between three eras (sometimes within the same scene): Ox King/Wukong before, during, and after the Journey to the West (according to Black Myth). Also confusing because Ox King's immortal and doesn't actually die, so the severed head is misleading.
Ox King is written like this tragic character who continuously makes the wrong choice and suffers for it.
BEFORE the journey, Wukong and Ox King were best-bro "demons" on the non-righteous side. Think of them like extremist libertarians who embrace their vices and have an attitude like "As demons, we gotta stick together, and if nobody will give us respect anyways, we'll do whatever we please and take it for ourselves". It sounds like in this version of the story, Ox King assists Wukong in his FIRST temper tantrum against the heavens. While Wukong was punished with the journey, apparently Ox King was punished by being forced into conceiving Red Boy.
DURING the journey, the protagonists fight/defeat Red Boy, resulting in him becoming a servant of the celestial court. Ox King and Princess Iron Fan (married, with tons of family drama due to Ox King sleeping around) resent them for it and refuse to let them borrow her iron fan, which they need to cross a mountain that's on fire. Due to this drama, they engage in escalating deceptions involving tricking them with fake fans and using transformations to pose as Bull King/Bajie and trick the other party into giving the fan. Wukong ends up taking it by force, and Bajie kills his concubine Fox guai, so they end on very bad terms. Tension between Wukong and Ox King stems from Wukong flipping to the righteous side over the course of the Journey, which feels like a betrayal to him. The scene with the severed head is either how the group (with help from the heavens) defeated the Ox King to take the fan, or a tantrum he throws after that, which gets him subdued.
AFTER the journey, it appears that Ox King either took Wukong's advice to heart and became a servant to the heavens, and instead of assisting Wukong in his SECOND temper tantrum, instead assists in taking him down (along with the previous chapter bosses, who are each rewarded with Wukong's five senses). But as Wukong tells him in his (sort of?) dying breath, as a Yaoguai, they'll always consider them criminals no matter what they do for them (furthering Ox King's tragic existence).
This was also the main theme of Chapter 2's animated sequence, and why Bajie shows no remorse in killing the concubine (even though initially, Bajie could be considered a Yaoguai as well, since he's on the righteous side when tasked with the Journey, he treats Yaoguais he encounters like a disposable evil not worth considering).
Edit: There's a famous Chinese idiom that goes something like "When you're a child, you're Wukong, an undisciplined/uncaring ball of reckless energy that thinks nothing can stop you, when you're a teenager, you become Bazie, an escapist slave to your impulses, distractions, and desires, then when you grow up and start a family, you become Ox King, a defeated shell of a person living in fear/indecision, worrying about every little outcome and making the wrong choices."
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Rodgerwilco
Entertainment boards w/ some Hockey mixed in.
- Feb 6, 2014
- 7,794
- 7,131
Excellent breakdowns as always, my friend. Will certainly be revisiting these after I finish chapters 4 and 5. I'm about halfway through Chapter 4 right now. Been trying to take the game slowly and not blow through it too quickly.
Jovavic
Concept of a Plan
I'm into chapter 3, still having a blast. Is there a way to build a dodge heavy character like the Destinied One in Elden Ring? Might give that game a shot again if I don't have to block or parry, I love not having to worry about that, just roll out of the way. The bosses haven't been too hard, I die at most five times before I reach a white knuckled conclusion with no gourd left when I win.
Shareefruck
Registered User
Chapter 6 Context:
(could be wrong about interpretations since it's a lot of new material specific to the game)
First thing's first. This is the opening theme of the '86 TV show. The game's soundtrack pays tribute to it over and over, and the hype is palpable every time (pretty shocked it holds up):
Boat scene:
Old monkey recounts Wukong's origins, particularly the crimes/corruption he's defined by (and was punished for with the Journey), implying he's no different from the corrupted demons encountered (a fair reading of the source material-- those parallels are intended). The point of the OG story was originally that he learned these lessons along the journey via these encounters and became a better monkey for it, but it looks like Black Myth undoes/undermines that.
Implications Black Myth added:
Since some of Wukong's mischievous traits are still present by journey's end, and actual enlightenment is not easy, old monkey seems to suggest "f*** him, he shouldn't be missed, despite some personal growth. Better to reincarnate him so that he can ACTUALLY be better and learn from past Wukong's mistakes."
Bad ending: Wukong/the Destined One gets reincarnated with the circlet around his head, still under control of the Celestial forces, back in the stone where Wukong was born.
Good ending: Wukong/the Destined One decides not to submit to the circlet (since the gods will never trust him) and walks his own path of freedom. (maybe this means you're not actually supposed to agree with the Old Monkey's rhetoric, because he's on the side of control?)
So basically, they do give a reason for undermining the point of the original, which was my initial concern, I'm just still not sure it's a very satisfying or elegant reason. In particular, if you're meant to take the old monkey's words at face value, that's kind of a f***ed up message, if you ask me.
A controversial choice/misconception, at least to purists):
Old monkey alludes to Wukong's love interest, but that's BS. Not only does he have no love interest in the OG story, it fundamentally goes against his character. Wukong could almost be viewed as a representation of the reckless, untamed, inconsiderate energy of an undisciplined child, and should ideally be portrayed as borderline asexual. The recurring dynamic is that Bajie is consumed by lust/perversions/romantic obsessions while Wukong's just like "F*** that noise, let's just beat it over the head and kill it instead."
However, certain very loose adaptations take liberties and turn a female shape-shifting skeleton demon they encounter into a love interest, because of course the lead has to have one, to the dismay of people who actually care about the subtext. For a campy adaptation, who cares, but Black Myth choosing to treat that as canon is a pretty odd/lame (albeit minor) choice.
Fun fact: One example of this is a comedy that stars Stephen Chow, the Kung Fu Hustle guy. The dev's probable love for that comedy likely influenced this choice.
Animation context:
Aside from the final shot, the animation basically tells the entire story up to this point in reverse chronological order.
The events in normal order:
1. An insulted pre-Journey Wukong decides to crash the celestial palace.
2. Wukong fights the celestial forces, including Erlang
3. Buddha himself (heaven's last resort) challenges him to fly out of the palm of his hand. Wukong flies to the ends of the universe to pee on a pillar and write his name on it as proof. Buddha reveals that the pillars were his fingers all along (because he IS the universe), then traps him under "five-finger mountain" for 500 years as punishment.
4. Monk Tang meets him and breaks the seal to start the journey.
5. Bajie (in boar form) fights the other bandit/sea monster protagonist, which results in the final party of the Journey being formed.
6. The shot of the white spirit mockingly licking a meditating Wukong is the skeleton demon arc (w/ the retconned love interest). The premise is that she sows turmoil within the group by repeatedly transforming into misfortuned commoners to deceive them (thus the crying woman statue in the boat ride), which Wukong sees through and tries to solve by murdering them each time, which disappoints Monk Tang (who buys into the deception and thinks Wukong is just out of control).
7. As a result of 6, Monk Tang uses the circlet to discipline Wukong with headaches.
8. Various villain arcs.
9. Completes the journey and becomes "Victorious Fighting Buddha".
10. After the journey, Celestial court still mistrusts him and defeats him (game opening).
The final scene is of the Destined One, understanding the full story now (learned lessons and everything, no longer shackled by the circlet) and becoming the new Wukong.
For reference:
(could be wrong about interpretations since it's a lot of new material specific to the game)
First thing's first. This is the opening theme of the '86 TV show. The game's soundtrack pays tribute to it over and over, and the hype is palpable every time (pretty shocked it holds up):
Boat scene:
Old monkey recounts Wukong's origins, particularly the crimes/corruption he's defined by (and was punished for with the Journey), implying he's no different from the corrupted demons encountered (a fair reading of the source material-- those parallels are intended). The point of the OG story was originally that he learned these lessons along the journey via these encounters and became a better monkey for it, but it looks like Black Myth undoes/undermines that.
Implications Black Myth added:
Since some of Wukong's mischievous traits are still present by journey's end, and actual enlightenment is not easy, old monkey seems to suggest "f*** him, he shouldn't be missed, despite some personal growth. Better to reincarnate him so that he can ACTUALLY be better and learn from past Wukong's mistakes."
Bad ending: Wukong/the Destined One gets reincarnated with the circlet around his head, still under control of the Celestial forces, back in the stone where Wukong was born.
Good ending: Wukong/the Destined One decides not to submit to the circlet (since the gods will never trust him) and walks his own path of freedom. (maybe this means you're not actually supposed to agree with the Old Monkey's rhetoric, because he's on the side of control?)
So basically, they do give a reason for undermining the point of the original, which was my initial concern, I'm just still not sure it's a very satisfying or elegant reason. In particular, if you're meant to take the old monkey's words at face value, that's kind of a f***ed up message, if you ask me.
A controversial choice/misconception, at least to purists):
Old monkey alludes to Wukong's love interest, but that's BS. Not only does he have no love interest in the OG story, it fundamentally goes against his character. Wukong could almost be viewed as a representation of the reckless, untamed, inconsiderate energy of an undisciplined child, and should ideally be portrayed as borderline asexual. The recurring dynamic is that Bajie is consumed by lust/perversions/romantic obsessions while Wukong's just like "F*** that noise, let's just beat it over the head and kill it instead."
However, certain very loose adaptations take liberties and turn a female shape-shifting skeleton demon they encounter into a love interest, because of course the lead has to have one, to the dismay of people who actually care about the subtext. For a campy adaptation, who cares, but Black Myth choosing to treat that as canon is a pretty odd/lame (albeit minor) choice.
Fun fact: One example of this is a comedy that stars Stephen Chow, the Kung Fu Hustle guy. The dev's probable love for that comedy likely influenced this choice.
Animation context:
Aside from the final shot, the animation basically tells the entire story up to this point in reverse chronological order.
The events in normal order:
1. An insulted pre-Journey Wukong decides to crash the celestial palace.
2. Wukong fights the celestial forces, including Erlang
3. Buddha himself (heaven's last resort) challenges him to fly out of the palm of his hand. Wukong flies to the ends of the universe to pee on a pillar and write his name on it as proof. Buddha reveals that the pillars were his fingers all along (because he IS the universe), then traps him under "five-finger mountain" for 500 years as punishment.
4. Monk Tang meets him and breaks the seal to start the journey.
5. Bajie (in boar form) fights the other bandit/sea monster protagonist, which results in the final party of the Journey being formed.
6. The shot of the white spirit mockingly licking a meditating Wukong is the skeleton demon arc (w/ the retconned love interest). The premise is that she sows turmoil within the group by repeatedly transforming into misfortuned commoners to deceive them (thus the crying woman statue in the boat ride), which Wukong sees through and tries to solve by murdering them each time, which disappoints Monk Tang (who buys into the deception and thinks Wukong is just out of control).
7. As a result of 6, Monk Tang uses the circlet to discipline Wukong with headaches.
8. Various villain arcs.
9. Completes the journey and becomes "Victorious Fighting Buddha".
10. After the journey, Celestial court still mistrusts him and defeats him (game opening).
The final scene is of the Destined One, understanding the full story now (learned lessons and everything, no longer shackled by the circlet) and becoming the new Wukong.
For reference:
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Shareefruck
Registered User
Jovavic
Concept of a Plan
I'm at the end of chapter 4. As someone who isn't good at From games, this game is right up my alley. I'm sure From fans could blow through it but it's damn near perfect for me in difficulty. After a rather linear Chapter 1, each chapter after has a bunch of "off the beaten path" areas and I think not having a map was a good call by the developers.
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