Bill Ranford's mid-90s reputation

[Johnny Engine]

Piggybacking off a post that @mrhockey193195 made in the Hasek thread, what was the deal with (what I perceived to be) Bill Ranford's rarefied reputation among goaltenders in the mid 90s?

He had his Conn Smythe and Canada Cup in 1991, and by the time I started paying attention to hockey (around 1993) the Oilers were in the dumps and his numbers went with them. It's understandable that his reputation would still have been intact at that point, but I distinctly remember hearing him talked about as a lights-out top tier goaltender in books and magazines as late as 1996, even 1997. Doesn't that seem like a long time to coast on a a couple of big-game accomplishments? Was this a situation where his game and technique remained visibly solid with little in the way of positive results? Was it indicative of some kind of moralistic stand against the butterfly among old guard media? Anyone have some specific memories on this?

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[Zenos]

I can't add too much to the subject, but I believe a lot of this was due to the classic good player on a bad team, argument. On many nights, Ranford was the only good thing appearing in an oilers sweater (besides the performances of young Doug Weight and Jason Arnott). Sometimes those kind of players just get overrated. Maybe Schneider on the Devils or Luongo on the Panthers (his first go around) are more contemporary comparables?

The difference being of course, that Ranford did have that resume/pedigree as well. The guy basically won his generation's version of "Tripple Gold", plus the individual awards to go with it: a Conn Smythe, a Canada Cup MVP, and an IHWC top goaltender award (1994). Any way you split it, that's a pretty remarkable haul. Considering how important reputation is in hockey, I'm not entirely surprised Ranford was still well-regarded 3/4 years later.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Bill Ranford was an "appropriate" goalie, easily entering the system of various teams, capable of excellent periods, but not a goalie who defined a system or style. Solid career.

 

[Staniowski]

Piggybacking off a post that @mrhockey193195 made in the Hasek thread, what was the deal with (what I perceived to be) Bill Ranford's rarefied reputation among goaltenders in the mid 90s?

He had his Conn Smythe and Canada Cup in 1991, and by the time I started paying attention to hockey (around 1993) the Oilers were in the dumps and his numbers went with them. It's understandable that his reputation would still have been intact at that point, but I distinctly remember hearing him talked about as a lights-out top tier goaltender in books and magazines as late as 1996, even 1997. Doesn't that seem like a long time to coast on a a couple of big-game accomplishments? Was this a situation where his game and technique remained visibly solid with little in the way of positive results? Was it indicative of some kind of moralistic stand against the butterfly among old guard media? Anyone have some specific memories on this?

Ranford was indeed very highly regarded in the mid-'90s. Don't forget, he was one of the 3 goalies - along with Joseph and Brodeur - on Team Canada at the '96 World Cup, and was a standout at World Championships. He also was a workhorse for the Oilers, he must've played more games than just about any other goalie during this period (and was well-known for this).

I think Ranford was just as good in the mid-'90s as he ever was.

You didn't directly say why you think he wasn't as good in the mid-'90s as he was in the early '90s, but I assume you are referring to his numbers (save percentage, etc.). The answer is, the Oilers were a bad team. A great goaltender playing on a terrible team is very likely going to have a bad save percentage. Save percentage is not a goaltending statistic. You cannot evaluate goaltending quality using save percentage.

 

[Michael Farkas]

This is not in response to any one post: Ranford is Matt Murray...?

 

[Canadiens1958]

This is not in response to any one post: Ranford is Matt Murray...?

Understand the analogy. Let's see how Murray's career evolves.

 

[ShelbyZ]

I remember going back and looking for some quotes from the lead up and aftermath of Bryan Murray's terrible Bob Essensa trade in Detroit. Bill Ranford was a frequent topic there, where he was apparently at the top of the Red Wings list of goalie trade targets (along with guys like Fuhr, Vernon, Essensa and Vanbiesbrouck). While pointing to his sub .9 SV% and well over 3 GAA, he would be called on of the best in the game in some articles.

I think it was a combination of winning the Conn Smythe and playing on a down trending Oilers team while having some pretty decent showings in international play for Canada.

He was valuable enough in 1996 for the Bruins to pay a pretty steep price for him and immediately hand him a 4 year extension with a decent raise. When that didn't work out, he was still coveted enough to get a shot at the starting job in Washington (in exchange for the most recent Vezina winner at the time) and then Tampa before he went to the Red Wings as a playoff insurance back up with Tampa agreeing to buy out the last year of the contract the Bruins gave him. IIRC, he was seen as done in Tampa, then came to Detroit and almost became a playoff hero filling in for Osgood before he got absolutely lit up by the Avalanche in games 3 and 4.

 

[ShelbyZ]

This is not in response to any one post: Ranford is Matt Murray...?

IMO, a closer recent example would probably be Cam Ward.

 

[CBJ goalie]

Man, was he fun to watch - made some saves look 'over the top', but I soaked it all up.
So acrobatic, just flailed his arms and legs around.

And had small equipment too - lighter weight to throw around.

 

[Bleedred]

This is not in response to any one post: Ranford is Matt Murray...?

I think Ranford was more like Cam Ward, or Cam Ward was pretty much Ranford.

Their careers are pretty similar. Both had a cup and a Conn Smythe. Both had a run to the conference finals after that. Ranford had several other playoff appearances, where he didn't even play the whole series and was a platoon/yo-yo goalie, whereas Ward was only in the playoffs those two times.

And neither had a good season after the age of 27-28.

Ranford's first few years were probably better than Ward's first few years in the league (outside of Ward's 06 playoff run), but Ward's peak years were probably better than Ranford's. Both wound up playing a similar number of games, but Ward played 54 more regular season games than Ranford and 2 years older.

I was just discussing this the other day with Ward announcing his retirement and I came to the conclusion that Ward is Ranford 2.0.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Wardo might be fair too...

In Michael news, TIL that Bill Ranford played for the Red Wings in the '99 playoffs and I had absolutely no recollection of that for some reason...and would have lost a substantial amount of money betting against the idea of that in a bar bet...

 

[ShelbyZ]

Wardo might be fair too...

In Michael news, TIL that Bill Ranford played for the Red Wings in the '99 playoffs and I had absolutely recollection of that for some reason...and would have lost a substantial amount of money betting against the idea of that in a bar bet...

I guess outside of Detroit, it was pretty easy to forget. He came in during Ken Hollands big splurge at the '99 deadline along with Chris Chelios and two other easily forgotten short term rentals in Wendel Clark and Ulf Samuelsson.

IIRC, Ranford's was their last trade that day. He became available when the Wings sent the Lightning Kevin Hodson in the Clark trade. The Lightning wanted to platoon Hodson and Corey Schwab to compete for the starting job the next year (Puppa was still in the picture too, but constantly injured), and wanted Ranford out of that picture. IIRC, they had planned to waive and demote him after acquiring Hodson. Considering that a little over three years earlier Ranford by himself fetched a 23YO Czerkawski, 19YO Sean Brown (the 21st overall pick in the most recent draft at the time) and a 1st rounder in the upcoming draft (ended up #19OA), him going to Detroit for future considerations along with an agreement that the Lightning would buy out the last year of his contract was a huge drop in stock.

Ranford's Red Wings tenure was a wild up and down. He impressed in the regular season enough for the Red Wings to consider re-signing him as a back up since they had already correctly guessed that the Thrashers would take Norm Maracle in the expansion draft. Then in the span of less than a week, he goes from playoff hero holding the Avs to only one goal in two games on their own ice, to a source of blame when he absolutely bombs games 3 and 4, forcing the Wings to go back to an injured Osgood who looked visibly hobbled in games 5 and 6.

 

[quoipourquoi]

I still have the “Ranny 2, Avs 0” newspaper from The Detroit Free Press. He was looking sharp those two games.

 

[ShelbyZ]

IMO, the major difference between Ward and Ranford was that Ward was maybe a bit overrated by his own team, while Ranford was overrated by most of the league and the media.

Ward also had somewhat of a sustained "rebound" later in his career where the Canes would bring in guys that were supposed to eventually push Ward out, and he'd end up taking back the starting role.

Ranford was the exact opposite... Spent the last few years of his career going to teams where he was supposed to be the starting goalie and he would flame out rather quickly... Took the Bruins a little over a year to go in a different direction and trade him in a blockbuster that brought in Jim Carey. Then wasn't much better for the rest of that season in Washington. Was expected to be the starter going forward in Washington, but got hurt in the first game of the season, which allowed Kolzig to get hot and lead the Caps all the way to Cup finals. Ranford actually has a decent season as the back up, so he fetches the Caps 2nd and 3rd round picks from the Lightning so he can take over the starting job from oft injured Darren Puppa. But Ranford was pretty terrible in Tampa.... In the first two months of 98-99, Ranford was 1-7-1, with a .866 SV% and a 4.46GAA. Obviously the Lightning weren't a great team at that point, but during the same time period, Puppa was 5-6-1, .901 and 3.19 having played somewhere around 90 more minutes of hockey.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

i think ranford’s 1990 and 91 rep got a second wind from the 93 (or 94?) world championships where canada won for the first time in forever.

 

[quoipourquoi]

 

[tarheelhockey]

Bill Ranford was an "appropriate" goalie, easily entering the system of various teams, capable of excellent periods, but not a goalie who defined a system or style. Solid career.

Trying to unwind 25 years of memory and 20/20 hindsight, this is the closest to how I viewed Ranford at the time. The kind of goalie who could fill your #1 role, but also leave you glancing around for a chance to upgrade.

Cam Ward is a great comparable.

 

[ShelbyZ]

That's awesome. Makes me wish the NHL had something like the "WWE Network" where you can go back and watch any game/series you want and re-live it.

 

[quoipourquoi]

That's awesome. Makes me wish the NHL had something like the "WWE Network" where you can go back and watch any game/series you want and re-live it.

I know, right? They used to have NHL Vault which had some good stuff, but greater access to classic series in their entirety would be nice to have.

I can always pop-in Disc 7 of my Edmonton Oilers: 10 Greatest Games box-set to get my Bill Ranford fix, but you lose a little bit by not having the full series.

 

[McGarnagle]

All i remember is as a young Bruins fan, after Blaine Lacher and Craig Billington crapped out, they went and traded for Ranford and he was supposed to be the savior to stabilize that goaltending position. Then he went and got destroyed by the defensively-minded Panthers in the playoffs, giving up some horrible goals along the way.

 

[MS]

Ranford was a streaky goalie whose performances generally ranged from below-average to terrible who got absolutely insane mileage out of a couple streaky clutch performances early in his career.

Through the mid-1990s, the prevailing wisdom was 'oh, he's a good goalie stuck on a bad team and that's why his numbers suck'. Then he was traded to actual good teams in Boston and Washington and was exposed as a complete sieve, while the Oilers turned out to be not-that-bad when they got an actual good goalie in Curtis Joseph.

Was a technical mess and a relic from a different era. Total flopper who had a talent for making routine saves look spectacular.

As a sidenote - as teenagers playing hockey (ice or floor) in the 1990s, a common joke was 'pulling a Ranford', which involved flailing around on your back the crease with your legs over your head in an exaggerated kick-save motion while a slow-moving puck approached and missing the puck entirely to allow it to dribble over the goal-line. This was a variation on 'pulling a Vernon' which involved turning a routine glove save into a circus moment by comically windmilling the puck over your head before falling over backward as though you were shot. But at least we had enough respect for Vernon to admit he was good enough to probably make the save. Ranford just sucked.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

'pulling a Ranford', which involved flailing around on your back the crease with your legs over your head in an exaggerated kick-save motion while a slow-moving puck approached and missing the puck entirely to allow it to dribble over the goal-line. This was a variation on 'pulling a Vernon' which involved turning a routine glove save into a circus moment by comically windmilling the puck over your head before falling over backward as though you were shot.

haha we had the essensa: going from butterfly to snow angel to try to cover any loose puck near the crease

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

marc crawford’s calm leadership? such a thing exists?

 

[Asheville]

Lundqvist, Luongo and Bobrovsky would probably trade careers with Ranford. Something to be said for a team sport athlete who steps up when called upon, and goes on to outshine all of his teammates in the process, especially the likes of Gretzky, Messier and Sakic, among others.

 

[VanIslander]

I often thought he was overrated.

He was not as good as Richter or Beezer or Joseph.

Heck, Khabibulin and Hebert were better goalies on worse teams.