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Management Bill Guerin

How is Guerin Doing?

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KaprizovSaveUs said:
This is why you need ELCs and why I'm very in favor of using Rossi (if we trade him) to pickup another solid ELC down the line. Just looking at next year:

  • Kaprizov is going to significantly outperform his deal
  • Boldy's production is worth significantly more than 7M per year
  • Gustavsson assuming no major regression is going to significantly outperform his deal
  • Ek is going to outperform his deal
  • Zuccarello, as hated as he is on this board, will outproduce his contract if he breaks ~45 points
  • If any one of Yurov, Jiricek, Buium are ready to be significant factors they're going to blow their deals out of the water
I think for the most part we're in a really solid postition with the contracts we have. Even Foligno, Hartman, Gaudreau all should be reasonably in line with their cap hits. the only player locked up that is going to hurt us is Trenin. Kaprizov will obviously reset his deal and not be a bargain anymore, but from a team building perspective I generally think doing whatever you have to do to retain 4-5 high level players and then filling the rest of your lineup with reasonable deals and entry level guys is kinda my favorite blueprint for winning a Stanley cup, and I don't think we're in a bad position right now to do just that.
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Zucc isn't hated. Just, he's old. Slow. He shits out turnovers like he's incontinent. And Weebler pumps his junk enough that it makes everyone want to crap on him twice as much.

For what he produces for 4 million at 37 yrs old, he gets crapped on far more than he deserves, but...he makes it easy. So does Weebler.
 
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DANOZ28 said:
i say this is billy's last year unless major success in 26 playoffs.
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Make It Happen.gif
 
KaprizovSaveUs said:
He’s got at least 3 years. He was literally just promoted to the president of hockey operations. For as dissapointing as it is for fans ending up in the same spot each year, these last 4 years of the Parise/Suter deals were always going to be a struggle and he’s largely exceeded all on ice expectations. Did we really think we were going to contend for a Stanley cup playing 20%+ behind?
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No one is safe for three years ever in this business
 
KaprizovSaveUs said:
He’s got at least 3 years. He was literally just promoted to the president of hockey operations. For as dissapointing as it is for fans ending up in the same spot each year, these last 4 years of the Parise/Suter deals were always going to be a struggle and he’s largely exceeded all on ice expectations. Did we really think we were going to contend for a Stanley cup playing 20%+ behind?
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Failing upwards?

It really depends on how things are structured (or restructured) for the team. Hockey ops can range from having almost nothing to do with what the GM does to being the direct supervisor of the GM.
 
Wild11MN said:
No one is safe for three years ever in this business
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Well I guess if he misses the playoffs the next two he’d be gone but I just don’t realistically think that happens. I think he’s got 3 real shots to make a run.
 
Wabit said:
Failing upwards?

It really depends on how things are structured (or restructured) for the team. Hockey ops can range from having almost nothing to do with what the GM does to being the direct supervisor of the GM.
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I’m not privy to what the title changed about his role if anything, but I don’t think Leipold gives him that title if he’s unhappy with his performance.
 
BagHead said:
We're 79 pages in and the facts have changed in the last 4 years. I think you'll be fine. And if you aren't, point the Mods to my post and I'll take the blame for egging you on.
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Haha I was just messing around but I do feel taller when I can stand behind you !
 
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BagHead said:
Easy there, I'm Hartman short, not Rossi short. Don't make me go to Buffalo!
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Tops or Wegmans and Anchor Bar or Duffs? Figure out your positions these 2 things and it'll make your transition to the area much easier.
 
The biggest issue is how much damage is Guerin going to do in free agency. Hand out an eight year contract to Nelson at 5 million?
 
For as much of a crutch the buyouts have been for him, and I know people want to blame Fletcher for that, Guerin owes just about everything he's accomplished to Fletcher for stealing Kaprizov out of the 5th round and Eriksson Ek in the same year. Without Kaprizov, even with the full cap, I doubt Guerin has a better team than he has now.

All that to say, I can't imagine the opinion of Guerin would be as high as it is with some people if not for Fletcher. Not a very efficient or productive GM on his own merits.
 
AKL said:
For as much of a crutch the buyouts have been for him, and I know people want to blame Fletcher for that, Guerin owes just about everything he's accomplished to Fletcher for stealing Kaprizov out of the 5th round and Eriksson Ek in the same year. Without Kaprizov, even with the full cap, I doubt Guerin has a better team than he has now.

All that to say, I can't imagine the opinion of Guerin would be as high as it is with some people if not for Fletcher. Not a very efficient or productive GM on his own merits.
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Imagine if Faber had just been another middling prospect like most the hockey world thought and Gus didn’t blow up to vezina level at times. Guerin completely lucked into any success he’s had and you’re right. Without Kap his failures would be magnified x11nty
 
f7ben said:
Imagine if Faber had just been another middling prospect like most the hockey world thought and Gus didn’t blow up to vezina level at times. Guerin completely lucked into any success he’s had and you’re right. Without Kap his failures would be magnified x11nty
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Faber is really interesting. It was rumored that he really wanted to come to Minnesota via the college UFA route. Which means in terms of the Fiala return, it was basically a wasted value asset. We could have gotten 1st+prospect+Faber. But then people will say well we didn't know he wanted to come here. Okay, fine, if we assume that's true, why would LA let him go, along with a 1st, for Fiala, if they knew he'd be this good? The short answer is they wouldn't have. No one in the industry thought he'd be this good. Guerin certainly wasn't the genius here. He traded a 1st line winger for an asset he thought could be a second pair defenseman, that we ultimately may or may not have been able to get for free, and lucked into him being more than that.

The Gustavsson trade, who knows. Guerin had a distressed asset he wanted to get rid of. Ottawa was looking for a steady starter. Was Guerin the one that identified Gus as being this good? I doubt it, his plan was to start him behind Fleury of all people, the role Talbot didn't want. Maybe he thought Gus could develop more, but probably not as much as quickly as he did.

Admittedly, part of a GM's job is to make smart moves and get lucky, I won't deny that. I think Guerin has made a lot of moves driven purely by his ego, and gotten lucky a couple times.

But even with Faber and Gus, if we give him full marks for those, this is still a bottom ~10 team without Kaprizov. Without Ek. Who is he getting to replace those guys? He's missed on everyone he's supposedly gone after. He overpays guys like Foligno, Middleton and Trenin. When the "cuffs come off" his rumored big target is Brock Nelson.

Never mind that his second best player is also courtesy of Paul Fenton.
 
AKL said:
Faber is really interesting. It was rumored that he really wanted to come to Minnesota via the college UFA route. Which means in terms of the Fiala return, it was basically a wasted value asset. We could have gotten 1st+prospect+Faber. But then people will say well we didn't know he wanted to come here. Okay, fine, if we assume that's true, why would LA let him go, along with a 1st, for Fiala, if they knew he'd be this good? The short answer is they wouldn't have. No one in the industry thought he'd be this good. Guerin certainly wasn't the genius here. He traded a 1st line winger for an asset he thought could be a second pair defenseman, that we ultimately may or may not have been able to get for free, and lucked into him being more than that.

The Gustavsson trade, who knows. Guerin had a distressed asset he wanted to get rid of. Ottawa was looking for a steady starter. Was Guerin the one that identified Gus as being this good? I doubt it, his plan was to start him behind Fleury of all people, the role Talbot didn't want. Maybe he thought Gus could develop more, but probably not as much as quickly as he did.

Admittedly, part of a GM's job is to make smart moves and get lucky, I won't deny that. I think Guerin has made a lot of moves driven purely by his ego, and gotten lucky a couple times.

But even with Faber and Gus, if we give him full marks for those, this is still a bottom ~10 team without Kaprizov. Without Ek. Who is he getting to replace those guys? He's missed on everyone he's supposedly gone after. He overpays guys like Foligno, Middleton and Trenin. When the "cuffs come off" his rumored big target is Brock Nelson.

Never mind that his second best player is also courtesy of Paul Fenton.
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Accurate summation and it’s exceptionally damning when all laid out like that.
 
We didn't "know" how good Faber was going to be when we traded for him, just like we didn't/don't "know" how good Buium is going to be when we drafted him. It's an educated guess. And he wasn't a "middling prospect".

LA let him go because they drafted Brandt Clarke in the top 10, and had a need for a offense driver. That said, it's fully possibly he would've gone back for a 4th year.

It's no different than any GM that takes over for another one. If Kaprizov didn't exist, Fiala would most likely still be here and he would take that spot on the top line. We probably wouldn't be as good and would be drafting higher over the recent years. What that turns into, who knows.
 
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AKL said:
For as much of a crutch the buyouts have been for him, and I know people want to blame Fletcher for that, Guerin owes just about everything he's accomplished to Fletcher for stealing Kaprizov out of the 5th round and Eriksson Ek in the same year. Without Kaprizov, even with the full cap, I doubt Guerin has a better team than he has now.

All that to say, I can't imagine the opinion of Guerin would be as high as it is with some people if not for Fletcher. Not a very efficient or productive GM on his own merits.
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lol
 
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