Management Bill Guerin

[AKL]

Even without Kap they have enough of a team that a rebuild is out of the question unless none of the prospects turn into anything.

Yes that's quite the point. It's always a situation where we're too good to be bad and too bad to be good. The vicious cycle part.

Would consider trading teams.

The more I watch MacKinnon...

 

[f7ben]

This f***ing moron just paid the same money and term to Trenin and Middleton as what it took to land Stamkos. Let that sink in. He has never had a plan other than to gratify his own prehistoric view of how hockey should be played. The league passed him by 25 years ago. I’d personally put the odds of Kap wanting to stay here at 10%. Another 10 years of garbage hockey and abject failure has been secured since the Guerin hiring. Just pitiful

 

[Wasted Talent]

This f***ing moron just paid the same money and term to Trenin and Middleton as what it took to land Stamkos.

Not entirely accurate since the Middleton extension won't kick in until 2025-26.

 

[f7ben]

Not entirely accurate since the Middleton extension won't kick in until 2025-26.

Thank you , point still stands

 

[north21]

TB fans seem to think of stamkos as a power play specialist, we already have one of those at half the price.

 

[north21]

Stamkos 35 to 38 at 8m a year is still a big gamble.

 

[BuiumSaveUs]

I’m very curious how Stamkos looks without Kucherov lol

 

[AKL]

TB fans seem to think of stamkos as a power play specialist, we already have one of those at half the price.

Stamkos 35 to 38 at 8m a year is still a big gamble.

Not to say I would have given him that contract, because it's a little too rich for my taste, but Stamkos still scored 40 goals last year, our PP specialist scored 12 lol

 

[DANOZ28]

if you missed it russo sounded unhappy on kfan yesterday with billy spending his precious cap space on bottom 6ers without subtracting say a johansson or gaudreau. i have to agree with russo.

 

[f7ben]

if you missed it russo sounded unhappy on kfan yesterday with billy spending his precious cap space on bottom 6ers without subtracting say a johansson or gaudreau. i have to agree with russo.

Nobody wants to watch grit when it isn’t accompanied by any skill. This team has a major scoring issue. The best Wild team I’ve ever watched was 21-22. Guerin hated every second of it and dismantled it via moving Fiala asap.

 

[north21]

With the exception of foligno they are all kind of arguably ok. I'm even good with Hartman and Middleton, it is just a lot of money at a lot of guys all at once that don't provide much more than depth.

Not to say I would have given him that contract, because it's a little too rich for my taste, but Stamkos still scored 40 goals last year, our PP specialist scored 12 lol

Highly likely we never had a shot at him anyway, nor the cap space to make it work.

 

[AKL]

Highly likely we never had a shot at him anyway, nor the cap space to make it work.

Sure, you're probably right on both those points, but that's largely beside the point, which was that our PP specialist is half the cost because he's less than half as good as their PP specialist

 

[north21]

He's half in just about every measurement known to man.

 

[57special]

Guerin is the guy who scrimps and saves for years, then spends all of his money on a pimped out Honda Civic.

Trenin at 3 x 2.5M...sure, ok'ish. Each little overpay adds up to money that we will not have in the future when we want to keep, and attract, elite talent. I mean, Trenin had 17 points last year. WTF? Reaves had 15 in only 61 gp when he was with us. Duhaime had 13, and got half the money and half the term of Trenin.

 

[AKL]

Each little overpay adds up to money that we will not have in the future when we want to keep, and attract, elite talent.

I think this is what a lot of people aren't considering when they think each of these deals are "fine"

 

[57special]

I mean, Trenin is the answer to the question that no one was asking.

 

[f7ben]

Why let Duhaime walk and then prioritize what duhaime was good at and pay double to get it back?

 

[Wild11MN]

It's almost like he's trying to build out the bottom of the roster first, which gives the impression that that's the priority. Is the plan to build out the top of the roster with this newfound cap space next year? If it's not, what are we doing here?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Why let Duhaime walk and then prioritize what duhaime was good at and pay double to get it back?

Duhaime sucks on the penalty kill, to be fair.

 

[f7ben]

Duhaime sucks on the penalty kill, to be fair.

That’s true

It's almost like he's trying to build out the bottom of the roster first, which gives the impression that that's the priority. Is the plan to build out the top of the roster with this newfound cap space next year? If it's not, what are we doing here?

There is no cap space , that is where the tantrums are originating from

 

[Bazeek]

I think this is what a lot of people aren't considering when they think each of these deals are "fine"

As someone that hasn't liked them but hasn't been apoplectic either: a lot comes down to which contracts Guerin can and does shed via trade prior to 2025-26.

That's the season where:

• The dead cap mostly goes away
• We have multiple RFA contracts ending. Rossi, Ohgren, Khusnutdinov, Faber, Hunt, Wallstedt. Maybe Yurov?
• Kaprizov will have a year left on his deal, and an extension probably depends on cap space + the overall trajectory of the team.

The gross contracts at that point will be:

• Zuccarello: $4.1m for 1 year [35+ NMC]
• Foligno: $4.0m for 3 years [NMC] (....ugh)
• Hartman: $4.0m for 2 years [NMC]
• Trenin: $3.5m for 3 years [???]
• Gaudreau: $2.1m for 3 years [15-team no-trade list]
• Spurgeon: $7.4m for 2 years [10-team no-trade list]
• Middleton: $4.35m for 4 years [???]

That's ~$30m, 1/3 of the current cap, which is bad. The guys without full NMCs are $17.35m, so that does give some (theoretical) room to work with via trades. And Hartman would probably be easy to move if he was willing to waive.

I think Guerin's setting himself up for failure here, but it's also a lot of variables to juggle over the span of 2-3 years. I'm open to the idea that he won't **** it up... or that it won't ultimately be him making the decisions going into 2025-26. I don't think the above represents an unsolvable situation.

 

[Wabit]

He's half in just about every measurement known to man.

Peeking in the locker rooms again?

 

[AKL]

As someone that hasn't liked them but hasn't been apoplectic either: a lot comes down to which contracts Guerin can and does shed via trade prior to 2025-26.

That's the season where:

• The dead cap mostly goes away
• We have multiple RFA contracts ending. Rossi, Ohgren, Khusnutdinov, Faber, Hunt, Wallstedt. Maybe Yurov?
• Kaprizov will have a year left on his deal, and an extension probably depends on cap space + the overall trajectory of the team.

The gross contracts at that point will be:

• Zuccarello: $4.1m for 1 year [35+ NMC]
• Foligno: $4.0m for 3 years [NMC] (....ugh)
• Hartman: $4.0m for 2 years [NMC]
• Trenin: $3.5m for 3 years [???]
• Gaudreau: $2.1m for 3 years [15-team no-trade list]
• Spurgeon: $7.4m for 2 years [10-team no-trade list]
• Middleton: $4.35m for 4 years [???]

That's ~$30m, 1/3 of the current cap, which is bad. The guys without full NMCs are $17.35m, so that does give some (theoretical) room to work with via trades. And Hartman would probably be easy to move if he was willing to waive.

I think Guerin's setting himself up for failure here, but it's also a lot of variables to juggle over the span of 2-3 years. I'm open to the idea that he won't **** it up... or that it won't ultimately be him making the decisions going into 2025-26. I don't think the above represents an unsolvable situation.

This may all very well be true, but the thing is, in this scenario, you have to trust that Guerin can not only move one or some of these guys, which is the easy part, but you have to trust that he'll choose the right guys to move, which is the part I have zero faith in given his tendencies.

You mentioned moving Hartman, for example? That's quite literally the last guy from that list I would even consider moving.

 

[Wabit]

As someone that hasn't liked them but hasn't been apoplectic either: a lot comes down to which contracts Guerin can and does shed via trade prior to 2025-26.

That's the season where:

• The dead cap mostly goes away
• We have multiple RFA contracts ending. Rossi, Ohgren, Khusnutdinov, Faber, Hunt, Wallstedt. Maybe Yurov?
• Kaprizov will have a year left on his deal, and an extension probably depends on cap space + the overall trajectory of the team.

The gross contracts at that point will be:

• Zuccarello: $4.1m for 1 year [35+ NMC]
• Foligno: $4.0m for 3 years [NMC] (....ugh)
• Hartman: $4.0m for 2 years [NMC]
• Trenin: $3.5m for 3 years [???]
• Gaudreau: $2.1m for 3 years [15-team no-trade list]
• Spurgeon: $7.4m for 2 years [10-team no-trade list]
• Middleton: $4.35m for 4 years [???]

That's ~$30m, 1/3 of the current cap, which is bad. The guys without full NMCs are $17.35m, so that does give some (theoretical) room to work with via trades. And Hartman would probably be easy to move if he was willing to waive.

I think Guerin's setting himself up for failure here, but it's also a lot of variables to juggle over the span of 2-3 years. I'm open to the idea that he won't **** it up... or that it won't ultimately be him making the decisions going into 2025-26. I don't think the above represents an unsolvable situation.

As much as I dislike saying it. Brodin could put be on the gross list if misses another 20 games in a a season.

I think the shorter list would be the yummy? (opposite word of gross) contracts GMBG has on the roster.

 

[AKL]

As much as I dislike saying it. Brodin could put be on the gross list if misses another 20 games in a a season.

I think the shorter list would be the yummy? (opposite word of gross) contracts GMBG has on the roster.

There's no reason Brodin shouldn't be on that list. He'll be 32 at the start of the season and he can't stay healthy for full seasons and he's proven himself to be not as effective when it comes time for the playoffs.