Biggest national team snubs ever?

[JackSlater]

The Canadian team in 1991 could have been significantly better. Canada won, but that was mostly a reflection of how bad every other team was. The Soviets were in disarray and didn't send the best players while Czechoslovakia was just beginning to come out of the valley it had been in for most of the 1980s and USA, Sweden and Finland had their strongest ever generations coming up but were still to young to compete in 1991.

 

[ColbyChaos]

For sweden i would say,

2018: Olympics: Pettersson
2016 world cup: Klingberg (Instead, Kronwall, Hjalmarsson)
2014: Olympics: Hedman (Instead, Murray, Tallinder etc)
2006: Olympics: M Nylander (Instead, Hannula etc)

Kronwall easily should have been out but in what world was Hammer a bad selection? Hjalmarsson was one of the best shutdown dmen in the league these past few years

 

[babylonzoo]

Hull being primarily from Canada is probably his biggest motivation for wanting to play for Canada at first. I agree that Trottier and Esposito are different, similar to (though politically different from) Stastny playing for Canada in 1984. Those types of switches shouldn't be allowed, and at this point I don't think that they would be under IIHF rules. That was the Canada Cup though so the nationality rules were probably a bit loose. Hull's situation isn't even the same as with guys like Deadmarsh or Pominville who had barely any American connection and still played for USA. Hull's decision is at least defensible since he was at least partially raised there.

It does give a look tvof discussion topic. He had the right to do so. Point is, he wanted to play for Canada, didn't get the invite (snub?) and rest is history.

 

[DDRhockey]

The Canadian team in 1991 could have been significantly better. Canada won, but that was mostly a reflection of how bad every other team was. The Soviets were in disarray and didn't send the best players while Czechoslovakia was just beginning to come out of the valley it had been in for most of the 1980s and USA, Sweden and Finland had their strongest ever generations coming up but were still to young to compete in 1991.

Sweden won whc 1991

 

[JackSlater]

Sweden won whc 1991

Canada Cup.

 

[kanucks25]

Kunitz, didn't they leave way better players at home?

They left Giroux off of that team which is questionable, but I understand why they did it.

They did it because apparently Crosby doesn't know how to play with anyone else, which is a complete joke.

Giroux is/was a much better player and that team needed RWs, which Giroux can play.

Obviously they won so it didn't hurt but there is no doubt they'd be a better team with Giroux instead of Kunitz.

 

[Jtown]

if you can find me a national team that left off a player who was in the midst of a finalist hart trophy year I will be shocked.

 

[JackSlater]

if you can find me a national team that left off a player who was in the midst of a finalist hart trophy year I will be shocked.

Claude Giroux in 2014. Jose Theodore in 2002.

 

[Jtown]

Claude Giroux in 2014. Jose Theodore in 2002.

well then there you go.

 

[Big Phil]

I have some different thoughts on Hull. I agree that he had the right to pick, and I respect that he never switched. I detest when players switch. He mostly grew up in Canada (spent his father's off season in Ontario, moved to Winnipeg at eight, then moved to Vancouver with his mother and calls it his hometown) but he at least does have a legitimate connection to USA. I consider him mostly a Canadian player and I would certainly have preferred that he play for Canada (due to him primarily growing up in Canada, not because of how great he became) but even then I must agree that he probably made the right decision for himself professionally. There are far more egregious cases than Hull's in international hockey. In international hockey I would boo Hull but outside of that context he shouldn't be booed for his decision or called something stupid like a traitor.

Hull is at least better than Deadmarsh. With Deadmarsh he was born and raised in Canada and played his junior hockey in Canada (although it was technically Portland but it was the CHL none the less). He admits to cheering for Canada in the 1991 Canada Cup vs. USA. Two years later when Canada doesn't pick him for their WJC team and he plays for Team USA three times. Then USA for the World Cup in 1996. And then two U.S. Olympic teams. All because he had an American mother. That's it. None of that matters, Deadmarsh never makes any team Canada I can think of to begin with but how do you play against your country like that? I can't imagine it.

As for Hull, he is cut from the 1986 World Championship team for Canada. Then decides to play for Team USA that same tourney and the rest is history. Hull makes several team Canadas in his career. 1991 for sure. 1996 for sure where he was literally the difference in the Americans winning. 1998 as well. Not so sure about 2002 on Team Canada. I doubt it.

But I think a lot changes in Hull's career, for starters he wins more on Canada.

 

[Big Phil]

if you can find me a national team that left off a player who was in the midst of a finalist hart trophy year I will be shocked.

Someone mentioned Giroux in 2014 and Theodore in 2002 already. Are there any others? Not quite, but Savard finished 5th in Hart voting in 1988, right after the 1987 Canada Cup and it was no secret the sort of player he was by then, Sather just never liked him, and I would assume neither did Keenan.

Bobby Hull finished 7th in Hart voting (that low?) in 1972 and scored 50 goals.

Martin St. Louis was the reigning Art Ross winner when he wasn't initially invited in 2014

That's all I can think of right now

 

[JackSlater]

Hull is at least better than Deadmarsh. With Deadmarsh he was born and raised in Canada and played his junior hockey in Canada (although it was technically Portland but it was the CHL none the less). He admits to cheering for Canada in the 1991 Canada Cup vs. USA. Two years later when Canada doesn't pick him for their WJC team and he plays for Team USA three times. Then USA for the World Cup in 1996. And then two U.S. Olympic teams. All because he had an American mother. That's it. None of that matters, Deadmarsh never makes any team Canada I can think of to begin with but how do you play against your country like that? I can't imagine it.

As for Hull, he is cut from the 1986 World Championship team for Canada. Then decides to play for Team USA that same tourney and the rest is history. Hull makes several team Canadas in his career. 1991 for sure. 1996 for sure where he was literally the difference in the Americans winning. 1998 as well. Not so sure about 2002 on Team Canada. I doubt it.

But I think a lot changes in Hull's career, for starters he wins more on Canada.

I don't have a lot of respect for Deadmarsh's decisions, for the reasons you listed. Pominville is very similar to Deadmarsh, as he was only eligible to play for USA because of his mother's citizenship. He was so far removed from USA that he wasn't even aware that he was eligible until he was in his 20s. This guys are pure mercenaries, but Hull is somewhat different as he actually did live in USA for years growing up. I do think that Deadmarsh would have made team Canada at the 1995 WJC, where somewhat coincidentally he was the highest scoring player that wasn't on team Canada. As for Hull and his career, he himself said that he gained a lot of confidence from that USA selection and called it almost a turning point in his career. He probably still ends up great if he waits for Canada (and Canada almost certainly does win the 1996 World Cup) but who knows.

 

[Big Phil]

I don't have a lot of respect for Deadmarsh's decisions, for the reasons you listed. Pominville is very similar to Deadmarsh, as he was only eligible to play for USA because of his mother's citizenship. He was so far removed from USA that he wasn't even aware that he was eligible until he was in his 20s. This guys are pure mercenaries, but Hull is somewhat different as he actually did live in USA for years growing up. I do think that Deadmarsh would have made team Canada at the 1995 WJC, where somewhat coincidentally he was the highest scoring player that wasn't on team Canada. As for Hull and his career, he himself said that he gained a lot of confidence from that USA selection and called it almost a turning point in his career. He probably still ends up great if he waits for Canada (and Canada almost certainly does win the 1996 World Cup) but who knows.

Others I didn't care for, and yeah even some Canadian ones:

Trottier on Team USA in 1984. Born and raised in Canada, PLAYED for Canada three years earlier. Decides to play on team USA in a country he hadn't even lived in for a decade yet.

Tony Esposito in 1981. Same reasons. They got dual citizenship by playing on an American team. But you learned the game - and all the money that came with it - in Canada. Plus Esposito played for Canada as well.

Petr Nedved on the 1994 Olympics. He had to have barely gotten his Canadian citizenship by then. But again, why? If he was drafted by Pittsburgh and not Vancouver then he'd have applied for American citizenship. He's a Czech, play for them.

Olaf Kolzig. He might be known for being born in South Africa but he was raised in Canada. Was it something along the lines of Robyn Regehr (born in Brazil because his father was a missionary but raised in Canada) because he was Canadian tried and true. But he plays in Germany? Again this was based on his mother's citizenship or something like that? I get it, Kolzig knows he probably isn't cracking Canada, but so what?

Jason Pominville.............for the reasons you mentioned. Another Deadmarsh. Never good enough to play for Canada anyway, but the guy still left a bad taste in your mouth.

 

[Big Phil]

What do people think about Peter Stastny in 1984? Personally, I didn't like it. There were lots of other options besides him. Trottier turned Canada down but we still had Savard (who was cut) and Hawerchuk if they wanted to fill a scorer's void. I loved Stastny, but can you imagine how history would view it if it were him, not Bossy, that scored that overtime winner against the Soviets? I wouldn't have liked it. In a way it was good he was just a 4th liner on there with little impact. But I always thought Canada is better than this. We don't need imports to win. We just need homegrown talent.

Stastny is one of the ones I "get" though. I understand where he was coming from wanting to play for Canada. He left a dictatorship basically to come to Canada and landed in Quebec. No doubt he was grateful for what Canada gave him. Heck, the guy is even fluent in French to this day I believe. However, the Team Canada brass shouldn't have chosen him (or his brother Anton who got cut).

 

[Rebels57]

Claude Giroux being left off in 2014 despite playing at a level that saw him end the season as a Hart Trophy Finalist, just so they could bring Crosby's BFF Kunitz.

Not the biggest of all-time i'm sure, but still ridiculous.

 

[Jablkon]

What do people think about Peter Stastny in 1984? Personally, I didn't like it. There were lots of other options besides him. Trottier turned Canada down but we still had Savard (who was cut) and Hawerchuk if they wanted to fill a scorer's void. I loved Stastny, but can you imagine how history would view it if it were him, not Bossy, that scored that overtime winner against the Soviets? I wouldn't have liked it. In a way it was good he was just a 4th liner on there with little impact. But I always thought Canada is better than this. We don't need imports to win. We just need homegrown talent.

Stastny is one of the ones I "get" though. I understand where he was coming from wanting to play for Canada. He left a dictatorship basically to come to Canada and landed in Quebec. No doubt he was grateful for what Canada gave him. Heck, the guy is even fluent in French to this day I believe. However, the Team Canada brass shouldn't have chosen him (or his brother Anton who got cut).

I would also reckon he was greatful. Only strange thing is that he is diehard Slovak who did everything possible to represent his country in 1994. Its bit of strange that such patriot chose to play for Canada. But I guess he didnt expect anything would change in 1981 and simply lived with the feeling he never come back till the end of his life and definetely didnt expect the split. Dont know what that means from canadian perspective though

 

[JackSlater]

Others I didn't care for, and yeah even some Canadian ones:

Trottier on Team USA in 1984. Born and raised in Canada, PLAYED for Canada three years earlier. Decides to play on team USA in a country he hadn't even lived in for a decade yet.

Tony Esposito in 1981. Same reasons. They got dual citizenship by playing on an American team. But you learned the game - and all the money that came with it - in Canada. Plus Esposito played for Canada as well.

Petr Nedved on the 1994 Olympics. He had to have barely gotten his Canadian citizenship by then. But again, why? If he was drafted by Pittsburgh and not Vancouver then he'd have applied for American citizenship. He's a Czech, play for them.

Olaf Kolzig. He might be known for being born in South Africa but he was raised in Canada. Was it something along the lines of Robyn Regehr (born in Brazil because his father was a missionary but raised in Canada) because he was Canadian tried and true. But he plays in Germany? Again this was based on his mother's citizenship or something like that? I get it, Kolzig knows he probably isn't cracking Canada, but so what?

Jason Pominville.............for the reasons you mentioned. Another Deadmarsh. Never good enough to play for Canada anyway, but the guy still left a bad taste in your mouth.

Most of those shouldn't have been allowed and under current rules probably wouldn't be. This is now a rampant issue between Canada and USA at least, especially at the junior level. Canada's backup goaltender at the WJC this year, born and raised in Canada but possessing American citizenship through a parent, said that he would go with whichever country gave him a better opportunity. I think that the rules actually prohibited him from playing for USA (rightfully) but it still leaves a bad taste in the mouth. This kind of thing seems to happen yearly going both ways.

What do people think about Peter Stastny in 1984? Personally, I didn't like it. There were lots of other options besides him. Trottier turned Canada down but we still had Savard (who was cut) and Hawerchuk if they wanted to fill a scorer's void. I loved Stastny, but can you imagine how history would view it if it were him, not Bossy, that scored that overtime winner against the Soviets? I wouldn't have liked it. In a way it was good he was just a 4th liner on there with little impact. But I always thought Canada is better than this. We don't need imports to win. We just need homegrown talent.

Stastny is one of the ones I "get" though. I understand where he was coming from wanting to play for Canada. He left a dictatorship basically to come to Canada and landed in Quebec. No doubt he was grateful for what Canada gave him. Heck, the guy is even fluent in French to this day I believe. However, the Team Canada brass shouldn't have chosen him (or his brother Anton who got cut).

Canada shouldn't have picked Stastny. His situation was pretty unique as it was based on real world politics and he couldn't have played for his actual home country, but he was a product of Czechoslovakian hockey and shouldn't have represented Canadian hockey.

 

[Big Phil]

Claude Giroux being left off in 2014 despite playing at a level that saw him end the season as a Hart Trophy Finalist, just so they could bring Crosby's BFF Kunitz.

Not the biggest of all-time i'm sure, but still ridiculous.

Giroux is one of those guys I don't get. How can a guy who led the NHL in points over a 6 year span (look it up, I'm not kidding) from 2010 to 2016 be so underrated? He gets left off in 2014 and even in 2016 he's on the team, but played one game despite always doing well in the World Championships. I am no Flyers fan, but I am glad to see him doing well this year and if he isn't a Hart finalist this year then who is?

Even from a PPG standpoint, only Crosby, Malkin, Kane and Stamkos have a better PPG than him between 2010-'16 so it isn't as if he's only there by default.

 

[Big Phil]

Canada shouldn't have picked Stastny. His situation was pretty unique as it was based on real world politics and he couldn't have played for his actual home country, but he was a product of Czechoslovakian hockey and shouldn't have represented Canadian hockey.

I agree.

 

[Howie Hodge]

Hull is at least better than Deadmarsh. With Deadmarsh he was born and raised in Canada and played his junior hockey in Canada (although it was technically Portland but it was the CHL none the less). He admits to cheering for Canada in the 1991 Canada Cup vs. USA. Two years later when Canada doesn't pick him for their WJC team and he plays for Team USA three times. Then USA for the World Cup in 1996. And then two U.S. Olympic teams. All because he had an American mother. That's it. None of that matters, Deadmarsh never makes any team Canada I can think of to begin with but how do you play against your country like that? I can't imagine it.

As for Hull, he is cut from the 1986 World Championship team for Canada. Then decides to play for Team USA that same tourney and the rest is history. Hull makes several team Canadas in his career. 1991 for sure. 1996 for sure where he was literally the difference in the Americans winning. 1998 as well. Not so sure about 2002 on Team Canada. I doubt it.

But I think a lot changes in Hull's career, for starters he wins more on Canada.

Reminds me of Football players in England years ago, who didn't get selected to play for England, so they found out they had "Irish, Welsh, or Scottish" grandparents, which made them eligible to play for those countries....

 

[JackSlater]

Giroux is one of those guys I don't get. How can a guy who led the NHL in points over a 6 year span (look it up, I'm not kidding) from 2010 to 2016 be so underrated? He gets left off in 2014 and even in 2016 he's on the team, but played one game despite always doing well in the World Championships. I am no Flyers fan, but I am glad to see him doing well this year and if he isn't a Hart finalist this year then who is?

Even from a PPG standpoint, only Crosby, Malkin, Kane and Stamkos have a better PPG than him between 2010-'16 so it isn't as if he's only there by default.

Leaving Giroux off was a mistake. I am guessing that there were a few factors. Giroux hurt his hand in the summer and missed the summer camp and his 2013 season wasn't as strong as his 2012 season or his 2014 season. Canada also historically goes for playmakers at centre and speed/size/goal scoring on the wing, meaning that playmaking wingers (St. Louis most prominently, also Recchi a few times) get cut and playmaking centres (think Francis, Oates, Savard in the past) often get cut. Of course though Giroux has played well for Canada in the past and he actually did have significant wing experience in addition to his experience at centre. Giroux's tremendous season this year as a LW makes the Kunitz selection look even worse. The 2014 team was very well picked overall though.

Reminds me of Football players in England years ago, who didn't get selected to play for England, so they found out they had "Irish, Welsh, or Scottish" grandparents, which made them eligible to play for those countries....

Or the best Canadian soccer player ever, Owen Hargreaves. England's best player at the 2010 World Cup.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Reminds me of Football players in England years ago, who didn't get selected to play for England, so they found out they had "Irish, Welsh, or Scottish" grandparents, which made them eligible to play for those countries....

.....except Hull and Deadmarsh have American mothers and are dual-citizens.

 

[AmericanDream]

.....except Hull and Deadmarsh have American mothers and are dual-citizens.

Tyler Myers, that one still bothers me to this day...

 

[Fixxer]

Jussi Jokinen, who scored 30 goals and 65 points that year, not being selected to the 2010 Finnish Olympic team was pretty ridiculous when guys like Jarkko Ruutu, Ville Peltonen and Jarkko Immonen were in.

I agree but, Ville Peltonen has made it's name for the international hockey. I think ... look at his "awards" on eliteprospects : Ville Peltonen ---- International hockey has that "veteran" first mentality and is "loyal" to it's former participants.. Different hockey, different mentality.

 

[Fixxer]

still to this day my mind explodes thinking about this one....what made it funnier was Connor wasn't good enough for the WJC team, but then invited him to the World Championships in April that year lol!!

They didn't want him to make other junior eligible players look bad. He had to play with men .