Bigger Legacy impact?
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- Apr 27, 2005
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Golden_Jet
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- Sep 21, 2005
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A Smythe for Draisaitl could be the biggest one as it would erase any doubts of McDavid's influence on his numbers and maybe make him the clear #2 of this era. A Smythe for McDavid effectively erases the perceived gap between him and Crosby.
Yeah, I think you have to separate a Smythe for Draisaitl. I think that could be the biggest legacy impact as it will help him get out of McDavid's shadow. But I think it's far less for McDavid. McDavid will still go down as best player of his era regardless. We'll be talking about him 20 years from now and his speed. If he doesn't get a Cup he'll just go down as the best player without one on top of it.
But I think another MacKinnon Hart Trophy will help MacKinnon's legacy the most. Back-to-back Hart's, the first since Ovechkin? There's only been 11 players to do that. The others are Howie Morenz, Eddie Shore, Gordie Howe, Bobby Hull, Stan Mikita, Bobby Orr, Bobby Clarke, Guy Lafleur, Wayne Gretzky, and Dominik Hasek. That's a list of players that elevates anyone's legacy. And when new fans are looking at Wikipedia in 30 years, he's not some one-off, they'll have to make the case that he was the best player even against McDavid since he won the Hart twice in a row during McDavid's prime. Add on the Art Ross and it impacts his legacy the most I think far down the line.
But I think another MacKinnon Hart Trophy will help MacKinnon's legacy the most. Back-to-back Hart's, the first since Ovechkin? There's only been 11 players to do that. The others are Howie Morenz, Eddie Shore, Gordie Howe, Bobby Hull, Stan Mikita, Bobby Orr, Bobby Clarke, Guy Lafleur, Wayne Gretzky, and Dominik Hasek. That's a list of players that elevates anyone's legacy. And when new fans are looking at Wikipedia in 30 years, he's not some one-off, they'll have to make the case that he was the best player even against McDavid since he won the Hart twice in a row during McDavid's prime. Add on the Art Ross and it impacts his legacy the most I think far down the line.
Fatass
Registered User
- Apr 17, 2017
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McDavid needs to lead his club to a Cup to move into the top tier of greatest all time players. For now, he is in the group of great offensive stars with Dionne.
McDavid needs to lead his club to a Cup to move into the top tier of greatest all time players. For now, he is in the group of great offensive stars with Dionne
McDavid needs to lead his club to a Cup to move into the top tier of greatest all time players. For now, he is in the group of great offensive stars with Dionne
McDavid going Cup-less, assuming he sticks with Edmonton, is more of a black mark on the Oilers. Not McDavid. This isn't even the same argument that could be used against (pre-Cup) Ovechkin since Ovechkin did have post-seasons where he didn't look great (relatively to him) and his numbers weren't that impressive.
McDavid just put up 42 points in 25 games in the playoffs. Only two guys named Lemieux and Gretzky have scored more. Is anyone going to be questioning his post-season abilities in 50 years from now? Anyone going to be saying "He just wasn't made for the playoffs." No it's going to be "The McDavid Oilers management are the most inept of all time."
McDavid just put up 42 points in 25 games in the playoffs. Only two guys named Lemieux and Gretzky have scored more. Is anyone going to be questioning his post-season abilities in 50 years from now? Anyone going to be saying "He just wasn't made for the playoffs." No it's going to be "The McDavid Oilers management are the most inept of all time."
- Feb 10, 2010
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We're likely to have well over a thousand games for McDavid when all is said and done. Placing an enormous value on game 7 from one SCF - as if this makes or breaks McDavid's legacy - seems largely arbitrary to me.
Naw, he is knocking on the door of the Top 10 at this point, well above players like Sakic, Yzerman and Trottier.
Perceived by who? I think its pretty widely accepted that McDavid is the better player at this point.
Voight
#winning
Kucherov already has two Art Ross' (that are also two of the highest point totals post lockout) which is more than anyone not named McDavid in the last decade. I don't see how a third would make much of a difference.
3 Art Ross' is quite the accomplishment. Only players with more are Gretzky, Howe, Lemieux, Esposito, Jagr, McDavid, and Mikita. Lafleur and B. Hull both have 3 too. I think a 3rd Ross for Kuch is the 2nd biggest potential accomplishment on this list.
I think the majority would rate Crosby higher all-time than McDavid at this point. You cannot ignore his success during his career and many would place him on the same tier as a player (if not above); he simply had bad luck and timing with injuries. He is starting to become known for his elite longevity ironically enough.
Staniowski
Registered User
#4 or #1 (for Draisaitl specifically).
If Draisaitl were to win the Hart, the Cup, and Conn Smythe (and maybe the Art Ross) this season, that would be big for him.
Of the four players, Draisaitl has the most to gain; he currently has the most question marks for many hockey people. The other three are very secure.
If Draisaitl were to win the Hart, the Cup, and Conn Smythe (and maybe the Art Ross) this season, that would be big for him.
Of the four players, Draisaitl has the most to gain; he currently has the most question marks for many hockey people. The other three are very secure.
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BigBadBruins7708
Registered User
Another trophy year for MacKinnon IMO. Lets him avoid the "1 year spike" reputation.
- McDavid is McDavid, you can argue a Cup cements him but a Smythe run with more points than anyone not named Gretzky or Mario plus breaking Gretzky's assist record makes up for it.
- Kucherov has 2 stellar Ross wins plus 2 Cup runs that should've been Smythe wins
- Draisaitl needs another trophy season as well, but he's lined up for it this year (so far)
Trophy wise MacKinnon is the most needy with "just" a Hart (just being a very relative term)
- McDavid is McDavid, you can argue a Cup cements him but a Smythe run with more points than anyone not named Gretzky or Mario plus breaking Gretzky's assist record makes up for it.
- Kucherov has 2 stellar Ross wins plus 2 Cup runs that should've been Smythe wins
- Draisaitl needs another trophy season as well, but he's lined up for it this year (so far)
Trophy wise MacKinnon is the most needy with "just" a Hart (just being a very relative term)
Im not so sure. I think the consensus I have seen (on this site at least) is that McDavid is tracking well ahead of Crosby was by age 28. Significantly more hardware, better individual seasons, best overall playoff run. I agree they are in the same "tier" of player, but if anything McDavid has separated to be above Crosby.
IWantSakicAsMyGM
Registered User
"...but he never won a Cup" is a permanent black mark on a legacy. And being able to erase the taint is better than writing in another accomplishment.
Agreed, McDavid should be rated above when all is said and done, but there will be a contingent of folks that will not if he doesn't win a cup.
Count me as someone who thinks it's important, but not someone that is going to knock a player way down on an all-time ranking because he doesn't have one. Even if his ranking doesn't really change...it still would be a big thing out there if he never won.
Duke74
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- Jan 13, 2018
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That shouldn't still be the case. While subsequent trophies will help his cause, he should have already cemented himself as a legitimate star after sweeping the awards in 2020.
Sure, there will always be a contingent that values cups above all else. For me it is a very flawed way to judge players in a sport as team based as hockey.
In my mind if one were to rank Crosby above McDavid, then they should also probably rank Messier above Crosby.
Messier wasn't in the same tier of player though. This makes no sense.
But if you are saying that Messier was a winner, then Crosby has that over McDavid. He has won at every he has played.
But Crosby has had the better career which is the point of the OP.
Golden_Jet
Registered User
- Sep 21, 2005
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OP never once mentioned Crosby in the first post and poll options.
Poll has absolutely nothing to do with Crosby.
Im saying that the "winner" argument is a very flawed one in a sport like hockey. But if one is arguing for Crosby over McDavid due to winning, then they should probably argue for Messier over Crosby.
Again, a very flawed way to judge players in the sport of hockey.
Very debatable. Only thing Crosby has done that McDavid hasn't is be on a roster of a SC winning team.
