Edge
Kris King's Ghost
Ironically, Brendl was another one I was lukewarm on and I didn't go out of my way to hide it in my coverage back then.
In 1999, my ideal haul from the first round of that draft would've been Lundmark and Jackman.
Player Discussion Bigger Bust- McIlrath or Jessiman?
- Thread starter SnowblindNYR
- Start date
Ironically, Brendl was another one I was lukewarm on and I didn't go out of my way to hide it in my coverage back then.
In 1999, my ideal haul from the first round of that draft would've been Lundmark and Jackman.
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
On one hand, I miss the old draft days where we had to really put in work to analyze a player (now, you can find videos, live streams, tons of scouting reports, etc.). However, on the other hand, I'm glad to be wrong a lot less than I was in the past.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
On one hand, I miss the old draft days where we had to really put in work to analyze a player (now, you can find videos, live streams, tons of scouting reports, etc.). However, on the other hand, I'm glad to be wrong a lot less than I was in the past.
It's a double-edged sword.
On the one hand, it's nice to have conversations based in some realm of reality with more people.
On the other hand, the ability to form an opinion doesn't necessarily signify a deeper understanding of an issue.
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
Analytics, to me, also doesn't translate to prospect development. So that's going to be a big battle in the future with guys that don't want to watch kids play and mainly rely on analytics.
One Winged Angel
You Can't Escape
His problem was that he showed up to training camp one year completely over weight. 20-25 lbs, if I remember correctly. He had no drive or desire to make it in the NHL, but he damn sure had the talent.
Machinehead
Fox Mafia Consigliere
One Winged Angel
You Can't Escape
It's been a battle for about 5-6 years. Look at how many clowns on here will look at someone's analyticals when said player is not in their market, but they'll try to act like they know what that player is all about.
Like that Juxtaposer moron on the Sharks board who trolls every Ranger thread on the trade boards trying to act like she knows what she's talking about when it comes to the Rangers, when anyone who actually watches the team knows that she doesn't know her ass from a hole in the ground.
Hawkey Talk Man is another just like her. I've had center ice every year since the inception of the package about 16 years ago and access to out of market games before that going back to 1998. Even with the package, you know how hard it is to watch another team aside from your own on even a semi-regular basis, nevermind watching some random player who plays on a team that you don't watch regularly?
These people think they're fooling everyone, they're not.
One Winged Angel
You Can't Escape
As for the post itself, it's easily Jessiman.
The Rangers had a decent pick in a year where the draft was deep and they couldn't afford to take a swing like that in the first round, due to the sheer lack of depth in the farm system. Blackburn was the best prospect they had in quite some time, he was done at that point after the accident. Brendl was traded for Lindros after showing that he had zero drive. The organization was on it's last legs with Lundmark, who they had been waiting to see something from, but he never did anything, then Peca injured him in a game with a knee-on-knee hit (how ironic, the guy who cried bloody friggin murder about Darcy Tucker). Tyutin was the team's crown jewel at that point. They had traded the 2002 1st rounder for Pavel Bure (ended up being Petr Taticek - bust). They didn't know what they had in Prucha, Lundqvist was just starting to make a name for himself and wasn't that top goaltending prospect yet and after that, they didn't have anything.
It was a terrible decision and there were so many other players enjoying great success playing against tougher competition (the ECAC was not nearly what it is today) and these players were safer and better picks. My aunt was high up in MSG at the time and I had also played hockey with someone who was even higher up than her. They both said that there was a rumored deal that almost went through earlier on in that season that would have sent Jarome Iginla and Calgary's 2003 first rounder to the Rangers.
The Rangers had a decent pick in a year where the draft was deep and they couldn't afford to take a swing like that in the first round, due to the sheer lack of depth in the farm system. Blackburn was the best prospect they had in quite some time, he was done at that point after the accident. Brendl was traded for Lindros after showing that he had zero drive. The organization was on it's last legs with Lundmark, who they had been waiting to see something from, but he never did anything, then Peca injured him in a game with a knee-on-knee hit (how ironic, the guy who cried bloody friggin murder about Darcy Tucker). Tyutin was the team's crown jewel at that point. They had traded the 2002 1st rounder for Pavel Bure (ended up being Petr Taticek - bust). They didn't know what they had in Prucha, Lundqvist was just starting to make a name for himself and wasn't that top goaltending prospect yet and after that, they didn't have anything.
It was a terrible decision and there were so many other players enjoying great success playing against tougher competition (the ECAC was not nearly what it is today) and these players were safer and better picks. My aunt was high up in MSG at the time and I had also played hockey with someone who was even higher up than her. They both said that there was a rumored deal that almost went through earlier on in that season that would have sent Jarome Iginla and Calgary's 2003 first rounder to the Rangers.
Paulie Walnutz
HFNYR JUST AS SOFT AS NYR
- Oct 1, 2008
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I remember the one pre season game Mr. MSNBC spin man Micheletti hyped up how Jessiman took boxing lessons in the off season to help with his “physical game”, and right after Joe mentioned it he got his ass kicked by some no name scrub on the Devils.
- Oct 23, 2014
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Machinehead
Fox Mafia Consigliere
Had I seen your disclaimer in post 14 before I voted, I would have voted McIlrath.
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
I don't view analytics as being all that important with picking prospects. Development curves are all too variable, league quality too variable. You're talking about guys playing with 98% or more of players that will never play above the minor leagues. And you're also talking about guys who are all still growing.
RangerLifer
Formerly known as Captain Lindy
Ryan Getzlaf was picked [along with a few other really good NHL'ers] after Jessiman so to me, that is a gigantic bust. If we picked Getzlaf, we would have won the Cup in '14.
- Oct 23, 2014
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Bigger 'reach' - McIlrath
Bigger 'bust' (player they turned out to be vs pegged to potentially be'): Jessiman
Bigger 'bust' (player they turned out to be vs pegged to potentially be'): Jessiman
- Oct 23, 2014
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You mean production at lower levels? I would agree. It's a tool but just one. Look at MacKinnon vs Drouin production on 2013 Halifax team.
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
I mean everything. The only advanced stat for lower levels that I really put much attention on is primary points.But even then, you need to put so much focus on the age of the prospect, whether he is D+1 or D+2, etc. And even when you have a fair D+1 v. D+1 comparison, you then need to focus on their age and body development.
There are way too many factors when dealing with guys under 21 that are still growing.
NickyFotiu
NYR 2024 Cup Champs!
- Sep 29, 2011
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Few players have rookie college seasons like Hugh had. He was never really the same after his ankle injury. I'm not sure what happened. We have had some bad first round luck. Cherneski blew out his knee cap. Blackburn messed up his shoulder. Cherpy tragically passed away during a game.
The guy that stayed pretty healthy and should have been pretty good was Sanguenetti. He could really skate and shoot.
Lion Hound
Pornhub Enthusiast
The game was different at the time Jessiman was drafted. It wasn't just the Rangers salviating over a 6'6 power forward with a supposed scoring touch. In those years everyone was looking for the next Eric Lindros. Jessiman's scouting reports were calling him a poor mans Lindros. Picking him 12th, wasn't like they completely went off the grid. The results were what they were. He busted. I would say he was the bigger bust.
Brendl and Lundmark don't belong anywhere near this discussion, and that is because of the context of their draft class. In that draft, you had Patrik Stefan go #1! Then, of course, the Sedin twins--the only really good thing to come from that round of the draft. Brendl and Lundmark were very reasonable picks where they were taken. I mean look at the rest of the round--the top picks behind Brendl were Tim Connolly (#5), Taylor Pyatt (#8), Barrett Jackman (#17), Nick Boynton (#21), and then Marty Havlat (#26). So other than Havlat, are we lamentin that we missed out on Taylor Pyatt? You can certainly make the case that trading for the spot where we picked Lundmark was unwise, but the picks themselves were okay for that draft. It's just that the draft was trash.
Also, I take issue with the idea that Jessiman was a sure thing to be anything at the NHL level other than a bottom-sixer. He always had skating issues (not as important then as it is now, but still) and while he had size, he didn't play a game commensurate to that size. In his draft year he was #20 among NA skaters in the CSS rankings, and while the Rangers were attracted to his size and his roots and allegedly had him #4 on their board, there was a damn good reason he was available to them at #12. Jessiman was a mid-to-late first round pick that had some question marks attached. Hurting his ankle obviously exacerbated his shitty skating, there's no doubt. But, even once he decided to start fighting a couple years after turning pro, he still was hardly a power forward. He didn't play that game at all. He played like he was six inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter. He was never a given to do anything.
Also, I take issue with the idea that Jessiman was a sure thing to be anything at the NHL level other than a bottom-sixer. He always had skating issues (not as important then as it is now, but still) and while he had size, he didn't play a game commensurate to that size. In his draft year he was #20 among NA skaters in the CSS rankings, and while the Rangers were attracted to his size and his roots and allegedly had him #4 on their board, there was a damn good reason he was available to them at #12. Jessiman was a mid-to-late first round pick that had some question marks attached. Hurting his ankle obviously exacerbated his shitty skating, there's no doubt. But, even once he decided to start fighting a couple years after turning pro, he still was hardly a power forward. He didn't play that game at all. He played like he was six inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter. He was never a given to do anything.
Inferno
Registered User
i remember when the rangers passed on Olesz and got Montoya I was convinced the Rangers passed on a sure fire 30 goal a year winger.
woops
woops
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
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I thought Olesz was the next Bobby Holik. But I was #TeamTukonen I think. What an ugly draft.
The 2003 draft was one of the best of all-time in terms of talent in round 1, so I think the Jessiman pick hurt more in that regard.
The McIlrath pick was simply archaic. The Rangers got pushed around a lot in the 2009-2010 season and I think that had a bearing on their subsequent draft pick. Unfortunately, the game was trending in a direction that did not suite McIlrath's strong suits. Unlike 2003, however, you didn't have 10 very good eventual NHL'ers picked right behind him. That makes it a little easier to swallow here in hindsight land.
The McIlrath pick was simply archaic. The Rangers got pushed around a lot in the 2009-2010 season and I think that had a bearing on their subsequent draft pick. Unfortunately, the game was trending in a direction that did not suite McIlrath's strong suits. Unlike 2003, however, you didn't have 10 very good eventual NHL'ers picked right behind him. That makes it a little easier to swallow here in hindsight land.
LORDE
I am Lorde, YA YA YA
FACEPALM
This thread is about as bad as the last US Presidential election.
#theybothblow
This thread is about as bad as the last US Presidential election.
#theybothblow
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
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