Big name stars, who were bad playoff performers

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Always thought Holik was underwhelming in the post-season. Had a hard time scoring those goals in the dirty areas when the playoffs rolled around, for some reason. Not exactly a "big names", but P.J. Axelsson, Paul Ysebaert, and Antoine Vermette have also sucked badly compared even to their modest production in the regular season. More was always expected from Ethan Moreau and Pat Falloon, as well. Another among the lower ranks is Peter Zezel. I think the Leafs expected more out of him both offensively and defensively when they picked him up during the Dougie and Potvin years.

Point production-wise, I always thought Eddie Shack's numbers looked disappointing in the playoffs. He has 4 rings though, so I don't think too many people are complaining. Same can be said of Don Marshall, who put up respectable numbers in his role during the regular season, but seemed to just be along for the ride during the late 50s Hab dynasty years. Hey, 5 rings to show for it and well before my time though, so who knows.

In the end, there aren't too many legit stars with "patterns" of bad playoff performance. Many have had an off year or two though, that's for sure.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Always thought Holik was underwhelming in the post-season. Had a hard time scoring those goals in the dirty areas when the playoffs rolled around, for some reason. Not exactly a "big names", but P.J. Axelsson, Paul Ysebaert, and Antoine Vermette have also sucked badly compared even to their modest production in the regular season. More was always expected from Ethan Moreau and Pat Falloon, as well. Another among the lower ranks is Peter Zezel. I think the Leafs expected more out of him both offensively and defensively when they picked him up during the Dougie and Potvin years.

Point production-wise, I always thought Eddie Shack's numbers looked disappointing in the playoffs. He has 4 rings though, so I don't think too many people are complaining. Same can be said of Don Marshall, who put up respectable numbers in his role during the regular season, but seemed to just be along for the ride during the late 50s Hab dynasty years. Hey, 5 rings to show for it and well before my time though, so who knows.

In the end, there aren't too many legit stars with "patterns" of bad playoff performance. Many have had an off year or two though, that's for sure.

Now we're getting into guys who weren't stars. But I agree with you about Holik - I think a big reason the Devils choked 3 straight years in the playoffs from 97-99 is that they were relying on Holik as a scoring threat at the time, and he did not deliver.

In 95, he was a 4th liner, and in 00, he was a 3rd line checker.

 

[Mark753]

Not NHL, but Andre Lacroix's WHA playoff stats compared to regular season are horrible. 798 points in 551 games in regular (1.45 PPG) and 43 in 48 playoff games (.90). He had 7 points in 16 NHL playoff games (.44) and 198 in 325 regular (.61).

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Now we're getting into guys who weren't stars. But I agree with you about Holik - I think a big reason the Devils choked 3 straight years in the playoffs from 97-99 is that they were relying on Holik as a scoring threat at the time, and he did not deliver.

In 95, he was a 4th liner, and in 00, he was a 3rd line checker.

Yeah, that's why I definitely felt the need to preface that with a disclaimer. However, Moreau was/is the team captain, Falloon was a 2nd overall draft pick, and Eddie Shack was in there too!

Anyways, I found the most disappointing thing with regard to some stars and the post-season, is that we never got to see enough of them in those games. You have the scale from Petr Nedved (who didn't play a single post-season game between the age of 25 and 34) to Dionne (who got gyped by the combination of weak teams and shorter preliminary rounds in the mid/late 70s).

 

[lextune]

Marcel Dionne and Joe Thornton ftw!

(....or ftl )

 

[Dark Shadows]

The stats say the exact opposite about Mike Green.
.59 PPG in the regular season in his career
.76 PPG in the post season.

He was amazing against Philly in 08, great the first half of the Rangers series in 09, injured his shoulder, and was mediocre after that the rest of that season, but I guess it's easier to say "zOMG! He was teh sux0r!" than to actually put any rational thought into your opinion.

Inaccurate. The stats only say that if you look at them the wrong way. In the 2 regular seasons in which he made the playoffs, his PPG was 0.68 and 1.07, average of 0.875. In his first 2 years, when his PPG was at their lowest, he did not make the playoffs, thus, you should not include those years in the totals.

 

[Dark Shadows]

Kent Nilsson, Teemu Selanne, Marcel Dionne, Alexei Yashin and Joe Thornton, off the top of my head, suffer some of the most precipitous drops in points per game from the regular season to the playoffs.

(LOL, study fight)

Those were most of the same names I thought of first as well.

Thornton's time is quickly slipping away. He needs results and now. Keep in mind that Yzerman did not shake his "Playoff reputation" until he was 30 years old. Neither did several people.

A few seem to dislike Selanne being mentioned. Why?

Yes, Selanne did drop off at playoff time, and was rarely a big factor in playoffs. His performance declined in the post season every year. Imagine trimming 40-50 points off his yearly totals and those are the sorts of performances he was putting up in the playoffs. A few teammates routinely outperformed him.

Even in the year he won the cup, there were a ton of other players who were better. Getzlaf, Perry, MacDonald, Pahlsson and Moen were better among forwards, and Niedermayer/Pronger were most certainly better even though they played on Defense. Selanne was along for the ride. His PPG dropped from 1.14 in the regular season to 0.71 in the playoffs, and scoring was really all he was good for. In all honesty, his playoff Numbers are and always have been "Joe Thornton" like.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Just curious as to who you guys think they are?

As a Canucks fan, the first thing I thought of was not Markus Naslund (lol to you that do) but his linemate, Todd Bertuzzi, not kidding, look it up his best playoffs produced all of 2 goals in 14 games.

 

[Chased By Trolls]

Even in the year he won the cup, there were a ton of other players who were better. Getzlaf, Perry, MacDonald, Pahlsson and Moen were better among forwards, and Niedermayer/Pronger were most certainly better even though they played on Defense. Selanne was along for the ride.

Why am I not surprised to see the same "historian" embrace the same myth yet again? Selänne was tied for second on the team in points, a whopping two points behind Getzlaf. That's hardly being "along for the ride". 14 of his 15 points came when the game was either tied or within one goal (the 15th was an assist on the 3-0 goal in game 6 against Detroit, a 4-3 win). Two of his five goals were game winners and seven of his 10 assists were primary assists with the game on the line. He was on the ice for 17 goals for and only 8 goals against. He had several key goals and assists including:

-tying the first game against the Wild in an eventual 2-1 win
-scoring the winning goal and adding the primary assist on the first insurance goal in game 1 against the Canucks
-tying the game with 5 minutes left in the third period in game 4 against the Canucks in an eventual OT win (Ducks up 3-1 after that game)
-scoring a goal and two assists in game 4 against Detroit, including scoring the 3-1 goal and adding the primary assist on the game winner in the third period (series tied 2-2 after that one)
-primary assist on the tying goal in the last minute of regulation, after which he scored the game winner in OT in game 5 against the Wings (Ducks up 3-2)
-primary assist on the winning goal in the third period in game 4 against Ottawa (Ducks up 3-1 after the game)

Without Selänne the Ducks most likely never get out of the WCF (if they even reach the WCF) and Moen and Påhlsson's SCF heroics never get to happen.

All in all, Selänne's name shouldn't even be mentioned in a thread like this. His numbers from his Sharks and Avs years are less than impressive for well known reasons (injuries) and his production obviously fell in the playoffs, but whose wouldn't after the regular season stats he put up? However he was far from being a bad playoff performer, leading his team in either goals or points in 93, 97, 99, 06, 08 and being tied for second in points in the Cup year 07. Not surprisingly, this only leaves out the Sharks and Avs years, plus last year when he was a 38 y.o. second liner.

 

[nik jr]

I wonder how somebody can be considered a bad playoff performer after so few seasons.

agreed

many great players had not great playoffs early and then great playoffs afterward.

esposito
29 playoff games with chicago: 8p (4g, 4a)
rest of his playoff career: 129p (57g, 72a) in 101 games
2 rings; set a playoff scoring record in '70.

trottier
his 1st 4 playoffs: 27p (5g, 22a) in 42 games
next 4 playoffs: 107p (37g, 70a) in 75 games, 4 rings, conn smythe, tied esposito's playoff scoring record
added 2 more rings later with pittsburgh

bucyk
1st 37 playoff games: 15p (3g, 12a)
next 67 playoff games: 78p (35g, 43a), 2 rings


same for teams. DRW were known as chokers until '97.

 

[Dark Shadows]

Why am I not surprised to see the same "historian" embrace the same myth yet again? Selänne was tied for second on the team in points, a whopping two points behind Getzlaf. That's hardly being "along for the ride". 14 of his 15 points came when the game was either tied or within one goal (the 15th was an assist on the 3-0 goal in game 6 against Detroit, a 4-3 win). Two of his five goals were game winners and seven of his 10 assists were primary assists with the game on the line. He was on the ice for 17 goals for and only 8 goals against. He had several key goals and assists including:

-tying the first game against the Wild in an eventual 2-1 win
-scoring the winning goal and adding the primary assist on the first insurance goal in game 1 against the Canucks
-tying the game with 5 minutes left in the third period in game 4 against the Canucks in an eventual OT win (Ducks up 3-1 after that game)
-scoring a goal and two assists in game 4 against Detroit, including scoring the 3-1 goal and adding the primary assist on the game winner in the third period (series tied 2-2 after that one)
-primary assist on the tying goal in the last minute of regulation, after which he scored the game winner in OT in game 5 against the Wings (Ducks up 3-2)
-primary assist on the winning goal in the third period in game 4 against Ottawa (Ducks up 3-1 after the game)

Without Selänne the Ducks most likely never get out of the WCF (if they even reach the WCF) and Moen and Påhlsson's SCF heroics never get to happen.

All in all, Selänne's name shouldn't even be mentioned in a thread like this. His numbers from his Sharks and Avs years are less than impressive for well known reasons (injuries) and his production obviously fell in the playoffs, but whose wouldn't after the regular season stats he put up? However he was far from being a bad playoff performer, leading his team in either goals or points in 93, 97, 99, 06, 08 and being tied for second in points in the Cup year 07. Not surprisingly, this only leaves out the Sharks and Avs years, plus last year when he was a 38 y.o. second liner.

Selanne absolutely deserves mention in threads like this. Obviously, you feel the need to defend your Country's 2nd best player of all time, and I understand that it alters your judgment a bit, but I watched him play his entire career, and everything I said is what I believe from the first hand experience of seeing him.

I stand by what I said. Selanne was 5th-6th best on his team during the playoff cup win.

He finished the regular season with 94 points in 82 games for 1.15ppg. 16 more than anyone else on the team. In the playoffs, he should be scoring at near the same pace and at least leading the team. Instead, his line's offense is run primarily through MacDonald and his 10 goals, and the Getzlaf/Perry line, which was average in the regular season, becomes the clear cut most important line on the team. He scored 15 points in 21 games that playoff run for 0.71ppg. That would be roughly equal to a regular season performance of 59 points.

-tying the first game against the Wild in an eventual 2-1 win

Selanne scored 2 points in 5 games in that series. Not impressive. Tying a game 3 minutes later in the second period is not a "big goal", or a game winning goal like Perry's later that game, nor was his secondary assist in that series. He was still virtually invisible 4 games out of 5.

-scoring the winning goal and adding the primary assist on the first insurance goal in game 1 against the Canucks

Talk about twisting the words to make it sound good. Selanne scored 2 points in a 5-1 blowout. good performance, but hardly anything clutch. Game winning goals are nothing to write home about when its goal #2 in game where your teams scored 5. Don't talk about it like it was an important, game clinching OT goal when it was in fact it was merely a goal in a blowout.

-tying the game with 5 minutes left in the third period in game 4 against the Canucks in an eventual OT win (Ducks up 3-1 after that game)

Sam Pahlsson was the hero in that game. Primary set up on the first goal that got them back from a 2-0 deficit and the game winner in OT, while shutting down the Canucks top players along with Pronger and Niedermayer. But yes, this would count as a "big goal". But a single big goal does not make up the deficit. Selanne is expected to get these kinds of points and be a danger every night. not once in awhile.

-scoring a goal and two assists in game 4 against Detroit, including scoring the 3-1 goal and adding the primary assist on the game winner in the third period (series tied 2-2 after that one)
-primary assist on the tying goal in the last minute of regulation, after which he scored the game winner in OT in game 5 against the Wings (Ducks up 3-2)

Selanne had 2 good games against Detroit, and 4 games in which he was either invisible, or a big liability defensively.

-primary assist on the winning goal in the third period in game 4 against Ottawa (Ducks up 3-1 after the game)

Selanne was virtually invisible the entire finals. The times he was not invisible, he was a liability on the ice defensively. 3 assists in 5 games and a -1 is not what I expect from a guy who scored 48 goals and 94 points in 82 games during the season, far outscoring his teammates. His teammates outplayed him.

Getzlaf, Perry, MacDonald, Pahlsson, Moen, Niedermayer, Pronger....all played better than Selanne. Arguably, so did Giguere. The guy most important in the regular season is expected to stay the most important in the playoff. Selanne rarely did. Most years, he outperformed Kariya in the RS, but was outperformed in the playoffs and his point totals dropped an equivalent of 40-50 points in the regular season.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Context and False Assumptions

Selanne absolutely deserves mention in threads like this. Obviously, you feel the need to defend your Country's 2nd best player of all time, and I understand that it alters your judgment a bit, but I watched him play his entire career, and everything I said is what I believe from the first hand experience of seeing him.

I stand by what I said. Selanne was 5th-6th best on his team during the playoff cup win.

He finished the regular season with 94 points in 82 games for 1.15ppg. 16 more than anyone else on the team. In the playoffs, he should be scoring at near the same pace and at least leading the team. Instead, his line's offense is run primarily through MacDonald and his 10 goals, and the Getzlaf/Perry line, which was average in the regular season, becomes the clear cut most important line on the team. He scored 15 points in 21 games that playoff run for 0.71ppg. That would be roughly equal to a regular season performance of 59 points.


Selanne scored 2 points in 5 games in that series. Not impressive. Tying a game 3 minutes later in the second period is not a "big goal", or a game winning goal like Perry's later that game, nor was his secondary assist in that series. He was still virtually invisible 4 games out of 5.


Talk about twisting the words to make it sound good. Selanne scored 2 points in a 5-1 blowout. good performance, but hardly anything clutch. Game winning goals are nothing to write home about when its goal #2 in game where your teams scored 5. Don't talk about it like it was an important, game clinching OT goal when it was in fact it was merely a goal in a blowout.


Sam Pahlsson was the hero in that game. Primary set up on the first goal that got them back from a 2-0 deficit and the game winner in OT, while shutting down the Canucks top players along with Pronger and Niedermayer. But yes, this would count as a "big goal". But a single big goal does not make up the deficit. Selanne is expected to get these kinds of points and be a danger every night. not once in awhile.


Selanne had 2 good games against Detroit, and 4 games in which he was either invisible, or a big liability defensively.


Selanne was virtually invisible the entire finals. The times he was not invisible, he was a liability on the ice defensively. 3 assists in 5 games and a -1 is not what I expect from a guy who scored 48 goals and 94 points in 82 games during the season, far outscoring his teammates. His teammates outplayed him.

Getzlaf, Perry, MacDonald, Pahlsson, Moen, Niedermayer, Pronger....all played better than Selanne. Arguably, so did Giguere. The guy most important in the regular season is expected to stay the most important in the playoff. Selanne rarely did. Most years, he outperformed Kariya in the RS, but was outperformed in the playoffs and his point totals dropped an equivalent of 40-50 points in the regular season.

Why assume that a player should be scoring at the same pace in the playoffs as during the regular season. Fantasy league logic gone haywire. Seven game series the leading scorers draw the defensive attention allowing the other lines to step up and score since they are playing against the weak defensive lines and depth defensive pairings. If the secondary scorers do so the team's chances of winning increase - as evidenced by Anaheim's results.Selanne playing hard and accepting the defensive attention allowed the others to play without the same defensive attention.

A game tying goal against the Minnesota Wild - Jacques Lemaire coached team is very big since it changes the nature of the game from a passive defensive game that the Wild and Lemaire favoured to one where offense becomes a consideration for both teams.

Selanne's defense was always a bit soft. Anaheim played around it supporting him with defensive pairings that mitigated the situation.Again it is not about fantasy league type expectations but simply doing what it takes to win.If Selanne's presence on the ice reduces prime ice time for the oppositions stars like Spezza, Alfredsson and Heatley then the team is significantly ahead.

 

[jarek]

Why assume that a player should be scoring at the same pace in the playoffs as during the regular season. Fantasy league logic gone haywire. Seven game series the leading scorers draw the defensive attention allowing the other lines to step up and score since they are playing against the weak defensive lines and depth defensive pairings. If the secondary scorers do so the team's chances of winning increase - as evidenced by Anaheim's results.Selanne playing hard and accepting the defensive attention allowed the others to play without the same defensive attention.

A game tying goal against the Minnesota Wild - Jacques Lemaire coached team is very big since it changes the nature of the game from a passive defensive game that the Wild and Lemaire favoured to one where offense becomes a consideration for both teams.

Selanne's defense was always a bit soft. Anaheim played around it supporting him with defensive pairings that mitigated the situation.Again it is not about fantasy league type expectations but simply doing what it takes to win.If Selanne's presence on the ice reduces prime ice time for the oppositions stars like Spezza, Alfredsson and Heatley then the team is significantly ahead.

This.

 

[Crosbyfan]

Dionne

Dionne was a top regular season scorer on a team that often barely made the playoffs and simply would not have without him.

So he ends up playing against stronger teams that know stopping him is the key to winning.

He carried his team on his back into the playoffs on many occasions.

In the playoffs he didn't exactly disappear.

I wonder if his percentage of points to total goals by his team even dropped?

 

[MXD]

Dionne was a top regular season scorer on a team that often barely made the playoffs and simply would not have without him.

So he ends up playing against stronger teams that know stopping him is the key to winning.

He carried his team on his back into the playoffs on many occasions.

In the playoffs he didn't exactly disappear.

I wonder if his percentage of points to total goals by his team even dropped?

Still, considering how skilled he was, that is absolutely no reason to be outscored by Thomas Gradin in the playoffs.

 

[Dark Shadows]

Why assume that a player should be scoring at the same pace in the playoffs as during the regular season. Fantasy league logic gone haywire. Seven game series the leading scorers draw the defensive attention allowing the other lines to step up and score since they are playing against the weak defensive lines and depth defensive pairings. If the secondary scorers do so the team's chances of winning increase - as evidenced by Anaheim's results.Selanne playing hard and accepting the defensive attention allowed the others to play without the same defensive attention.

A game tying goal against the Minnesota Wild - Jacques Lemaire coached team is very big since it changes the nature of the game from a passive defensive game that the Wild and Lemaire favoured to one where offense becomes a consideration for both teams.

Selanne's defense was always a bit soft. Anaheim played around it supporting him with defensive pairings that mitigated the situation.Again it is not about fantasy league type expectations but simply doing what it takes to win.If Selanne's presence on the ice reduces prime ice time for the oppositions stars like Spezza, Alfredsson and Heatley then the team is significantly ahead.

The majority of the other top players managed to fight their way through the extra checking attention they received. Why should Selanne be any different?

The crux of the matter is that he has one of the worst Regular season/Playoff differential drops of all players, all time. If other top players managed to keep their game face on and elevate their play, he should have been able to as well. He didn't. He wilted. He got frustrated and made more mistakes. He played more tentatively. Ultimately, he was not the same player.

Dionne was a top regular season scorer on a team that often barely made the playoffs and simply would not have without him.

So he ends up playing against stronger teams that know stopping him is the key to winning.

He carried his team on his back into the playoffs on many occasions.

In the playoffs he didn't exactly disappear.

I wonder if his percentage of points to total goals by his team even dropped?

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=512805&highlight=Marcel+Dionne

 

[buffalowing88]

Pierre Turgeon
Keith Tkachuk
Pavol Demitra
Pronger pre-Oilers

All are guys I thought should've been much better in the playoffs than they were. Pronger turned it around of course, but guys like Tkachuk and Demitra have continued to disappoint in the playoffs after that Blues team got broken up.

As for Selanne, I think Andy MacDonald, Pahlsson, and Getzlaf were all more crucial than him. But for a guy in his late 30's being the fourth most important forward on a cup winner is hardly a disgrace.

I wont remember Tkachuk as a bad playoff performer. One of my favorite moments is when he called out Hasek back in the early part of the decade in a good series and than proceeded to score a hat trick and take a run at the Dominator when he left the crease.

He just got stuck on some terrible teams these last 5 years.

 

[Big Phil]

Pierre Turgeon
Keith Tkachuk
Pavol Demitra
Pronger pre-Oilers

I agree with you on the others, and believe me I WANT to agree with you on Turgeon but I wouldn't call him a bad playoff performer. Now, mind you, I wouldn't call him a good one either. Certainly not great. But he produced a decent amount of points. I think the thing with him was that he was nowhere to be found when his teams needed him. He never elevated his play at the right times. This is where he deservingly gets the "Tin Man" nickname by not having heart. He just lacked the passion, but his numbers were okay.

 

[Big Phil]

I wont remember Tkachuk as a bad playoff performer.

I will. And this is coming from mostly his time in Phoenix. Those Coyotes teams were not the Red Wings by any means but they never made it out of the first round and look at some crucial times like 1999 when all you needed was a goal at the right time from Mr. Tkachuk and the series is over. And the less said about his stint on Atlanta with the better. He had Hossa and Kovalchuk on his team at least. Pretty sad they failed to win a single playoff game

 

[Canadiens1958]

Avoiding the Question

The majority of the other top players managed to fight their way through the extra checking attention they received. Why should Selanne be any different?

The crux of the matter is that he has one of the worst Regular season/Playoff differential drops of all players, all time. If other top players managed to keep their game face on and elevate their play, he should have been able to as well. He didn't. He wilted. He got frustrated and made more mistakes. He played more tentatively. Ultimately, he was not the same player.




http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=512805&highlight=Marcel+Dionne

Avoiding the question. So I will phrase it differently. What is the basis for the assumption that a player's regular season performance should be reflected by playoff performance?

The 2007 Anaheim team was tied for the fourth highest point total during the regular season. Their scoring leader was Teemu Selanne. During the playoffs that resulted in Anaheim winning the Stanley Cup. Teemu Selanne was not the leading scorer but contributed nonetheless.

1966- 67 Toronto Maple Leafs. Dave Keon was the leading scorer during the regular season BUT 6th leading scorer during the playoffs as the Leafs won the Cup. Keon assumed significant defensive roles that helped shut down the Hawks and Canadiens offense. He won the Conn Smythe for his efforts.

1954-55 Detroit Red Wings. Dutch Reibel was the leading scorer during the regular season but fourth during the playoffs as the Wings won the cup. Howe, Delvecchio and Lindsay simply went from <.9ppg during the regular season to > 1.4 ppg. Reibel also increased his ppg.

Just two examples where either a player's role changed or the lines were juggled in a fashion where the player subordinated his stats for the team good, a Stanley Cup victory.

While Selanne's stats were not favourable compared to his regular season performance he still forced the other teams to defend his line with defensive match-ups, a net plus for Anaheim.

The assumption that a players playoff stats have to somehow reflect his regular season stats or slot is just fantasy league nonsense - not supported by the game conditions that produce a winning result.

 

[Big Phil]

I think the worst playoff performer of all time by comparison of his regular seasons is Woody Dumart. I haven't looked into it as deeply as I should but at least from a statistical standpoint he was terrible.

Regular season: 772gp for 429 points (alright for the 1940s era)
Playoffs: 88gp for 27 points

Dumart is a HHOFer even though I have heard a few rumblings about him before, but even when Boston won the Cup those two years the men they could thank would be Bill Cowley and Milt Schmidt. Even Bobby Bauer was notably absent in the scoring column and this was the best line in the NHL at the time. But Dumart is much worse.


Another player that gets a lot of heat thrown at him is Christian Ruutu. If you want a laugh look at his playoff resume



Onto goalies, Tony Esposito might fall into this category. I wouldn't say he was a bad playoff goalie but based on his resume in the regular season he needed to step up more.

Glenn Hall is another name that comes to mind. We can argue this if we want, but the truth is Hall was one of the reasons why the Hawks had that bad spell of playoff failure in the '60s. Look at crucial games in his career. Check out a lot of Game #6 and 7s. He let in a lot of goals.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

Avoiding the question. So I will phrase it differently. What is the basis for the assumption that a player's regular season performance should be reflected by playoff performance?

The 2007 Anaheim team was tied for the fourth highest point total during the regular season. Their scoring leader was Teemu Selanne. During the playoffs that resulted in Anaheim winning the Stanley Cup. Teemu Selanne was not the leading scorer but contributed nonetheless.

1966- 67 Toronto Maple Leafs. Dave Keon was the leading scorer during the regular season BUT 6th leading scorer during the playoffs as the Leafs won the Cup. Keon assumed significant defensive roles that helped shut down the Hawks and Canadiens offense. He won the Conn Smythe for his efforts.

1954-55 Detroit Red Wings. Dutch Reibel was the leading scorer during the regular season but fourth during the playoffs as the Wings won the cup. Howe, Delvecchio and Lindsay simply went from <.9ppg during the regular season to > 1.4 ppg. Reibel also increased his ppg.

Just two examples where either a player's role changed or the lines were juggled in a fashion where the player subordinated his stats for the team good, a Stanley Cup victory.

While Selanne's stats were not favourable compared to his regular season performance he still forced the other teams to defend his line with defensive match-ups, a net plus for Anaheim.

The assumption that a players playoff stats have to somehow reflect his regular season stats or slot is just fantasy league nonsense - not supported by the game conditions that produce a winning result.

Sure it's a net plus for Anaheim, and Selanne definitely made a positive contribution in the playoffs. But clearly his contribution as compared to the regular season lessened. It's generally expected of a player that his contribution will either increase or remain the same in the playoffs if the team wants to be successful, especially for the key cogs. Anaheim had several other players step up their game, and that's why they won. Sure it's not as simple as just comparing per-game averages, but it's not like Selanne was some physical beast or defensive stalwart that made significant contributions in places other than the scoresheet.

 

[Dark Shadows]

Sure it's a net plus for Anaheim, and Selanne definitely made a positive contribution in the playoffs. But clearly his contribution as compared to the regular season lessened. It's generally expected of a player that his contribution will either increase or remain the same in the playoffs if the team wants to be successful, especially for the key cogs. Anaheim had several other players step up their game, and that's why they won. Sure it's not as simple as just comparing per-game averages, but it's not like Selanne was some physical beast or defensive stalwart that made significant contributions in places other than the scoresheet.

Exactly.

Combine this with the fact that he was a disappearing act previously in his career, and you have an answer.

 

[mrhockey193195]

Yeah, primeau, with the help of Bryan McCabe, doubled his career goal output in 2004.

The big ot goal in 2000 probably helped his cause too.
Posted via Mobile Device

I'd argue Primeau's game 6 performance in 2004 against Tampa is his biggest legacy.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Based on What

Sure it's a net plus for Anaheim, and Selanne definitely made a positive contribution in the playoffs. But clearly his contribution as compared to the regular season lessened. It's generally expected of a player that his contribution will either increase or remain the same in the playoffs if the team wants to be successful, especially for the key cogs. Anaheim had several other players step up their game, and that's why they won. Sure it's not as simple as just comparing per-game averages, but it's not like Selanne was some physical beast or defensive stalwart that made significant contributions in places other than the scoresheet.

Bolded.Based on what? Bobby Clarke's performance in the 1974 and 1975 playoffs plus other examples given previously definitely debunk this point. Read the thread below for other considerations.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p=23996604#post23996604

Again you and a others have taken a fantasy league mantra and believe it to be true when it is easily shown that the opposite is commonplace.

Simply put, the Stanley Cup victory is what matters and not which players failed to meet, met or surpassed fantasy league expectations.