Cardiac Jerks
Asinine & immoral
Whatever his mystery injury is must still be bugging him. No sense playing him against the worst team in the league if it’s going to risk making things worse.
GDT: bhawk cane
- Thread starter AhosDatsyukian
- Start date
Anton Dubinchuk
aho
As we all know, Andersen and Kochetkov are amazing but injury prone. Important that we have a very consistent guy like Raanta there as well who we can always rely on.
Boom Boom Apathy
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Well, at least this is something we can't blame on KK this game.
To be clear though, our 5v5 SH% was only 17th in the NHL over the past 3 seasons combined a 8.18% and this year it's in the bottom 10 at 7.78%, so not that far off from the norm. Losing Nino and not having Pacioretty available as a replacement probably accounts for that (and maybe more). I don't ever think we'll be top 10 because of our style of play. We purposely encourage a lot of shots from the defensemen, and a lot of shots in general, and try to create havoc in front of the goal (look at all 3 last night), rebounds and try to outwork teams for the puck. By default, that's not going to result in a high SH%. We also don't have the high end elite talent some teams have, but have more depth.
The PP is where it's really tailed off. The last 3 years combined it was 4th best in the NHL at 15.27%. This year it's 31st in the NHL at 10.82%.
This is why I think the team still has room to improve. They are 2nd in the NHL in points % and that's WITH a poorly performing PP and below norm SH%. I'm excited to see what happens when Patches returns, not just because of his own shot, but will it also open up opportunities for other players as teams have to worry about him.
We'll need it come playoff time because outworking/out hustling teams gets exceedingly more difficult in the playoffs and special teams is critical.
AhosDatsyukian
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I think I heard Tripp say on the broadcast yesterday that he wanted to start and Rod overruled him, so doesn't seem like it's bugging him too much. Maybe whatever the injury was has recommended rest of 1+ week and he says he's fine but the team is just playing it safe. Or he's ded, who knows
AhosDatsyukian
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Are we really winning right now by "outworking/out hustling" like we have in the past? I honestly don't think so. I mean Martinook is out there forechecking and going crazy like a man possessed but the rest of our forecheck does not look nearly as intense as it was back in 2018-19 when we had to outwork/out hustle teams to get wins and get in the playoffs. Especially looking at some of our better players, they don't particularly look like they're trying super hard out there. Not saying they're not trying but I think this team is winning more on structure, hockey IQ and skill than purely outworking other teams. I think our energy throughout the team still has a few more levels we can take it to, and will do so come playoff time.
Boom Boom Apathy
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Yes, we are for the most part. Look at every goal last night and even a bunch of chances. It's not just the forecheck, it's outworking in the zone and in the neutral zone. None of those goals were "skill goals", they were all the result of outworking the other team. I think you might be confusing "forechecking and going crazy" with working hard. Look how hard this team goes after the puck in the offensive and neutral zone. Necas is like a man possessed hounding the puck. Jarvis was the same last night. Most every player works very hard, not just in forechecking, but hounding the puck, getting to the net, hurrying back, disrupting the neutral zone, etc..
Granted, Chicago isn't a good team, but when this team was on last night, Chicago could barely get it out of the zone. They were all over them.
Certainly structure and IQ are part of it and I didn't mean to imply it's "only" outworking them but speed and hard work are the staple of this team. Every player says it, the coach preaches it.
Could be. My point is that every team has a few more levels that they can take it to come playoff time.
I'm by no means complaining, just stating that we'll likely need our PP and scoring to be better in the playoffs because of that.
bleedgreen
Registered User
The Hawks broadcast summed it up pretty well last night. We’re an average bunch on special teams and exceptional 5v5, maybe the best team in the league.
We’ve nearly perfected what a team that seems to lack high end skill can do to nullify that. We’ve done that for years though. Special teams is a big part of the next step. It’s hard to imagine winning it all without a dangerous pp. I remember how I felt every time Tampa or Boston put their top unit on the ice against us…. I just wanted to cover my eyes.
The PP hasn’t been the same this year, and the new guys are Burns and Noesen. I love Noesen’s story, and he’s had a few moments but I don’t think he’s good enough. That’s very us to try to money puck our top unit that way but enough is enough. If Burns is part of the problem at this point that’s too bad, that’s his spot. I assume this is where Patches is going and somehow Noesen was just “next man up”. Still, it’s a long time to wait to not try to fix something that’s so important.
We’ve nearly perfected what a team that seems to lack high end skill can do to nullify that. We’ve done that for years though. Special teams is a big part of the next step. It’s hard to imagine winning it all without a dangerous pp. I remember how I felt every time Tampa or Boston put their top unit on the ice against us…. I just wanted to cover my eyes.
The PP hasn’t been the same this year, and the new guys are Burns and Noesen. I love Noesen’s story, and he’s had a few moments but I don’t think he’s good enough. That’s very us to try to money puck our top unit that way but enough is enough. If Burns is part of the problem at this point that’s too bad, that’s his spot. I assume this is where Patches is going and somehow Noesen was just “next man up”. Still, it’s a long time to wait to not try to fix something that’s so important.
AhosDatsyukian
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I don't see that as being a result of outworking the other team. It's a result of our system being aggressive and allowing us to hound the puck like that and having smart players that know when to jump in, when not to jump in, when to cover for guys, where to be on the ice, etc.
In my eyes there is a noticeable difference between this team and earlier Rod teams, especially 2018-19 and 2019-20, when we had considerably less skill/talent throughout the forward group. It's a team coached by RBA of course no one is ever going to be clearly dogging it or not trying. But watching the team those first few years the guys had to play like every single game was a playoff game in order to get wins, there was no other option. We have won plenty of games this year where we were not relentlessly giving it our all on the ice, and we can afford to do that knowing that the playoffs is what matters and because we have a good enough team to get in the playoffs without having to outwork the opponent every single game.
This is where I disagree. Those early Rod teams did not have any more levels they could take it to, they were playing at their highest level throughout much of the regular season out of necessity. And I think that mindset carried over into the last 2 years when we didn't need to be playing at that highest level but did anyways and there was some inevitable burnout in the playoffs, as we saw with Tampa too. This is just one factor, there are obviously other concerns with this team, especially PP and PK in the playoffs. But I don't think we're relying on outworking teams at all.
AD Skinner
Registered User
Maybe its just me and my own headspace but I feel like there is a palpable difference in games against say the penguins or bruins than there is against say the hawks.
Boom Boom Apathy
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Meh, you're splitting hairs here. I never said "they are working as hard as 18-19" a team that had to play playoff hockey from Jan 1st on.
Whatever though. All the players say it, all the coaches say it, the announcers say it, opposition says it.
If you disagree, that's fine. Your username shows that you aren't afraid to be wrong so I give you credit.
hblueridgegal
We'll bounce back
TT's demotion on the PP stands out to me as well. I know he's having a rough year so far but if you're going to pass ad nauseam, pass well at least. The composition of the 2nd unit doesn't seem to match his skill set. Maybe the forthcoming realignment will help both PP squads.
Nikishin Go Boom
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im guessing his knee / groin / whatever LBI felt good after the break and tried to test it during the morning skate but it tightened back up after.
You guys are both right in my eyes. With Brock, McLovin, et. al. we did seemed to be much more aggressive on the forecheck. Some games it seems we were constantly in the Ozone znd cycling away. Teams would always say how hard it was to play against us... Not quite as much now. We are bit more skilled.Meh, you're splitting hairs here. I never said "they are working as hard as 18-19" a team that had to play playoff hockey from Jan 1st on.
Whatever though. All the players say it, all the coaches say it, the announcers say it, opposition says it.
If you disagree, that's fine. Your username shows that you aren't afraid to be wrong so I give you credit.
Perhaps one of you can pull up the stats on Ozone time over the years compared to now. I'm to lazy.
Then again, it could be just my imagination.
Svechhammer
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I think the team has found the right balance 5v5 to be exceptionally good while at the same time keeping some in the tank so that we aren't burning out late in the season like we did last year.
Our PP is useless. And I'm not sure I fully buy the skill deficit as an excuse. The best thing about our play 5v5 is that we keep things moving, we keep the defense moving and eventually are able to catch someone out of position and capitalize on it. The worst thing about our PP is that it's stationary and doesn't force the PK out of position to get those backdoor passes we desperately try to set up. If we were to just keep the skates moving and cycle the puck on the PP we'd be so much better, but we just resort to puck handling between the dots and blue line and the PK just sits back and makes sure they are in the shooting lanes. I don't care if you have Ovi on the PP, you aren't scoring without forcing the PK to react.
Our PP is useless. And I'm not sure I fully buy the skill deficit as an excuse. The best thing about our play 5v5 is that we keep things moving, we keep the defense moving and eventually are able to catch someone out of position and capitalize on it. The worst thing about our PP is that it's stationary and doesn't force the PK out of position to get those backdoor passes we desperately try to set up. If we were to just keep the skates moving and cycle the puck on the PP we'd be so much better, but we just resort to puck handling between the dots and blue line and the PK just sits back and makes sure they are in the shooting lanes. I don't care if you have Ovi on the PP, you aren't scoring without forcing the PK to react.
bleedgreen
Registered User
That’s a good point. To me TT for a long time really only clicked with Aho, and even though there's been some improvement in that category I agree he doesn’t really click with the other unit. Embrace him for who he is or move on from him, because he isn’t growing into a different player now.
Why react if you know Necas will hit the glass on a one-timer? Aho is better, but no premier shooting threat. A point shot from the middle is inefficient too.
There’s not a lot for them to do if opposing PKs stay tight to the box, other than hope plays.
There’s not a lot for them to do if opposing PKs stay tight to the box, other than hope plays.
Nikishin Go Boom
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Not sure if this was it, but there used to be a Binghamton Whalers team I think it was that used a logo like that.
Nikishin Go Boom
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That is it. Learned something new
On an optimistic note, teams have won at the highest level with mediocre to bad PPs. Boston 11, Chicago 13 and L.A. 12 were sub-13% in the playoffs. Anaheim 07, St. Louis 19, Chicago 15 and Detroit 08 ended up in the 15%-20% range.
Timing is going to be of the utmost importance. The Canes have had the misfortune of going up against 3 all-time great PPs recently. That's not hyperbole; among teams with 8 wins or more (i.e. conference finalist) since 1980, Boston 19, Tampa 21 and New York 22 rank 3, 4 and 5 respectively in PP%. Avoid that and special teams won't be crippling.
Timing is going to be of the utmost importance. The Canes have had the misfortune of going up against 3 all-time great PPs recently. That's not hyperbole; among teams with 8 wins or more (i.e. conference finalist) since 1980, Boston 19, Tampa 21 and New York 22 rank 3, 4 and 5 respectively in PP%. Avoid that and special teams won't be crippling.
Boom Boom Apathy
I am the Professor. Deal with it!
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What % did the Canes contribute to those all time great PPs? Were they 19, 21 and 22 throughout the playoffs split pretty evenly? Or were they much better vs. Carolina and lower against other teams but still had a high number overall?
Just curious.
He has a day to day nagging injury + perhaps Canes being protective. Antii had Christmas rest so he fit in nicely.
Now, if you can solve the Freddie mystery Canes fans will salute you.
WreckingCrew
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Of course they were, they played US after all (who has historically bad PKs against them). 10 for 15 against the Canes* means you only need a few over the rest of the playoffs to be historically good on the PP
* No I didn't look up the stat, but it feels accurate lol
| Year | Team | Carolina Series | Others |
19 | Boston | 46.7% | 28.8% |
21 | Tampa | 43.8% | 28.8% |
22 | New York | 33.3% | 31.4% |
Roughly flat for New York. Boston and Tampa are still Top 10 under that criteria sans the Carolina series.
I have sympathy for the PK. A good PP that is hot can just out execute it. Boston proceeded to score on 6 of the first 14 PP attempts (42.9%) against St. Louis. Tampa had just demolished Florida's PK in the prior series to the tune of 8 for 20 (40%).
It's like Tampa had the best penalty killer in the world in Vasi, but got ran over last season in the final 2 rounds (65.6%) against the Rangers and the 2nd best PP under that criteria in Colorado.
