Better Player in their 30s - Ovechkin or Crosby

[Golden_Jet]

It's time to close this thread. Crosby was declared as the winner. Some people got owned on the way, that's life.

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Still struggling lol.

 

[hamzarocks]

This argument literally falls apart when you look at goals, goals wins games.

No goals are the end result

No team scores unassisted goals where the goal scorer is doing everything

More pts you have the more offense you produce which leads to wins.

Crosby is 102 per 82 (38G + 64A) player for his career in the reg season and 92 per 82 (34G +58A) in the playoffs. He won 3 cups and made 1SCF loss + 1ECF

OV is a 89 per 82 (49G + 40A) player for his career and 77per 82 player (39G + 38A) in the playoffs and has 1cup + 0 SCF loss + 0 ECF loss despite being on heavy contender from 08 to 2020

You look at them for just age 30 onwards seasons and its 95 per 82 for Crosby vs 82 per 82 for OV.

The ability to generate, drive, create and convert offense dictates the best players. Being a more rounded producer is how your amongst the most valuable players and can produce in tighter playoff environments.

OV falls in same tier as Crosby but he isnt higher than him. Anyone who watched them play would not seriously take OV from 2011 to now over Crosby from same time period.

2008-2010 OV goes above Crosby for sur (though crosby was still the 2nd or 3rd best player in the league over this period)

The all time top 10 lists has gretzky, lemieux, Jagr, Mcdavid, Crosby, Howe as forwards who were all time point producers and better point producers than goal scorers

The only two on the top 10 who were better goal scorers would be Bobby Hull and OV.

High end Point producers are superior to high end goal scorers.

 

[BoHorvat 53]

Sid puts up the numbers, plays the more important position, has been in the top-15 of Selke voting perennially since 30 - I think this is him comfortably.

 

[Sky04]

Ovechkin easily, nobody actually cares about a PPG record. There’s a reason it didn’t get really any national media attention. Micky mouse ass record. Ovechkin led his team to playoffs the last 2 seasons, Crosby last year with a far better team couldn’t even get his team in the postseason. Broke the all time goals record even with a broken leg this year. I mean what are we talking about.

Cause Ovechkin has players carrying him, Crosby is doing the carrying.

 

[Frosty415]

Just look, at least, at the three comments before yours. This pov has been adressed already. Why do you just repeat it like a cymbal banging monkey toy repeats its routine on command during the Christmas Eve for the 115th time?

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Take your own advice, this is over 30 and one has over 400 goals, both have one cup

 

[Hippasus]

While a minor point, I think Crosby being a couple years younger benefits his results on the ice when talking about players in their 30s. If we also had future knowledge of how Crosby does two seasons into the future and then looked at per-game stats, etc., that would give a more level playing field.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The greatest player ever, Wayne Gretzky, wasn't particularly known for his goal scoring ability but rather his ability to read the game. His assist record is even harder to break than the goal record. And there's a reason for this: hockey is a team sport. Points account for your ability to play for your team. More points = more goals the player has factored in.

Why would we need to look at the goals when total points are more important? Oh right, so that Ovi would look better and not a fringe top 20 player lol

Nice dodge.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Crosby has a better PPG while also being nominated for the Selke AND also winning more Stanley Cups...

Nobody is saying that Ovie has been bad, that would be a stupid arguement to make lol, but IMO, the answer is pretty clear cut

Except it's not...

 

[jalapenoWithAnH]

Nice dodge.

It's a dodge in the same way not entertaining a question that is about how many Stanley Cups Montreal has won in it's history is a dodge when analyzing which is the current better team Montreal or Tampa.

Just stick to the most relevant facts: points. Ovis ability to score goals hasn't correlated with his team's succes in NHL or on the national level. Crosby is a different story. Points matter the most which is evident by the fact that NHL only introduced an award for goal scoring in the 90s..

 

[Golden_Jet]

It's a dodge in the same way not entertaining a question that is about how many Stanley Cups Montreal has won in it's history is a dodge when analyzing which is the current better team Montreal or Tampa.

lol doubles down on the dodge.
Maybe don’t be so condescending with your posts, like the ones earlier.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It's a dodge in the same way not entertaining a question that is about how many Stanley Cups Montreal has won in it's history is a dodge when analyzing which is the current better team Montreal or Tampa.

Just stick to the most relevant facts: points. Ovis ability to score goals hasn't correlated with his team's succes in NHL or on the national level. Crosby is a different story. Points matter the most which is evident by the fact that NHL only introduced an award for goal scoring in the 90s..

It was a dodge. Don’t double down. Acknowledge the goals. Don’t pretend they don’t matter.

 

[hamzarocks]

It was a dodge. Don’t double down. Acknowledge the goals. Don’t pretend they don’t matter.

They don't not more than pts.

Matthews may end up a top 10 player on here accordinging to people who view goal scoring as the most important trait in a player.

Crosby has routinely outperformed OV on a per game basis. With his superior play from 2011 to now making him a better and higher ranked player all time in majority of hockey fans/analystd/players/coaches/GMs etc., eyes

The gap between Crosby and OV is smae as the gap between Mcdavid and Crosby.

 

[BoHorvat 53]

Except it's not...

Why is it not clear cut? Sid plays the more important position - undisputable. Their production is legitimately the same (Crosby has the edge, but I'd call it even with the goal differential). Crosby is the better 5-on-5 producer - undisputable. Crosby is light years better in his own end - undisputable.

I'm genuinely curious why it wouldn't be clear cut in Sid's favor.

 

[max21]

Cause Ovechkin has players carrying him, Crosby is doing the carrying.

Yeah Crosby carrying his team to no playoffs the last 2 years, Ovechkin after the all star break last year literally put the team on his back to the playoffs

Fr lol. This isn't even debatable. The same thing is happening with Matthews right now to a lesser degree, just a shitload of people putting too much focus on his goal totals. His 2 way play + position does compensate but it's still ridiculous nonetheless.

gOaLs aRe tHe mOsT vAlUaBlE pArT oF tHe gAmE is a laughable statement if you're completely 1 dimensional and a mid playmaker. There's a reason why it's easy to shut down goalscorers

”there’s a reason it’s easy to shut down goal scorers” no way you just said that lol. Why can’t they shut down Ovechkin then? You can really just say anything on this forum I guess

 

[TheLegend27]

Probably just a coincidence that he’s won everything you can possibly win. At every level.

Having stacked teams where you don’t have to preform like the best player certainly helps. Maybe you’re right, he definitely carried underdog team Canada to the gold.

 

[jalapenoWithAnH]

It was a dodge. Don’t double down. Acknowledge the goals. Don’t pretend they don’t matter.

It has been explained already why points matter more than just goals.

Everyone knows Ovi is the best goal scorer. You focusing on goals is just deflection. Why do you want to deflect so hard? You don't like Ovi having less points than Crosby?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

They don't not more than pts.

Matthews may end up a top 10 player on here accordinging to people who view goal scoring as the most important trait in a player.

Crosby has routinely outperformed OV on a per game basis. With his superior play from 2011 to now making him a better and higher ranked player all time in majority of hockey fans/analystd/players/coaches/GMs etc., eyes

The gap between Crosby and OV is smae as the gap between Mcdavid and Crosby.

Another dodge.

 

[jalapenoWithAnH]

Having stacked teams where you don’t have to preform like the best player certainly helps. Maybe you’re right, he definitely carried underdog team Canada to the gold.

Yeah it's not like Crosby won the Conn Smythe for 2/3 of their Cup runs lol...

 

[Golden_Jet]

It has been explained already why points matter more than just goals.

Why, because you said so, ok then.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It has been explained already why points matter more than just goals.

And yet, people won't answer the question.

Weird that you'd go so far to try to avoid it if it's meaningless.

 

[hamzarocks]

Another dodge.

Are you an OV fanboy?

Or are you just trolling?

In the grand scheme neither Crosby nor OV matter.

Mcdavid has made their careers look not as impressive with his sustained historical dominance

 

[jalapenoWithAnH]

And yet, people won't answer the question.

Weird that you'd go so far to try to avoid it if it's meaningless.

I literally just did by saying he is the best goal scorer. It's kinda self evident don't you think SINCE HE f***ING PASSED WAYNE GRETZKY EARLIER THIS WEEK.

Now why do you want to deflect from point discussion to a goal discussion? The goal award itself has only existed for like 30 years now. You love Crosby sweeping the floor with Ovi in total points don't you boy?

 

[TheLegend27]

It has been explained already why points matter more than just goals.

Secondary assist aren’t nearly as valuable. Every other sport factors in primary points except hockey. Why should we stop at two assists per goal? Why not add a third one?. Ovi still leads Sid by primary points by quite a bit, and Sid’s lower value secondary assists cancel out that advantage. That’s why it’s so close.

 

[jalapenoWithAnH]

Secondary assist aren’t nearly as valuable. Every other sport factors in primary points except hockey. Why should we stop at two assists per goal? Why not add a third one?. Ovi still leads Sid by primary points by quite a bit, and Sid’s lower value secondary assists cancel out that advantage. That’s why it’s so close.

This is called cope.

 

[hamzarocks]

Another dodge.

Whatever man, keep it up

You can't give a reason why OV is a better player than Crosby besides more goals.