Better Player in their 30s - Ovechkin or Crosby

[Fatass]

You can’t ignore the teams. McDavid did everything humanly possible to win. He won the Smythe in a losing cause. Is he a lesser player than MacKinnon because he hasn’t won? Of course not.

Crosby had Malkin riding shotgun. Give OV Malkin and he has more cups and Crosby might not have any.

And that’s why ranking the greatest players is based on opinion. They’re all incredible! OV is not only the greatest goal scorer he’s also a best power forward. He can fight, when called on, too. Just ask Svechnikov about that.
Imo Crosby and ov and McDavid are in the tier of greatest players after the big four. And where they are placed within that tier (because they’re all so close in their greatness) has to be the ability to lead their club to Cups. McDavid has yet to do that. So (for me) he is lower in the tier. It’s still the same tier. These greatest players are separated by hairs.

 

[Turin]

Plus minus is weak sauce. Ovechkin has almost identical seasons in 2014 vs 2015 and yet there’s 55 point plus/minus differential between the two. It’s meaningless.

I don't mean plus minus, I mean his team is actively hurt when he's on the ice 5 on 5.

 

[Fatass]

Interesting. Gretzky has nine games without a goal at the end. So if you gave both players 1486 games they’d be at the same pace. OV has a game in hand. I guess he has to score tomorrow to actually beat Gretzky’s pace.

Gretzkey’s goal scoring dropped off dramatically as he aged. OV is a goal scoring machine, regardless of age. He’s like Gordie in the way he ages.
And is there a more likeable player than OV?

 

[Grifter3511]

Sometimes it’s trolling. More often than not though people seem to think using terms like “it’s not even debatable” is an argument of its own. It isn’t. “You’re wrong” isn’t argument either.

Again, no issue with someone who wants to argue either side here. But if you’re going to argue a point, then bring in facts to back your position up. Both players have strong arguments for being best in their era.

Ovechkin’s goal numbers are unworldly. Breaking Gretzky’s record was unthinkable. One of the holiest of the holys. And OV reached 894 in one fewer game than Wayne Gretzky. …Wayne Gretzky. He did it in a lower scoring era too.

I don’t have an adequate superlative for this.

He actually didn't reach it before him if I'm not mistaken. Gretzky didn't score his final 8 games so he actually got his 894th goal 7 games before Ovi, or something like that

 

[Video Nasty]

?

Watchu talkin’ ‘bout Willis?

Ovechkin makes history by tying Gretzky's NHL goals record | NHL.com

Capitals forward scores Nos. 893, 894 in win against Blackhawks to equal mark that had stood for 31 years

www.nhl.com

Inside that article: “He scored his 894th while playing for the New York Rangers against the Islanders at Madison Square Garden on March 29, 1999, before retiring at the end of that season.”

They tell you when he scored 894, but like everyone else, pretend that it took him until his 1,487th game to do it (in their rush to say Ovechkin took until his 1,486th game).

You have to do your own leg work, about 3-5 seconds, to see that Gretzky played 8 more games past that game he scored #894.

The media is simply looking at Gretzky’s final games total and using that number as the #game it took him to score his 894th, which is false. And per usual, few either possess the knowledge or refuse to double check before parroting it.

As stated, Ovechkin will be the quickest to 895 and beyond by virtue of being the new record holder setting the mark further with each goal scored.

I’m simply reporting the facts, something a thousand writers with the internet at their disposal, are unable to do before passing around an incorrect statement as the truth.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

And that’s why ranking the greatest players is based on opinion. They’re all incredible! OV is not only the greatest goal scorer he’s also a best power forward. He can fight, when called on, too. Just ask Svechnikov about that.
Imo Crosby and ov and McDavid are in the tier of greatest players after the big four. And where they are placed within that tier (because they’re all so close in their greatness) has to be the ability to lead their club to Cups. McDavid has yet to do that. So (for me) he is lower in the tier. It’s still the same tier. These greatest players are separated by hairs.

Right. So why were you saying it’s obviously Crosby?

Nothing is obvious here. They are two closely matched superstars.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Inside that article: “He scored his 894th while playing for the New York Rangers against the Islanders at Madison Square Garden on March 29, 1999, before retiring at the end of that season.”

They tell you when he scored 894, but like everyone else, pretend that it took him until his 1,487th game to do it (in their rush to say Ovechkin took until his 1,486th game).

You have to do your own leg work, about 3-5 seconds, to see that Gretzky played 8 more games past that game he scored #894.

The media is simply looking at Gretzky’s final games total and using that number as the #game it took him to score his 894th, which is false. And per usual, few either possess the knowledge or refuse to double check before parroting it.

As stated, Ovechkin will be the quickest to 895 and beyond by virtue of being the new record holder setting the mark further with each goal scored.

I’m simply reporting the facts, something a thousand writers with the internet at their disposal, are unable to do before passing around an incorrect statement as the truth.

See post 50.

 

[Video Nasty]

Interesting. Gretzky has nine games without a goal at the end. So if you gave both players 1486 games they’d be at the same pace. OV has a game in hand. I guess he has to score tomorrow to actually beat Gretzky’s pace.

Yes, but that’s not how it’s being reported in the moment. It is being reported that Ovechkin got to 894 quicker than Gretzky, which is simply untrue.

If we wanted to say they have the same goal total through 1,486 games, that is course true, but not how it’s reported.

As you said, if Ovechkin breaks the record in his next game, he’ll have more goals than Gretzky did through 1,487 games.

But he’ll always have taken 7 games more to score his own 894th.

This is not about the impressiveness of the feat, I just want it to be reported the right way.

Ovechkin will have all the glory from 895 on. I suspect this false reporting for when he tied the record has taken hold and will stick, regardless of it being a lie.

An interesting commentary how despite all the information in the world available at any second and we still thrive off rampant hearsay.

 

[psycat]

I’m still bitter that Russian players weren’t allowed to compete in the 4 Nations. Cheapens the entire tournament for me

They are contionously dissapointing at the international stage either way(in relation to player material that is), Ovi for example had some lukewarm showings. Now I don't think that should be any huge contributing factor to who you rank higher in their 30s, Crosby plays for the best national team after all even if he is part of it being that way, but still.

If there is anything(other than rather short peak) holding Ovi back in all-time rankings for me it's his international career, some of it is due to lack of opportunity for sure(so in that sense I agree that I would have liked Russia to be in the tournament I suppose then again I can see why they weren't invited) but alot is also simply not performing in the earlier parts of his career- in relation to his own standard of course.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

You can’t ignore the teams. McDavid did everything humanly possible to win. He won the Smythe in a losing cause. Is he a lesser player than MacKinnon because he hasn’t won? Of course not.

Crosby had Malkin riding shotgun. Give OV Malkin and he has more cups and Crosby might not have any.

Give Crosby Ovechkin's teammates and goalies and he maybe has 4+ cups.

 

[66-30-33]

Meh, what I want is

Crosby to reach 2K points
Ovechkin to reach 1K goals

 

[BraveCanadian]

Player is likely Crosby.

Ovechkin was the better goal scorer but spent a lot of his 30s as literally a turret.

 

[wasup]

Crosby

 

[Fataldogg]

It's very close. Perhaps a slight edge to Ovechkin, but I wouldn't have a problem with someone saying Crosby. What these two have done in their 30s is special.

 

[BelovedIsles]

I’ve always favored Sid bc he can bring so much and beat you so many ways.

 

[Nathaniel]

Crosby is about to have his third straight 90+ point season a number ovechkin has hit once in the last 15 years.

 

[DamonDRW]

Crosby is about to have his third straight 90+ point season a number ovechkin has hit once in the last 15 years.

He was probably busy scoring goals?

 

[Nathaniel]

He was probably busy scoring goals?

Which is great. But points will always be the more important stat.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Ovi, mostly because he looks 50 and Sid is the kid.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Crosby is simply the superior hockey player

 

[Bank Shot]

Crosby is about to have his third straight 90+ point season a number ovechkin has hit once in the last 15 years.

Crosby's leadership has gone straight in the toilet though. He can't even get his team in the playoffs.

Ovie on the other hand has reinvented himself as a dominant two way player and exemplary leader that has resulted in his team being 1st in the league. Wow!

 

[Roshi]

Historically Ovechkin is ahead.

Crosby is better overall player, sure. But the thing where Ovechkin specialises he has been best ever to lace em up. Better than Gretzky. Let that sink in.

Which one i take to boot a franchise? Depends. Not sure. Good news is both are one of the greatest ever so cant go wrong either way.

The tone in this comparison is undervaluing nowadays. Their peak was something different. Back then it was ”which is better”, now its ”which is worse”. Thats ridiculous, as both are still today at the top of the league. Die as a hero or live long enough to become a villain, eh.

 

[TheSmokingMan]

Honest question here. I see a lot of Crosby fans talking about him being one of the top defensive forwards during his career. What evidence do you use to determine that this is true?

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Honest question here. I see a lot of Crosby fans talking about him being one of the top defensive forwards during his career. What evidence do you use to determine that this is true?

This is a nice straw man you set up.

 

[TheSmokingMan]

This is a nice straw man you set up.

Not a straw man if multiple posters (in this thread even) consistently use Crosby's defensive abilities as a reason why he's a superior player. It's ok if you can't answer or don't know, but please try to contribute something more interesting to the conversation. I'm looking for evidence for the claim that Crosby is as good defensively as people are asserting.