Better Player in their 30s - Ovechkin or Crosby

[Mitch nylander]

I feel this question has to be asked. I think it's fair to say Crosby has more successful 20s, with his 3 cups, the golden goals, and the Conn smythe. However, I think that there is a genuine debate here for who's been better since turning 30.

Season By Season Points

Age	Alex Ovechkin	Sidney Crosby
Age 30	79GP - 50 goals, 21 assists, 71 points	82GP - 29 goals, 60 assists, 89 points
Age 31	82GP - 33 goals, 36 assists, 69 points	79GP - 35 goals, 65 assists, 100 points
Age 32	82GP - 49 goals, 38 points, 87 points	41GP - 16 goals, 31 assists, 47 points
Age 33	82GP - 51 goals, 38 assists, 89 points	55GP - 24 goals, 38 assists, 62 points
Age 34	68GP - 48 goals, 19 assists, 67 points	69GP - 31 goals, 53 assists, 84 points
Age 35	45GP - 24 goals, 18 assists, 42 points	82GP - 33 goals, 60 assists, 93 points
Age 36	77GP - 50 goals, 40 assist, 90 points	82GP - 42 goals, 52 assists, 94 points
Age 37	73GP - 42 goals, 33 assist, 75 Points	74GP - 27 goals, 55 assists, 82 points
Age 38	79GP - 31 goals, 34 assists, 65 Points	TBD
Age 39	60GP - 41 goals, 27 assists, 68 points	TBD

Compiled Stats

Alex Ovechkin	Sidney Crosby
726GP - 419G - 304A - 723Points - 1.00ppg	564GP - 237G - 414A - 651 Pts - 1.15 ppg

Top 10 Finishes

Top 10 Goal Finishes
Alex Ovechkin - 1, 1, 1, 1, 4, 9, + this year TBD
Sidney Crosby - none

Top 10 Point Finishes
Alex Ovechkin - none
Sidney Crosby - 5, 10, 10

Individual Awards

• Alex Ovechkin - has 1 Conn Smythe, 4 Rocket Richards, 1 First All Star Team and 1 Second All Star Team Nomination = 7 individual awards.
• Sidney Crosby - has 1 Second All Star Team, and 1 Hart Finalist Nomination

I'd say it's fair to say Ovechkin has accomplished more here on individual awards.

Championships

• Alex Ovechkin - 1 Stanley Cup, 2 Bronze Medals at World Championships
• Sidney Crosby - 1 4 Nations Cup

For me this debate is incredibly close and I lean towards Ovechkin having more success past age 30, but Crosby being the better player.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

As usual it's a toss up between these guys. Crosby's the more complete player but Ovechkin's goals can't be overlooked.

Do you like filet mignon or rib eye? Either way you win.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

As usual it's a toss up between these guys. Crosby's the more complete player but Ovechkin's goals can't be overlooked.

Do you like filet mignon or rib eye? Either way you win.

Now I want steak.

 

[lionsDen]

Co winners. I don’t care to split hairs what they’ve done is absolutely bonkers

 

[Fatass]

At what point do we stop the narrowing of evaluation: who was better in tournaments?
It’s the whole career that matters. And clearly Crosby’s is by far the better player. OV is the greatest goal scorer ever. And, seemingly, more likeable.

 

[Fire Sweeney]

Crosby has been a non factor in most of his 30s. Ovechkin always a threat except for a down year in 23-24

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

At what point do we stop the narrowing of evaluation: who was better in tournaments?
It’s the whole career that matters. And clearly Crosby’s is by far the better player. OV is the greatest goal scorer ever. And, seemingly, more likeable.

I don't get why anyone on either side of this debate says that one is 'by far the better player.' That's nonsense.

They are different players. But you can't overlook a guy who consistently wins Rockets. Goals are the single most valuable thing a player can contribute. Ovechkin is the most consistent, best goal scorer of all-time. That is a massive argument in his favour.

Want to take Crosby? Cool. Many reasons to do so. But I have no problem taking Ovechkin. Both are phenomenal talents.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

I don't get why anyone on either side of this debate that one is 'by far the better player.' That's nonsense.

They are different players. But you can't overlook a guy who consistently wins Rockets. Goals are the single most valuable thing a player can contribute. Ovechkin is the most consistent, best goal scorer of all-time. That is a massive argument in his favour.

Want to take Crosby? Cool. Many reasons to do so. But I have no problem taking Ovechkin. Both are phenomenal talents.

It took me some time as a moderator for this site back in the day to really appreciate how much people will really say stupid shit on this forum to get a rise out of others.

 

[JackSlater]

At none of their corresponding ages would I rather have had Ovechkin, so comfortably Crosby. Being a specialist rather than a more well rounded offensive threat doesn't give Ovechkin some kind of boost. That said, Ovechkin has had a tremendous decade in his 30s even in an all time sense. Crosby's has been better but Ovechkin's 30s have been better than those of some all time great players.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It took me some time as a moderator for this site back in the day to really appreciate how much people will really say stupid shit on this forum to get a rise out of others.

Sometimes it’s trolling. More often than not though people seem to think using terms like “it’s not even debatable” is an argument of its own. It isn’t. “You’re wrong” isn’t argument either.

Again, no issue with someone who wants to argue either side here. But if you’re going to argue a point, then bring in facts to back your position up. Both players have strong arguments for being best in their era.

Ovechkin’s goal numbers are unworldly. Breaking Gretzky’s record was unthinkable. One of the holiest of the holys. And OV reached 894 in one fewer game than Wayne Gretzky. …Wayne Gretzky. He did it in a lower scoring era too.

I don’t have an adequate superlative for this.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

I feel this question has to be asked. I think it's fair to say Crosby has more successful 20s, with his 3 cups, the golden goals, and the Conn smythe. However, I think that there is a genuine debate here for who's been better since turning 30.

Season By Season Points

Age	Alex Ovechkin	Sidney Crosby
Age 30	79GP - 50 goals, 21 assists, 71 points	82GP - 29 goals, 60 assists, 89 points
Age 31	82GP - 33 goals, 36 assists, 69 points	79GP - 35 goals, 65 assists, 100 points
Age 32	82GP - 49 goals, 38 points, 87 points	41GP - 16 goals, 31 assists, 47 points
Age 33	82GP - 51 goals, 38 assists, 89 points	55GP - 24 goals, 38 assists, 62 points
Age 34	68GP - 48 goals, 19 assists, 67 points	69GP - 31 goals, 53 assists, 84 points
Age 35	45GP - 24 goals, 18 assists, 42 points	82GP - 33 goals, 60 assists, 93 points
Age 36	77GP - 50 goals, 40 assist, 90 points	82GP - 42 goals, 52 assists, 94 points
Age 37	73GP - 42 goals, 33 assist, 75 Points	74GP - 27 goals, 55 assists, 82 points
Age 38	79GP - 31 goals, 34 assists, 65 Points	TBD
Age 39	60GP - 41 goals, 27 assists, 68 points	TBD

Compiled Stats

Alex Ovechkin	Sidney Crosby
726GP - 419G - 304A - 723Points - 1.00ppg	564GP - 237G - 414A - 651 Pts - 1.15 ppg

Top 10 Finishes

Top 10 Goal Finishes
Alex Ovechkin - 1, 1, 1, 1, 4, 9, + this year TBD
Sidney Crosby - none

Top 10 Point Finishes
Alex Ovechkin - none
Sidney Crosby - 5, 10, 10

Individual Awards

• Alex Ovechkin - has 1 Conn Smythe, 4 Rocket Richards, 1 First All Star Team and 1 Second All Star Team Nomination = 7 individual awards.
• Sidney Crosby - has 1 Second All Star Team, and 1 Hart Finalist Nomination

I'd say it's fair to say Ovechkin has accomplished more here on individual awards.

Championships

• Alex Ovechkin - 1 Stanley Cup, 2 Bronze Medals at World Championships
• Sidney Crosby - 1 4 Nations Cup

For me this debate is incredibly close and I lean towards Ovechkin having more success past age 30, but Crosby being the better player.

The problem with stats is that they don't take into account defensive play, which accounts for 50% of a player's skill level. Crosby is better in this area.

And since he has better offensive stats too—no debate. A playmaking, defensive center is much more impactful than a sharpshooter anyway.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

It’s clearly Crosby. It always comes down to the fact that Ovechkin had too many down seasons compared to Crosby to be ranked higher.

 

[Dominance]

I feel this question has to be asked. I think it's fair to say Crosby has more successful 20s, with his 3 cups, the golden goals, and the Conn smythe. However, I think that there is a genuine debate here for who's been better since turning 30.

Season By Season Points

Age	Alex Ovechkin	Sidney Crosby
Age 30	79GP - 50 goals, 21 assists, 71 points	82GP - 29 goals, 60 assists, 89 points
Age 31	82GP - 33 goals, 36 assists, 69 points	79GP - 35 goals, 65 assists, 100 points
Age 32	82GP - 49 goals, 38 points, 87 points	41GP - 16 goals, 31 assists, 47 points
Age 33	82GP - 51 goals, 38 assists, 89 points	55GP - 24 goals, 38 assists, 62 points
Age 34	68GP - 48 goals, 19 assists, 67 points	69GP - 31 goals, 53 assists, 84 points
Age 35	45GP - 24 goals, 18 assists, 42 points	82GP - 33 goals, 60 assists, 93 points
Age 36	77GP - 50 goals, 40 assist, 90 points	82GP - 42 goals, 52 assists, 94 points
Age 37	73GP - 42 goals, 33 assist, 75 Points	74GP - 27 goals, 55 assists, 82 points
Age 38	79GP - 31 goals, 34 assists, 65 Points	TBD
Age 39	60GP - 41 goals, 27 assists, 68 points	TBD

Compiled Stats

Alex Ovechkin	Sidney Crosby
726GP - 419G - 304A - 723Points - 1.00ppg	564GP - 237G - 414A - 651 Pts - 1.15 ppg

Top 10 Finishes

Top 10 Goal Finishes
Alex Ovechkin - 1, 1, 1, 1, 4, 9, + this year TBD
Sidney Crosby - none

Top 10 Point Finishes
Alex Ovechkin - none
Sidney Crosby - 5, 10, 10

Individual Awards

• Alex Ovechkin - has 1 Conn Smythe, 4 Rocket Richards, 1 First All Star Team and 1 Second All Star Team Nomination = 7 individual awards.
• Sidney Crosby - has 1 Second All Star Team, and 1 Hart Finalist Nomination

I'd say it's fair to say Ovechkin has accomplished more here on individual awards.

Championships

• Alex Ovechkin - 1 Stanley Cup, 2 Bronze Medals at World Championships
• Sidney Crosby - 1 4 Nations Cup

For me this debate is incredibly close and I lean towards Ovechkin having more success past age 30, but Crosby being the better player.

Incredibly generous accounting for Ovechkin. Over this same period, Ovi has become truly one of the most utterly useless (like, widely regarded as downright bad) players without the puck in the league, while Crosby has evolved into a widely highly regarded two-way player with significant Selke consideration and some of the better face-off stats in hockey. At the same time, Crosby has generated 15% more offence (while being less reliant on the powerplay, on which Ovi plays more than anyone else in the league by virtue of being completely uninvolved in zone entries or anything other than standing on top of a circle) and his per-game offensive production pushes beyond 33% greater than Ovi in the playoffs.

Ovi is the better goalscorer, in significant part due more to play style and shooting volume than particular skills. This has been true from Day 1 and Ovi has clearly held the title for greatest goalscorer of all time for at least the past 5 years. The Rockets mean little more than proving this point, which is the entirety of Ovi’s claim to fame, and mentioning the All-Star team nominations is seriously desperate given the positional competition. From age-30 onwards, Ovi has Hart trophy finishes of 7, 9, 10. Crosby already has 2, 4, 9 and is marching towards another lofty finish despite his defensive game suffering this season. As with every comparison between these two, Ovechkin has the goals, and Crosby has literally everything else, and only a heavily partisan <20% fail to recognize that Crosby is at least a good few hairs ahead in any assessment of better or greater player.

 

[cupface52]

The problem with stats is that they don't take into account defensive play, which accounts for 50% of a player's skill level. Crosby is better in this area.

And since he has better offensive stats too—no debate. A playmaking, defensive center is much more impactful than a sharpshooter anyway.

No, not at all a defensive center, it's like some folks want to see him as a Bergeron or Datsyuk, he's not even close defensively. Pure offensively, ya Crosby has been ahead.

Ovechkin's physical play is just as important as Crosby's "defense". Defensemen makes far more poor plays when Ovy is on the ice.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Sometimes it’s trolling. More often than not though people seem to think using terms like “it’s not even debatable” is an argument of its own. It isn’t. “You’re wrong” isn’t argument either.

Again, no issue with someone who wants to argue either side here. But if you’re going to argue a point, then bring in facts to back your position up. Both players have strong arguments for being best in their era.

Ovechkin’s goal numbers are unworldly. Breaking Gretzky’s record was unthinkable. One of the holiest of the holys. And OV reached 894 in one fewer game than Wayne Gretzky. …Wayne Gretzky. He did it in a lower scoring era too.

I don’t have an adequate superlative for this.

I once had a dream that Crosby and Ovechkin were traded for each other and the two fanbases challenged each other to a dance-off to determine the winner.

The shitposter in me loves the absurdity of that.

 

[Fatass]

I don't get why anyone on either side of this debate says that one is 'by far the better player.' That's nonsense.

They are different players. But you can't overlook a guy who consistently wins Rockets. Goals are the single most valuable thing a player can contribute. Ovechkin is the most consistent, best goal scorer of all-time. That is a massive argument in his favour.

Want to take Crosby? Cool. Many reasons to do so. But I have no problem taking Ovechkin. Both are phenomenal talents.

If choosing one of Crosby or OV obviously it’s going to be Crosby. That doesn’t deny OV’s greatness.

 

[Oilslick941611]

Such a random, narrow and arbitrary point to pick for comparison. There’s a reason comparisons aren’t done like this.


I’ll take the guy with 3 cups.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

If choosing one of Crosby or OV obviously it’s going to be Crosby. That doesn’t deny OV’s greatness.

Great argument. I’m convinced.

Such a random, narrow and arbitrary point to pick for comparison. There’s a reason comparisons aren’t done like this.


I’ll take the guy with 3 cups.

Yeah, I’ll take Gilbert Dionne over Marcel.

 

[zappa4ever]

oh piss off with this thread.

 

[Drew4u]

Crosby, but if Ovi wins the cup this year with a good playoff performance then Ovi.

But the stats don't lie, you can't ignore assists. He consistently outproduces him both in the reg season and playoffs.

Also, the timing of the thread is biased with the goal record.

 

[authentic]

Incredibly generous accounting for Ovechkin. Over this same period, Ovi has become truly one of the most utterly useless (like, widely regarded as downright bad) players without the puck in the league, while Crosby has evolved into a widely highly regarded two-way player with significant Selke consideration and some of the better face-off stats in hockey. At the same time, Crosby has generated 15% more offence (while being less reliant on the powerplay, on which Ovi plays more than anyone else in the league by virtue of being completely uninvolved in zone entries or anything other than standing on top of a circle) and his per-game offensive production pushes beyond 33% greater than Ovi in the playoffs.

Ovi is the better goalscorer, in significant part due more to play style and shooting volume than particular skills. This has been true from Day 1 and Ovi has clearly held the title for greatest goalscorer of all time for at least the past 5 years. The Rockets mean little more than proving this point, which is the entirety of Ovi’s claim to fame, and mentioning the All-Star team nominations is seriously desperate given the positional competition. From age-30 onwards, Ovi has Hart trophy finishes of 7, 9, 10. Crosby already has 2, 4, 9 and is marching towards another lofty finish despite his defensive game suffering this season. As with every comparison between these two, Ovechkin has the goals, and Crosby has literally everything else, and only a heavily partisan <20% fail to recognize that Crosby is at least a good few hairs ahead in any assessment of better or greater player.

This is ultimately what it boils down to for me as well. Watch these two in the playoffs since turning 30 it’s a night and day difference. Not even comparable players if we’re being honest.

If I didn’t know anything about these two players and just looked at their regular season stats, I would probably lean towards Ovechkin especially considering he’s about to break Gretzky’s record. But then you watch them play and it’s not even a conversation.

 

[filinski77]

Incredibly generous accounting for Ovechkin. Over this same period, Ovi has become truly one of the most utterly useless (like, widely regarded as downright bad) players without the puck in the league, while Crosby has evolved into a widely highly regarded two-way player with significant Selke consideration and some of the better face-off stats in hockey. At the same time, Crosby has generated 15% more offence (while being less reliant on the powerplay, on which Ovi plays more than anyone else in the league by virtue of being completely uninvolved in zone entries or anything other than standing on top of a circle) and his per-game offensive production pushes beyond 33% greater than Ovi in the playoffs.

Ovi is the better goalscorer, in significant part due more to play style and shooting volume than particular skills. This has been true from Day 1 and Ovi has clearly held the title for greatest goalscorer of all time for at least the past 5 years. The Rockets mean little more than proving this point, which is the entirety of Ovi’s claim to fame, and mentioning the All-Star team nominations is seriously desperate given the positional competition. From age-30 onwards, Ovi has Hart trophy finishes of 7, 9, 10. Crosby already has 2, 4, 9 and is marching towards another lofty finish despite his defensive game suffering this season. As with every comparison between these two, Ovechkin has the goals, and Crosby has literally everything else, and only a heavily partisan <20% fail to recognize that Crosby is at least a good few hairs ahead in any assessment of better or greater player.

Holy shit the bias/hate here is insane.

"Over this same period, Ovi has become truly one of the most utterly useless (like, widely regarded as downright bad) players without the puck in the league, while Crosby has evolved into a widely highly regarded two-way player with significant Selke consideration and some of the better face-off stats in hockey."
Crosby has not been a widely regarded 2-way player, and has not received significant Selke consideration. Outside of 2019 he has either gotten no Selke recognition, or gotten a handful of throwaway votes. But he has never been anywhere close to a Selke-level player. And in recent years he has been downright bad on the defensive side.

Yeah, Crosby is good at faceoffs, but we're talking about maybe the 25th best in the league since 2018. So nothing to write home about.

"The Rockets mean little more than proving this point, which is the entirety of Ovi’s claim to fame,"
The Rockets represent play. Silly comment

"Crosby has generated 15% more offence (while being less reliant on the powerplay,"
Crosby has been equally reliant on the powerplay as Ovi. In their 30's, 32% of Crosby's points are powerplay, and for Ovi it's 34%.

"his per-game offensive production pushes beyond 33% greater than Ovi in the playoffs."
From ages 30-37 for both players, Crosby has no real big advantage in playoffs. More than doubling the sample size, Ovi's goal/gp is slightly higher, Crosbys's point/gp slightly higher.

"Ovi is the better goalscorer, in significant part due more to play style and shooting volume than particular skills."
This is just a backhanded comment to degrade Ovi. You don't understand that the point of the game is to get shots on net and to score goals then clearly. Shots on net aren't a bad thing.

"From age-30 onwards, Ovi has Hart trophy finishes of 7, 9, 10. Crosby already has 2, 4, 9 and is marching towards another lofty finish despite his defensive game suffering this season."
A) So you're telling me there is almost no difference between Hart finishes in their 30's
B) Crosby should be nowhere near a "lofty finish" this year. The guy is 12th in points and 44th in goals, and has some of the absolute worst defensive metrics in the league. He's having a great year for a 37 year-old don't get me wrong, but not a top-10 player.

 

[Golden_Jet]

OV for 30+

 

[filinski77]

I'd say it's about even at this point. If you compare age vs. age, Through 37 I have them even with 3 advantages each, and 2 ties. Crosby should have the better 38 year-old season next year, and pretty unlikely to have a better 39 year-old season (but not impossible for a player of Sid's calibre).

Honestly kind of amazing when it's broken down this way and you can see how dominant these guys have been in their 30's despite it being a young-mans game.

 

[Fatass]

Great argument. I’m convinced.


Yeah, I’ll take Gilbert Dionne over Marcel.

At what point do we stop narrowing the focus of comparison? It’s the entire career of the greatest players that ranks them. And one of the best ways to rank them within their tier of greatest players is by leading clubs to Cups. Not just winning a Cup, but being an important piece of the winning. Lots of guys have more than one Cup. But the vast majority of those players aren’t ranked in the same tier of greatness as Crosby and OV. So they don’t matter in this comparison.
Dionne was a fabulous player and many would place him in the tier with some of the greatest. But he would (imo) get put at the bottom of that tier because of his not leading a club to the Cup.
OV led the Capitals to a Cup and is the greatest goal scorer ever. He’s certainly placed into an upper tier of the greatest. But (imo) Crosby is higher in that tier.