Better career: Connor Bedard or Tim Stützle?

[jbeck5]

Id argue Tavares lived up to his draft hype but the team he was on was cause for the lack of numbers youd expect, plus he played during a low scoring time vs now

His best linemates were Kyle Okposo and Josh Bailey

I was actually going to name Tavares as an example too.

Linemates is a poor excuse if you're THAT good. Crosby has had grinders most of his career while still putting 100 point paces.

Friggin Yashin put up 94 points with second on his team getting 56.

If Tavares panned out like he was supposed to, he would put up 100 point paces with second liner linemates.

 

[Voight]

The results of this poll are really interesting. As of this post the "probably Bedard" and "definitely Bedard" categories are dead even, with the other three options having negligible support. So nearly everyone's certain that Bedard should be the better player, but there's a dead-even split on the matter of probability vs inevitability.

With prospects its never good to say they will 100% be better. Yea, you get ones like Ovy/Sid/McDavid that look like there is no way they will fail but as they say, the only for sure thins in life is death & taxes.

Bedard will likely be better, but I have a hard time saying its a 100% lock when hes played as many NHL games as me.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

why

 

[DomBarr]

I only felt comfortable voting probably Bedard mainly because because he hasn't even been drafted yet

 

[Favin]

why

Just curious how a top undrafted prospect compares to a young NHL player. Bird-in-hand vs Bedard-in-the-bush type of thing.

Could have asked different ways too.

1. Generically, such as, "would you rather have a 20-year old point-per-game center already in NHL or the top pick in next year's draft?"

2. Or ordering, such as, "which of these NHL players would you trade one-for-one for the first pick in next year's draft?" (then list a bunch of guys).

 

[sennysensen]

deleted

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I was actually going to name Tavares as an example too.

Linemates is a poor excuse if you're THAT good. Crosby has had grinders most of his career while still putting 100 point paces.

Friggin Yashin put up 94 points with second on his team getting 56.

If Tavares panned out like he was supposed to, he would put up 100 point paces with second liner linemates.

Not to mention the fact Tavares got to play with an elite linemate his first year in Toronto and he still only managed 88 points. This notion that he would have been a perennial Art Ross threat if only he had good linemates is one of the dumbest narratives about Tavares on HF.

So no, he didn't live up to the hype because at the time leading up to his draft (age 16-18) he was talked about as the next Crosby. He didn't come close to being that.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Players like Bedard are cant miss and usually near perfect prospects

I get being safe but saying definitely Bedard and then injuries derailing him isnt that bad. If no injuries, Bedard WILL be a top-10 NHL forward at minimum

I don't think he's at the Crosby/McDavid level. His numbers are worse, he's really small, and from watching him he's a great goal scorer but seems a bit more one dimensional than those two.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Bedard.

Though I think very highly of Stutzle. He could be MacKinnon to Bedard’s McDavid.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Not much apples-to-apples to go by at this point, but whats your best guess at who ends up with better overall career?

1.) Connor Bedard - the presumptive #1 overall pick in 2023
2.) Tim Stützle - young forward for Ottawa Senators

Unless something significant happens in his development then Bedard should have a healthy lead over Stutzle over his career

 

[nbwingsfan]

Not to mention the fact Tavares got to play with an elite linemate his first year in Toronto and he still only managed 88 points. This notion that he would have been a perennial Art Ross threat if only he had good linemates is one of the dumbest narratives about Tavares on HF.

So no, he didn't live up to the hype because at the time leading up to his draft (age 16-18) he was talked about as the next Crosby. He didn't come close to being that.

He was really only talked about like that after his 16 year old season. His 17/18 year old seasons were a bit of a disappointment as he seemed to stall and there was even talks of him not going 1st overall

 

[Love]

Bedard today and forever over Stutzle

 

[nbwingsfan]

I don't think he's at the Crosby/McDavid level. His numbers are worse, he's really small, and from watching him he's a great goal scorer but seems a bit more one dimensional than those two.

His numbers at 15/16 were better than McDavid and we was much better in the WJC as a double underaged player than McDavid as well.

Crosby was a different level at 16/17 but those were quite different leagues back then too.

 

[jigglysquishy]

His numbers at 15/16 were better than McDavid and we was much better in the WJC as a double underaged player than McDavid as well.

Crosby was a different level at 16/17 but those were quite different leagues back then too.

The Q is typically the weakest of the 3 CHL leagues, even more so in 2005.

Bedard is playing on by far the worst team of the 3.

Crosby looked the most physically and mentally developed at 16.

McDavid's speed was (and is) otherworldly and made it hard to know how it would translate to the NHL.

All three were close going into their draft years. 3 best Canadian 17 year olds since Lindros.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

I don't think he's at the Crosby/McDavid level. His numbers are worse, he's really small, and from watching him he's a great goal scorer but seems a bit more one dimensional than those two.

His stats are incredible, what do you mean? At every level where hes played bigger, older competiton hes dominated and at 16 put up 100. McDavid put up 99 in a few less games yet was bigger

Hes small and producing like a near-McDavid level talent. This year if he falls off then fine but hes currently about 2ppg so let the season play out first

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

I was actually going to name Tavares as an example too.

Linemates is a poor excuse if you're THAT good. Crosby has had grinders most of his career while still putting 100 point paces.

Friggin Yashin put up 94 points with second on his team getting 56.

If Tavares panned out like he was supposed to, he would put up 100 point paces with second liner linemates.

I get your point but you gotta have context if were going to do that

Tavares at 18 led his team in points, 19 was 29th in points league-wide, and by 21 was top-10.

If the hype for him was Crosby level then sure he didnt live up to that. But that comes across more as media hype and less about the actual prospect, who was never near as good a skater as Crosby or McDavid or Ovechkin. His junior numbers are all-time but that can be played to the lack of skating not being an issue to be #1 in the league then

Also with Tavares he was continually a top-15 producer as the game was going more toward finesse skating and speed, which did not play into his skillset; not even at 18. Tavares was a 2000 grinder's gift from God who showed up just too late and was left behind. If he showed up in 2005 with Crosby I dont doubt hed have had a higher producing career, though wouldnt have ever reached Crosby level either so again if thats the hype then he didnt meet it. Though if you asked me do I think a Tavares in 2008 with better linemates than Crosby could out produce him for a few seasons? Yeah I do

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

This is like asking who will be better McDavid or Huberdeau in 2015 - obviously both have start potential and the latter is more proven but, cmon

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

This is like asking who will be better McDavid or Huberdeau in 2015 - obviously both have start potential and the latter is more proven but, cmon

I don't think Bedard is on McDavid's level as a prospect, despite his numbers. McDavid's world class skating just made him a better overall prospect. I think Bedard is closer to a Matthews level prospect, with a similar caliber shot, but smaller and shiftier.

Also, Stutzle is a center with a more impressive 19 year old season than Huberdeau. He's getting severely underrated in this poll IMO. He was nearly a point per game player in the back half of the season once he was moved to center. I think he compares pretty well to Nathan MacKinnon at the same age.

So I see it more like comparing Nathan MacKinnon to Auston Matthews in 2015-16. 4 year age difference, both centers, and stylistically similar to their comps. I think most would have still taken Matthews, but it wouldn't be crazy to imagine MacKinnon reaching similar levels (Mack was coming off a few down years, you'll recall).

 

[Rengorlex]

Also, Stutzle is a center with a more impressive 19 year old season than Huberdeau. He's getting severely underrated in this poll IMO. He was nearly a point per game player in the back half of the season once he was moved to center. I think he compares pretty well to Nathan MacKinnon at the same age.

The production in the 2nd half came mostly on PP. His 5vs5 production didn't increase.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I don't think Bedard is on McDavid's level as a prospect, despite his numbers. McDavid's world class skating just made him a better overall prospect. I think Bedard is closer to a Matthews level prospect, with a similar caliber shot, but smaller and shiftier.

Also, Stutzle is a center with a more impressive 19 year old season than Huberdeau. He's getting severely underrated in this poll IMO. He was nearly a point per game player in the back half of the season once he was moved to center. I think he compares pretty well to Nathan MacKinnon at the same age.

So I see it more like comparing Nathan MacKinnon to Auston Matthews in 2015-16. 4 year age difference, both centers, and stylistically similar to their comps. I think most would have still taken Matthews, but it wouldn't be crazy to imagine MacKinnon reaching similar levels (Mack was coming off a few down years, you'll recall).

I don't see why anyone wants to put these expectations on Stützle. You're basically saying comparing him to a #3OA pick who just had a 115 point season is "severely underrating" him, and he should instead only be compared to wildly successful #1OA picks.

 

[Evergreen]

I think Stuetzle is going to have a big season, but Bedard will be the better player hands down.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

The production in the 2nd half came mostly on PP. His 5vs5 production didn't increase.

His 5v5 production increased 10-15%, but he was visibly playing with a lot more confidence and started taking over games.

I don't see why anyone wants to put these expectations on Stützle. You're basically saying comparing him to a #3OA pick who just had a 115 point season is "severely underrating" him, and he should instead only be compared to wildly successful #1OA picks.

Where did I say comparing him to Huberdeau was underrating him? My comment that he is being generally underrated in this thread had nothing to do with the Huberdeau comparison. I didn't like the Huberdeau comparison because (1) they don't even play the same position (nevermind the fact that they are completely different players stylistically) and (2) at the age of 19, Stutzle was ahead of Huberdeau.

At the same stage in their careers, Stutzle and Mackinnon were quite similar. After his great 18 year old season, it took Mackinnon 4 seasons before he topped the 58 points that Stutzle scored this year. I'm not saying that Stutzle will become as good as Mackinnon, but he's obviously got elite potential, just like Mackinnon did. There were some seriously big question marks around Mackinnon after his 19 year old season, but ultimately he lived up to his potential. Stutzle may or may not.

Regarding draft position, its not like it really matters, but Stutzle would be the clear favorite to go 1st in a 2020 redraft, so it's not like comparing him to a former 1OA is unwarranted.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Voted bedard so the stutzle threads can stop

 

[NyQuil]

Voted bedard so the stutzle threads can stop

You and 94.5% people who voted for Bedard.

I'm not sure why this poll is still open.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

You and 94.5% people who voted for Bedard.

I'm not sure why this poll is still open.

Love stutzle dont get me wrong lol