Better All-Time: Peter Forsberg Or Evgeni Malkin?

[bobholly39]

Malkin for peak, prime and career.

That's probably true. However, flipside is;

Forsberg has better playoffs (Malkin's 2009 run may be the single best between the 2, but overall playoff resume slight edge Forsberg)
Forsberg is better internationally
Forsberg's "lows" are better than Malkin - ie he was more consistent with less down years/stretches, whereas Malkin had down years

I probably have Malkin ahead overall too, but they're very close

 

[mattihp]

Had Forsberg not been so reluctant to shoot during his best season, this would be his. With the luxury of hindsight.. Malkin is the better player.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

I think it's easier to compare both of these players to Jagr.

I tend to think that Jagr was much better than Forsberg but with Malkin it gets a bit murkier who I think was better between the two.

Malkin > Foppa

 

[63 others]

I made a thread the other day pointing out Makin’s 15th PPG season, which is tied for like 3rd or 4th all time. Did Forsberg even play 15 seasons?

Better player is arguable, better career isn’t. It’s Malkin.

DPE?

 

[Midnight Judges]

Even if you think Forsberg was marginally better, Malkin has contributed a boat load more to his team.

 

[Sheppy]

Malkin had the better career. Forsberg was a better player, imo.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

very close but have to go with Malkin

 

[Albatros]

Even if you think Forsberg was marginally better, Malkin has contributed a boat load more to his team.

Forsberg's arrival started the longest streak of division titles in NHL history (9) for Québec/Colorado. Without him they only won two other times in franchise history before their most recent success now in the 2020s. Malkin has one more cup, but therefore Forsberg has way more international success.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Forsberg's arrival started the longest streak of division titles in NHL history (9) for Québec/Colorado. Without him they only won two other times in franchise history before their most recent success now in the 2020s. Malkin has one more cup, but therefore Forsberg has way more international success.

Indeed, they finished first place in their division in a season where Forsberg didn't even play (2001-2002) and they won the final two rounds of a cup without him.

But yeah surely their success was all because of him.

I'm not saying he wasn't great, but I think you are stretching things here a bit to attribute team success to one player when the team was obviously excellent even without him. And that's not a knock on him - no one player has ever carried a team.

 

[Albatros]

Indeed, they finished first place in their division in a season where Forsberg didn't even play (2001-2002) and they won the final two rounds of a cup without him.

But yeah surely their success was all because of him.

In 2001/02 Forsberg returned for the playoffs and scored league-leading 27 points (+8) in 20 games. Including again league-leading four game-winning goals. Joe Sakic scored 19 in 21 (-2) and Alex Tanguay 13 in 19 (-8). Forsberg was easily the most important player of that team as well. Without him in the regular season they dropped from 118 points to 99, still a decent team but nowhere near the powerhouse they always were with Forsberg.

The season before they wouldn't even have made it past the Kings never mind win the cup without him, and he played the final few games with an extremely serious injury.

 

[GMR]

Malkin has the better peak, better prime, and better longevity.

Pretty clear cut imo

Forsberg had the higher peak. His career PPG was quite high in his prime compared to all-time players just below Wayne and Mario.

Malkin has the better longevity for sure. Prime is tied to longevity because Malkin’s lasted longer.

 

[blundluntman]

I ranked Malkin’s peak over Forsberg’s in the 2nd line centers thread but I have to recant that statement, at least as far as the regular season goes. Forsberg had a great offensive peak but was also a 2 way beast which I’d say gives him the edge over Malkin on a game to game basis.

Playoffs wise, it’s Forsberg’s 02 postseason vs Malkin’s 09 conn smythe. I give Malkin the edge there (although it’s closer than some are willing to admit).

Longevity wise it’s definitely Malkin and hardware wise he’s slightly above Forsberg with an extra art ross and the smythe.

I honestly think it’s at least a coin toss between them on a game to game basis, I might even lean towards Forsberg if I had to be honest. But all things considered, Malkin has a better case concerning all time rankings. You can argue Peter would’ve ranked higher if not for injuries but hypotheticals don’t matter at the of the day.

 

[authentic]

I think it's easier to compare both of these players to Jagr.

I tend to think that Jagr was much better than Forsberg but with Malkin it gets a bit murkier who I think was better between the two.

Malkin > Foppa

Much healthier*

 

[Midnight Judges]

Forsberg had the higher peak. His career PPG was quite high in his prime compared to all-time players just below Wayne and Mario.

Malkin has the better longevity for sure. Prime is tied to longevity because Malkin’s lasted longer.

The record doesn't show Forsberg having a higher peak. And of course his career PPG is high - he barely played after age 30.

Malkin won a Hart and a Pearson at the same time, whereas the 1 and only time Forsberg was a Hart winner, the players didn't agree and didn't think he was the best player. They chose Marcus Naslund instead.

Malkin was also a Hart finalist 2 other times whereas Forsberg was otherwise never particularly close.

During Forsberg's best career stretch (from '95 to '03) he was bested in PPG by Jagr, and equalled by Sakic while Sakic was a superior goal scorer. Forsberg was 4th in points and 37th in goals during this span.

Even if we only look at Forsberg's best season, he won the Art Ross by 2 points. His PPG lead was .1 over Joe Thornton except Thornton was a better goal scorer on a worse team. Forsberg was in a Kucherov-like position of being on a great team.

Malkin, by comparison, had a .24 PPG lead in his best season, while also scoring 50 goals. Both the media and the players thought he was the best player.

So where is the rationale that Forsberg had a higher peak?

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Much healthier*

Jagr was way better and way healthier than Forsberg.

 

[TheStatican]

Forsberg's arrival started the longest streak of division titles in NHL history (9) for Québec/Colorado. Without him they only won two other times in franchise history before their most recent success now in the 2020s. Malkin has one more cup, but therefore Forsberg has way more international success.

And Malkin's arrival heralded by far the longest playoff streak in the cap era, double the next best team. They went from 58 points to 105 in Malkin's rookie season and from then on they didn't miss the playoffs for 16 years.

Yes internationally Forsberg has those olympic golds but Russia has always been a complete cluster-**** in the olympics, hardily Malkin's fault. Forsberg didn't exactly stand out in the olympic games which occurred during his prime, 5pt in 4 gms with 5th place finish in '98 while Malkin had 6 in 4 with a 6th place finish in '10. Forsberg had that incredible world junior tournament but I don't see much value in compared how they did in the junior's long before they reached their peaks. Malkin's the one who had the singular best international performance when they were at their best with a dominate MVP run claiming gold in the WC in '12 ahead of Forsberg's WC gold run of '98.

Malkin also had basically the best khl season in history setting the ppg record. B-tier league to be sure, but that year the league was flooded with NHL talent from the lockout and he was by far the most productive of them and ended up posting better numbers than the likes of Jagr, Kovalchuk, Yashin or Demitra did in any season they had over there.

	Gms	G	Pts	ppg
Malkin	37	23	65	1.76
Kovalchuk	36	18	42	1.17
Kuznetsov	51	19	44	0.86
Ovechkin	31	19	40	1.29
Dadonov	52	14	37	0.71
Datsyuk	31	11	36	1.16
Tarasenko	31	14	31	1.00
Bäckström	19	10	25	1.31
Pavelski	17	7	14	0.82
Semin	20	7	16	0.80

 

[GMR]

The record doesn't show Forsberg having a higher peak. And of course his career PPG is high - he barely played after age 30.

Malkin won a Hart and a Pearson at the same time, whereas the 1 and only time Forsberg was a Hart winner, the players didn't agree and didn't think he was the best player. They chose Marcus Naslund instead.

Malkin was also a Hart finalist 2 other times whereas Forsberg was otherwise never particularly close.

During Forsberg's best career stretch (from '95 to '03) he was bested in PPG by Jagr, and equalled by Sakic while Sakic was a superior goal scorer. Forsberg was 4th in points and 37th in goals during this span.

Even if we only look at Forsberg's best season, he won the Art Ross by 2 points. His PPG lead was .1 over Joe Thornton except Thornton was a better goal scorer on a worse team. Forsberg was in a Kucherov-like position of being on a great team.

Malkin, by comparison, had a .24 PPG lead in his best season, while also scoring 50 goals. Both the media and the players thought he was the best player.

So where is the rationale that Forsberg had a higher peak?

Forsberg's peak was likely before 2003. He had three top-five scoring finishes in 1996, 1998, and 1999. He was injured much of 1997 and 2000 Remember, this was the DPE, so overall scoring was low (other than 1996). That said, his two-way peak likely came several years after this.

Jagr would be ranked above Malkin also. So would Sakic. It's not a knock on Forsberg's resume to say he was outscored by one or overshadowed by the other. Malkin was overshadowed by Crosby and Ovechkin most of his career.

Yes, Malkin has better Hart voting than Forsberg, but not significantly more. We're not comparing Forsberg to McDavid.

You're right that Forsberg didn't play much past age 30, but he outscored Malkin before they each turned 30 (1.26 PPG versus 1.18 PPG). The playoff PPG would be even higher (1.17 PPG versus 1.04 PPG). This happened during an era without a two-line pass and boring defensive systems.

That's the rationale for the rankings. Forsberg was a better scorer at his peak, in a more defensive era, and was a better two-way player.

There's certainly a great argument to be made for Malkin. You made much of it. Plus, he was a more dangerous goal scorer.

 

[authentic]

Jagr was way better and way healthier than Forsberg.

Yeah that's not true at all

 

[authentic]

Come to think of it you could choose Malkin, Jagr or Forsberg at their peaks and you could argue that other than health neither one of these players would make your team any better than the other. They were virtually identical caliber of players on a per game basis

 

[GMR]

Come to think of it you could choose Malkin, Jagr or Forsberg at their peaks and you could argue that other than health neither one of these players would make your team any better than the other. They were virtually identical caliber of players on a per game basis

No way.

Jagr was a MUCH better offensive player with higher scoring finishes, postseason awards, etc. There's little argument for Forsberg or Malkin over him. It's not Jagr's fault that his peak came during an era where the Penguins made dumb roster decisions, and lacked in both defense and goaltending. Meanwhile, Forsberg and Malkin had their peaks for two of the most successful franchises during the last 30 years.

 

[dirtydanglez]

forsberg in the non clutch and grab nhl would blow the doors off malkin.

 

[authentic]

No way.

Jagr was a MUCH better offensive player with higher scoring finishes, postseason awards, etc. There's little argument for Forsberg or Malkin over him. It's not Jagr's fault that his peak came during an era where the Penguins made dumb roster decisions, and lacked in both defense and goaltending. Meanwhile, Forsberg and Malkin had their peaks for two of the most successful franchises during the last 30 years.

This has nothing to do with how well their teams performed. Jagr was an offense only winger who played up to 5 minutes more per game than Forsberg in his prime, the entire play ran through him and he produced accordingly, and yes of course he was still firmly the better offensive player. Forsberg brought an amazing two-way game and grit for roughly 20 minutes and produced at an amazing rate when he was the go to offensive threat on his team, but still just averaging over 19 minutes of ice time. If you had these two face off in their primes on equal teams are we supposed to believe Jagr dominates Forsberg, or that he brings more value to a team in a healthy Forsberg season? I'd be willing to bet any money neither of those are true.

Just to clarify, choosing Jagr over Forsberg due to health is a no brainer, but otherwise I'd feel comfortable with Forsberg or peak Malkin on my team over Jagr at his best, but wouldn't lose sleep with Jagr either.

 

[GMR]

This has nothing to do with how well their teams performed. Jagr was an offense only winger who played up to 5 minutes more per game than Forsberg in his prime, the entire play ran through him and he produced accordingly, and yes of course he was still firmly the better offensive player. Forsberg brought an amazing two-way game and grit for roughly 20 minutes and produced at an amazing rate when he was the go to offensive threat on his team, but still just averaging over 19 minutes of ice time. If you had these two face off in their primes on equal teams are we supposed to believe Jagr dominates Forsberg, or that he brings more value to a team in a healthy Forsberg season? I'd be willing to bet any money neither of those are true.

Just to clarify, choosing Jagr over Forsberg due to health is a no brainer, but otherwise I'd feel comfortable with Forsberg or peak Malkin on my team over Jagr at his best, but wouldn't lose sleep with Jagr either.

I think with everything else equal, Jagr would be a better choice than either Forsberg or Malkin if I'm either starting a franchise or wanting a superstar to join an already strong team.

 

[SillyRabbit]

I’m just glad this poll is so close, it shows respect to just how good both these players were.

Dominant, elite centres who often took over the game, and could deliver when the stakes were the highest.

 

[Hippasus]

I think it's easier to compare both of these players to Jagr.

I tend to think that Jagr was much better than Forsberg but with Malkin it gets a bit murkier who I think was better between the two.

Malkin > Foppa

I think with the thread title and OP, we're talking about career rather than peak. Jagr certainly had the better career than Malkin has had so far.