Best sniper + playmaker combination in one player

[SI90]

Hate to say it but it feels like it’s Kucherov. I’d have Draisaitl as 1A 1B with him.

 

[MessierII]

It’s Draisaitl today

Hate to say it but it feels like it’s Kucherov. I’d have Draisaitl as 1A 1B with him.

Kucherov has never scored 50 goals

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

It’s Draisaitl today


Kucherov has never scored 50 goals

Draisaitl is the better sniper. Kucherov is the better playmaker.

 

[SI90]

It’s Draisaitl today


Kucherov has never scored 50 goals

It’s sniper + playmaker.

Draisaitl has never had more than 80 assists. Kucherov has done it 3 times with one season getting 100 assists.

Both are elite enough in both areas to be considered the best Sniper + playmaker.

Leon slightly better sniper and Kucherov slightly better playmaker.

 

[Senor Catface]

Im not downplaying him at all. Im pointing out that he isnt a "sniper". He is an A+ finisher, especially from his office with whoever feeding him in his wheelhouse.

Here is the 23-24 goals (couldnt find this season all in one video). Only 1-2 I would say is a "snipe" and one was a backhand lol.



Here is a video of snipers. Draisaitl I would say is the best backhand passer in the league and one of the top playmakers, top finishers, and top one timers. A sniper though, no.

Here is a video of snipes and I hope its clear that Draisitl is not that guy. Every guy here who plays hockey will agree with me.

every guy who plays lol

 

[MessierII]

It’s sniper + playmaker.

Draisaitl has never had more than 80 assists. Kucherov has done it 3 times with one season getting 100 assists.

Both are elite enough in both areas to be considered the best Sniper + playmaker.

Leon slightly better sniper and Kucherov slightly better playmaker.

How many active players have had 80 assists? Kucherov is top 3 playmakers maybe even top 2 but he’s not even a top 10 in goal scoring. Draisaitl has had 50-50 seasons though multiple times. Only active player to have 3 outside Ovy. He’s top 5 in both.

 

[benfranklin]

Thanks for sharing those vids. I'll definitely take a look at my leisure. The Draisaitl video likely doesn't showcase his best attributes as the previous season was considered a "down year" for him with only 40 goals.

I guess it depends upon your interpretation of the word "sniper." I interpret the word more generally to mean a goal scorer rather than referring to a specific type of goal: snap shot, slap shot, or wrist shot. That being said, I do understand your meaning.

Exactly. Ask any player what a snipe is and they will tell you the top corners, bar down being a bonus.

Even actual snipers, they literally look through crosshairs and have hit a tiny target with extreme accuracy, from long distance. Draisaitl is a goal scorer and the vast majority are one timers, similar to Ovechkin. Same with McDavid and a lot of great players, they are insane goal scorers, but "snipers" are a different breed.

every guy who plays lol

Yes anyone who has player organized hockey at more than a beer league level will agree with me 100% on what a snipers is. Its not really a debate amongst players.

 

[MessierII]

vast majority are one timers, similar to Ovechkin. Same with McDavid and a lot of great players, they are insane goal scorers, but "snipers" are a different breed.

So your saying ovy isnt a sniper?

That’s a take

 

[benfranklin]

So your saying ovy isnt a sniper?

That’s a take

Yes I am saying that. He is the greatest goal scorer of all time, but Semin was more of a "sniper" than AO. Im not saying the skill isnt there and I would also argue goal scorers score more goals because they arent aiming for the top corners every shot, but they arent the pretty snipes.

Please watch this video any disagree with me on a what a "snipe" is. There is a massive difference between a sniper and a goal scorer IMO.

 

[benfranklin]

This is the definition of a snipe. Draisaitl can rip 60 one timers into gaping nets with not a single one being a "snipe".

Change the title to best goal scorer and playmaker and Ill concede immediately.

 

[Turin]

Crosby in 2010.

 

[MessierII]

Yes I am saying that. He is the greatest goal scorer of all time, but Semin was more of a "sniper" than AO. Im not saying the skill isnt there and I would also argue goal scorers score more goals because they arent aiming for the top corners every shot, but they arent the pretty snipes.

Please watch this video any disagree with me on a what a "snipe" is. There is a massive difference between a sniper and a goal scorer IMO.

I do disagree. A sniper to me is a one shot goal scorer who can beat goalies from different areas including distance. Not how pretty the shot looked.

 

[Coffee]

10 YEAR OLD THREAD

 

[benfranklin]

I do disagree. A sniper to me is a one shot goal scorer who can beat goalies from different areas including distance. Not how pretty the shot looked.

Fair enough. I disagree, but Ill go off your definition, so then who is your modern day sniper? Because by that definition is not Draisaitl. Here are 8 relevant heat maps. By your definition, Draisaitl would be the 2nd worst behind Reinhart only here for lack of variety and distance. He scores from his office or in the slot 90% of the time.

Others, one being McDavid show the variety from all over the zone.

 

[qc14]

Yes I am saying that. He is the greatest goal scorer of all time, but Semin was more of a "sniper" than AO. Im not saying the skill isnt there and I would also argue goal scorers score more goals because they arent aiming for the top corners every shot, but they arent the pretty snipes.

Please watch this video any disagree with me on a what a "snipe" is. There is a massive difference between a sniper and a goal scorer IMO.

I totally agree with you, also an excuse to post one of my all time favorite highlights of Semin skating in full speed and blasting a slapshot from the hashmarks on a penalty shot.

 

[benfranklin]

I totally agree with you, also an excuse to post one of my all time favorite highlights of Semin skating in full speed and blasting a slapshot from the hashmarks on a penalty shot.

Semin was an unreal talent.

 

[Ghost of Murph]

Prime Malkin was the best combo of his generation.

A guy who is turning into a good combo is Pastrnak. I mention him because he has mainly been thought of as a sniper most of his career, but has improved his playmaking a ton over the past two seasons. Had a slow start to the season and doesn't have a lot to work with on his roster, but damn has he developed into an excellent playmaker. His assist numbers would be sick this season if the buffoons he sets up for easy goals didn't muff them so much. Someone to keep an eye on going forward in respect to this topic.

 

[Bocephus86]

I only scrolled by briefly but Pasta needs to be mentioned as a runner up. He might actually be a better passer / playmaker than a sniper, and he's a damn good sniper.

 

[MessierII]

Fair enough. I disagree, but Ill go off your definition, so then who is your modern day sniper? Because by that definition is not Draisaitl. Here are 8 relevant heat maps. By your definition, Draisaitl would be the 2nd worst behind Reinhart only here for lack of variety and distance. He scores from his office or in the slot 90% of the time.

Others, one being McDavid show the variety from all over the zone.

Guys who do this are snipers

 

[Gerulaitis]

Ovechkin

Scores a lot. Had 3 assists in the previous game

 

[Miri]

Haha, classic thread, where people cant even agree what “sniper” means, nevertheless on actual names. But i get it, its fun.
That said, all those AINEC posts are totally braindead, when its clearly always group of players who would fit the category, regardless of its definition.

 

[RiverbottomChuck]

Pasta

 

[benfranklin]

Guys who do this are snipers

Still not a single one of those are "snipes". That is simply hitting a difficult angle. A sniper from the military definition is hitting a small target from long distance. Hockey terms, every player ever who has played at a reasonable skill level knows that is bar down top cheese where mama hides the cookies busted water bottle shots and even better if its you vs the goalie 1v1 instead of a screen or one timer.

Again, watch on repeat so everyone here knows what a true snipe is. A goal is not a snipe simply because it went in the net.



But since people cant understand nor agree on a definition, ill do throw some numbers at you all to help us determine it. This is best goal scorer+playmaker aka G+A so we have something quantitative to go off of.

50G + 100A
Only 15 times have 100+ assists happened, Wayne and Mario are the only ones to put 50+ goals up with 100+ assists.

50G + 90A
92-93 Lafontaine 53+95
88-89 Yzerman 65+90

50G + 85A
23-24 MacKinnon 51+89
22-23 McDavid 64+89
95-96 Jagr 62+87

50G+80A
79-80 Dionne 53+84
81-82 Bossy 64+83
76-77 Lafleur 56+80
88-89 Nicholls 70+80

50G+75A
81-82 Trottier 50+79
92-93 Yzerman 58+79
78-79 Lafleur 52+77
84-85 Hawerchuk 53+77
73-74 Esposito 68+77
22-23 Draisaitl 52+76
81-82 Maruk 60+76
70-71 Esposito 76+76
79-80 Lafleur 50+75
72+73 Esposito 55+75

So there you go. Only recent big boys in our current game are McDavid and MacKinnon. Draisaitl if you stretch the club get in a bit. And obviously we can argue all day about low scoring vs high scoring eras and 3v3 OT.

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

Still not a single one of those are "snipes". That is simply hitting a difficult angle. A sniper from the military definition is hitting a small target from long distance. Hockey terms, every player ever who has played at a reasonable skill level knows that is bar down top cheese where mama hides the cookies busted water bottle shots and even better if its you vs the goalie 1v1 instead of a screen or one timer.

Again, watch on repeat so everyone here knows what a true snipe is. A goal is not a snipe simply because it went in the net.



But since people cant understand nor agree on a definition, ill do throw some numbers at you all to help us determine it. This is best goal scorer+playmaker aka G+A so we have something quantitative to go off of.

50G + 100A
Only 15 times have 100+ assists happened, Wayne and Mario are the only ones to put 50+ goals up with 100+ assists.

50G + 90A
92-93 Lafontaine 53+95
88-89 Yzerman 65+90

50G + 85A
23-24 MacKinnon 51+89
22-23 McDavid 64+89
95-96 Jagr 62+87

50G+80A
79-80 Dionne 53+84
81-82 Bossy 64+83
76-77 Lafleur 56+80
88-89 Nicholls 70+80

50G+75A
81-82 Trottier 50+79
92-93 Yzerman 58+79
78-79 Lafleur 52+77
84-85 Hawerchuk 53+77
73-74 Esposito 68+77
22-23 Draisaitl 52+76
81-82 Maruk 60+76
70-71 Esposito 76+76
79-80 Lafleur 50+75
72+73 Esposito 55+75

So there you go. Only recent big boys in our current game are McDavid and MacKinnon. Draisaitl if you stretch the club get in a bit. And obviously we can argue all day about low scoring vs high scoring eras and 3v3 OT.

Dude, you spent the last page scolding everyone for not using your extremely narrow sniper definition of someone who scores all their goals wrist shot top shelf bar down. Now you pull a 180 and go with a new definition of "total goals". I think their might be some middle ground you are missing there.