Best Scouting Department in the NHL | Page 2 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League

Best Scouting Department in the NHL

I've sat around a few Tampa guys over the years. They're (were?) a very prepared group. Creative, talent-focused picks generally. Can't speak for them all over because I didn't do work all over, but this was the first team that came to mind for me...it's possible that I'm out-dated in that belief given how quickly things change in this world.
 
Further, separating from development - which is a different ball game entirely.

For instance, Pittsburgh for the last decade has been the worst drafting team in the league. But they were renowned for their development and were a destination spot for undrafted players because of this. They have gotten more production out of undrafted FAs than drafted players over the 10 years (or whatever, I haven't updated this figure since last summer). Their scouting process is not very strong, but the development-focused guys over the years (most have now gone) like Sullivan, Gonchar, Jacques Martin, Bill Guerin, etc. made them great for salvaging players who were - at one point - cast aside or considered just about the worst players in the league (Justin Schultz, Matt Niskanen, etc.).

Someone upthread said "whoever produced the most NHL players...NEXT!" and that's fine on a surface level and without being inside each organization, it's tough to exactly figure it out. But it's not quite as simple as that. Great scouting can be let down by poor development environment and dev strategy. Great development can salvage uneven scouting.
I have questioned the Senators development system.

Zibanejad
Elliot
Bishop
Foligno
Silferberg

Just seems like so many established themselves AFTER they get traded by the Sens
 
I have questioned the Senators development system.
Fair to question. But I wouldn't worry myself about technically poor players like Brian Elliott and, to a lesser extent, Ben Bishop. Most goalies are a product of team effects anyhow, but the majority of success these players had statistically was because of team insulation. Especially Elliott, who was rubbish (but also an all time* save pct "king" whatever that's worth to folks haha)...
 
Amy idea who the Buffalo scouts wanted that year ?
I don't want to get into all this. But I'll say that it definitely wasn't Tim Murray vs. all. There was some degree of agreement from the scouting staff with Nylander.

Though it's obvious because he went next, but I believe the other player that was chiefly considered was Sergachev...
 
I can’t speak to every team league wide so I’ll stick to what I know and say the Canes have been pretty good lately, even across different GMs/front offices. Not the best in the league but a bunch of drafted players and steals on the roster, plus a pretty good pipeline lately despite drafting mid/late 20s every year for like the last 6 years
Pens definitely appreciated it.
 
I don't want to get into all this. But I'll say that it definitely wasn't Tim Murray vs. all. There was some degree of agreement from the scouting staff with Nylander.

Though it's obvious because he went next, but I believe the other player that was chiefly considered was Sergachev...
They did manage to pick Hagel, but I feel Hagel and Fox are players where you can only give scouting half the credit since they were never developed by the teams that picked them.
 
Calgary Flames draft pretty damn good. Its the biggest reason they never bottom out.

Guys like:
Ferland:133
Gaudreau:104
Brossoit:164
Kulak:105
Monahan:6
Bennett:4
Tkachuk:6
Andersson:53
Mangiapane:166
Dube:56
Fox:66
Wolf:214
 
  • Like
Reactions: DaveG
If you separate pro and amateur scouting, I think this brings in a lot more variety.

Sens have pretty bad amateur scouting imho, but their pro scouting has been above average since Staios took over. Conversely, the Red Wings have strong amateur scouting, but their pro scouting has been pretty bad lately with their contracts and trades.

Avs also have less than desirable amateur scouting, however outside of fumbling the bag this season, their pro scouting has been excellent.
yep. For example I would say Florida's amateur scouting is solid, but I wouldn't have them in the top 5 league wide in that regard.

but their pro scouting is absolutely top notch. Almost certainly the best in the business right now. The number of guys that they've taken absolute flyers on that have turned out to be home runs in recent years is crazy. Bennett for example was looked at as a massive disappointment bordering on being a bust when he was traded to the Panthers, now he's potentially the biggest UFA C target league-wide since Tavares went to Toronto in UFA.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bjornar Moxnes
I don't know if the current Panthers front office is good or bad at amateur scouting (not enough information), but I do think they are the best in the business when it comes to pro scouting.

Pretty much the entire roster has been built from trade or FA acquisitions, and many of these players were guys considered to be busts or plugs by the league and fans at large.
 
In Dallas' case, you can see that Detroit's drafting took a shit almost immediately after Jim Nill left.
A quick glance at the Dallas draft history they had a good one in 2017, picked up a couple more but nothing jumps out as spectacular enough to stand out above the crowd.

I'm seeing luck potentially being more at play than any astute drafting ability
 
A quick glance at the Dallas draft history they had a good one in 2017, picked up a couple more but nothing jumps out as spectacular enough to stand out above the crowd.

I'm seeing luck potentially being more at play than any astute drafting ability

Their Top 6 centers were picked 49th and 23rd, they've got a top pairing defenseman at 18th, and the centerpiece for their Rantanen trade was picked 47th.

You could make an argument that the quantity isn't great, but the quality is off the charts. They've drafted numerous core players in spots you shouldn't be finding core players.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DaveG
Kings are absolutely excellent from the 3rd round on, and I'm not sure there's a team with a 7th round NHL placement like them. This tells me their department is amongst the best, and all the past views of metrics about 'games played' has them at or near the top. If you're a 'just a guy,' LA will make a player out of you.

HOwever, they SUCK with 1st and 2nd rounders, seemingly no clue how to develop blue chip talent. Churn out well-rounded NHLers? Absolutely. Churn out anyone who can hit the broadside of a barn with a puck? Well...and this seems to historically be on the GM. Would love to see what Yanetti and co could do in another environment but there's a reason they've been here so long.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lt Dan
I have questioned the Senators development system.

Zibanejad
Elliot
Bishop
Foligno
Silferberg

Just seems like so many established themselves AFTER they get traded by the Sens

Senators got Anderson for Elliot,
Senators got Méthot for Foligno, which was Karlsson’s best D partner, but then lost him 4 years later, to expand draft because Phaneuf wouldn’t waive his NTC (which was his right).
 
Their Top 6 centers were picked 49th and 23rd, they've got a top pairing defenseman at 18th, and the centerpiece for their Rantanen trade was picked 47th.

You could make an argument that the quantity isn't great, but the quality is off the charts. They've drafted numerous core players in spots you shouldn't be finding core players.
Yeah, I get what you're saying.

Still seems the judgement could go either way.

Knowing how much random chance plays a role in everything. Stankoven is still a question mark because he's more of the potential upside still rather than proven commodity.

Then 2015, 2016, and 2018 were washes....

I would think a truly talented scouting department could find something in three collective drafts...
 
Senators got Anderson for Elliot,
Senators got Méthot for Foligno, which was Karlsson’s best D partner, but then lost him 4 years later, to expand draft because Phaneuf wouldn’t waive his NTC (which was his right).
True.

Just puzzles me why they dumped young talent fast.
 
Yeah, I get what you're saying.

Still seems the judgement could go either way.

Knowing how much random chance plays a role in everything. Stankoven is still a question mark because he's more of the potential upside still rather than proven commodity.

Then 2015, 2016, and 2018 were washes....

I would think a truly talented scouting department could find something in three collective drafts...
I assume you mean 2014 because 2015 was Hintz and Gurianov.

You're gonna find that most teams have several drafts that didn't produce f*** all of anything. You wont find many that had the draft Dallas had in 2017 on top of pulling studs like Hintz/Johnston/Harley without top end picks.
 
True.

Just puzzles me why they dumped young talent fast.

If you want a really fun one, consider that in the last 15 years, Buffalo has drafted:

Linus Ullmark
Rasmus Ristolainen
Nikita Zadorov
JT Compher
Sam Reinhart
Viktor Olofsson
Jack Eichel
Brandon Hagel
Casey Mittelstadt
Dylan Cozens
 
  • Like
Reactions: DaveG
I assume you mean 2014 because 2015 was Hintz and Gurianov.

Yes, 2014. Oops!
You're gonna find that most teams have several drafts that didn't produce f*** all of anything.
Yeah, and this is the thing that makes me wonder just how much of a role luck plays.
I envision it as the department does its homework, analyzes the player's game and figures his potential etc and then puck him and because of doing their homework they maybe increase the odds slightly compared to the Harold Ballard method of just using the scoring leaders as your basis for drafting or the John Ferguson method of looking for a power forward with every damn pick. But then they are still at the mercy of the hickey gods where the odds are overwhelming against the pick turning out.
You wont find many that had the draft Dallas had in 2017 on top of pulling studs like Hintz/Johnston/Harley without top end picks.
Agree. And this is sort of the flip side of my previous reference to 2014, 2016, and 2018. Sometimes luck can be kind to you- albeit luck mixed in with a bit of hard work in doing your due diligence on a draft pick.

So, if all teams are doing their due diligence and they have no Ferguson-like biases, it seems it really comes down to random chance which will see some teams look like drafting geniuses with a 2017 -like haul and others never have that fortune.
 
Yes, 2014. Oops!

Yeah, and this is the thing that makes me wonder just how much of a role luck plays.
I envision it as the department does its homework, analyzes the player's game and figures his potential etc and then puck him and because of doing their homework they maybe increase the odds slightly compared to the Harold Ballard method of just using the scoring leaders as your basis for drafting or the John Ferguson method of looking for a power forward with every damn pick. But then they are still at the mercy of the hickey gods where the odds are overwhelming against the pick turning out.

Agree. And this is sort of the flip side of my previous reference to 2014, 2016, and 2018. Sometimes luck can be kind to you- albeit luck mixed in with a bit of hard work in doing your due diligence on a draft pick.

So, if all teams are doing their due diligence and they have no Ferguson-like biases, it seems it really comes down to random chance which will see some teams look like drafting geniuses with a 2017 -like haul and others never have that fortune.
Sure there will be some luck involved, since your drafting kids that are 17 or 18 at time of draft. You’re extrapolating what they may become.
 
Yes, 2014. Oops!

Yeah, and this is the thing that makes me wonder just how much of a role luck plays.
I envision it as the department does its homework, analyzes the player's game and figures his potential etc and then puck him and because of doing their homework they maybe increase the odds slightly compared to the Harold Ballard method of just using the scoring leaders as your basis for drafting or the John Ferguson method of looking for a power forward with every damn pick. But then they are still at the mercy of the hickey gods where the odds are overwhelming against the pick turning out.

Agree. And this is sort of the flip side of my previous reference to 2014, 2016, and 2018. Sometimes luck can be kind to you- albeit luck mixed in with a bit of hard work in doing your due diligence on a draft pick.

So, if all teams are doing their due diligence and they have no Ferguson-like biases, it seems it really comes down to random chance which will see some teams look like drafting geniuses with a 2017 -like haul and others never have that fortune.

I think for a team like Dallas, the question may be more, how much of it is development rather than scouting prior to the draft.

But that then leads to another question, are they scouting guys they think are teachable?
 
  • Like
Reactions: DaveG

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest posts

Ad

Ad