Best Scouting Department in the NHL

[Ford Prefect]

I was responding to a topic in another thread which led me to a review of the Stars roster. I don't follow them that closely, and was pretty surprised to see how their team was constructed. 6 of the 7 leading scorers on the team this year were not only drafted by the team, but none of them were drafted higher than 21. Hell, one of the centerpieces that landed them Rantannen was drafted at 47. I can't think of a single team that has the talent that they in picks that far down in the draft. Aside from Sequin and Duchene (FA signing or traded for). Heiskanen is the only top of the draft player that they have.

I can't think of another team that has done as much with where they've drafted. Boston comes to mind (Pasta at 26, Marchand and Bergeron in the second round, etc.) as a contender, but I don't think any team has drafted better. Who are your thoughts as to the best scouting department in the league?

 

[NotAVacuumSalesman]

The best scouting department are the ones that produce the most NHL players.

Next question!

 

[mab894]

Blues have to be up there. Armstrong consistently hits on our mid to late 1st round picks and our scouting department drafts plenty of guys in the later rounds that carve out significant roles on the Blues.

 

[Toby91ca]

The best scouting department are the ones that produce the most NHL players.

Next question!

Correct. I see a lot about how great certain guys have been about being able to pick a guy in the 6th round and look how good he is now….but what about the other 4 or 5 picks they had before that one that year, how were those picks?

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

Tough to say because this exercise assumes NHL franchises always stick to their scouts' boards...Tim Murray overruling Buffalo's scouts when picking Alex Nylander is a good example of getting sabotaged by a shitty GM.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

I can’t speak to every team league wide so I’ll stick to what I know and say the Canes have been pretty good lately, even across different GMs/front offices. Not the best in the league but a bunch of drafted players and steals on the roster, plus a pretty good pipeline lately despite drafting mid/late 20s every year for like the last 6 years

 

[lawrence]

The Winnipeg Jets and Dallas Stars both built their playoff runs around core groups of players they originally drafted.

 

[SI90]

Not only Scouts but Jim Nill is one of the best in the business. He really does his homework and he’s not afraid to go with his gut on a guy he’s convicted on that maybe some don’t see as highly ranked. Wyatt Johnston is a perfect example. He was 100% a Jim Nill pick. Nill fell in love with him and his game.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Agree with most of the teams already mentioned - Stars, Canes, Blues & Jets…but I think the Caps have done well lately as well. And the Wild. Other than the Stramel pick. Hated that one.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I can’t speak to every team league wide so I’ll stick to what I know and say the Canes have been pretty good lately, even across different GMs/front offices. Not the best in the league but a bunch of drafted players and steals on the roster, plus a pretty good pipeline lately despite drafting mid/late 20s every year for like the last 6 years

Canes currently and in recent years:

Aho 35th
Kochetkov 36th
Nedeljkovic 37th
Morrow 40th
Luostarainen 42nd
Drury 42nd
Pesce 66th
Foegele 67th
Geekie 67th
Nikishin 69th
Roy 96th
Blake 109th
Slavin 120th
Lorentz 186th

That’s a hell of a lot of talent past the 1st round. They could win some games with that group, even if they didn’t have talent from any other source.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

If you separate pro and amateur scouting, I think this brings in a lot more variety.

Sens have pretty bad amateur scouting imho, but their pro scouting has been above average since Staios took over. Conversely, the Red Wings have strong amateur scouting, but their pro scouting has been pretty bad lately with their contracts and trades.

Avs also have less than desirable amateur scouting, however outside of fumbling the bag this season, their pro scouting has been excellent.

 

[justHypnos]

Not only Scouts but Jim Nill is one of the best in the business. He really does his homework and he’s not afraid to go with his gut on a guy he’s convicted on that maybe some don’t see as highly ranked. Wyatt Johnston is a perfect example. He was 100% a Jim Nill pick. Nill fell in love with him and his game.

There wasn't much homework to be done with Johnston. He basically skipped his draft year. It was a gamble pick like others in that draft, especially from the OHL.

 

[PistolPete]

I was responding to a topic in another thread which led me to a review of the Stars roster. I don't follow them that closely, and was pretty surprised to see how their team was constructed. 6 of the 7 leading scorers on the team this year were not only drafted by the team, but none of them were drafted higher than 21. Hell, one of the centerpieces that landed them Rantannen was drafted at 47. I can't think of a single team that has the talent that they in picks that far down in the draft. Aside from Sequin and Duchene (FA signing or traded for). Heiskanen is the only top of the draft player that they have.

I can't think of another team that has done as much with where they've drafted. Boston comes to mind (Pasta at 26, Marchand and Bergeron in the second round, etc.) as a contender, but I don't think any team has drafted better. Who are your thoughts as to the best scouting department in the league?

I would argue that all teams are equal in their abilities to scout talent, their success rate just depends on luck.

An example of yore:

Glen Sather.

Kurri and Anserson were 4th round.
Messier was 3rd round.
Moog was 7th round.

Within two drafts got the core of team that got 4 Cups in 5 years.

Amazing GM? Barry Fraser was a genius scout, right?

Well, two things.

If they were so adept at eyeing talent why is it they found crap for the next decade save for Tikkanen, Smith, and Beukaboom- bit still, hardly world class talents.

2. If they were so adept, why was Shawn Babcock taken ahead of Jari Kurri in 1980?

3. If they were so adept, why did the miss these players:

1979
Tim Kerr
JIm Fox
Doug Crossman
Mike Krushelnyski

1980
Steve Larmer
Bernie Nicholls
Troy Murray

And this is is true of any and all teams. Drafting is as much as matter if luck than ability.

Except John Ferguson. He really was a horrible, terrible GM.

I'm shocked he picked Dale Hawerchuk even if he was a consensus first overall pick and not Mark Hunter instead.

 

[Ghost of Murph]

Dallas has to be at the top. Nill is incredible. Canes obviously great as well. It'd be interesting to be a fly on the wall to see which GMs went a different direction than the scouts on players that ended up being highly successful.

Something that makes it hard to judge the best scouting department to some degree is player development. Scouts and GMs might make a great draft choice but player development is weak.

 

[matt trick]

Dallas's production would be solid for a tank team- Johnston, Stankhoven, Robertson, Harley, Oettinger, Bischel, Bourque, Delly, Back is a great haul for a six year period, and that's excluding a #1 d-man drafted at #3 in Heiskanen.

Carolina is also really good. Aho, Slavin, Kochetov, Geekie, Jarvis, Necas are home runs with picks from 12 (Jarvis/Necas) on. Nikishin, Nadeau and Morrow likely join that group as well. Then Drury, Lustorainen, Lorentz, Blake are nice bottom six guys outside the first round. Their two top 5 picks in the past 10 years (Svechnikov at 2, Hanifin at 5) were also hits.

Anaheim's good overall, but damn are they exceptional at drafting d-men. In the last 15 years- Theodore, Lacombe, Lindholm, Fowler, Gardiner, Montour, Vatanen, Drysdale, Luneau, Stolberg, and Mintyukov. They hit on a top 4 d-man in 50-75% of draft years depending on how the prospects perform.
San Jose's Dmen drafting for context: Ferraro, Demelo, and Dickinson in 15 years (though we had Vlasic, Braun, and Carle the prior 4 years).

Detroit's done a really good job during the Yzerplan with drafting. They've been somewhat unlucky in that they haven't been able to get a franchise C to play with Larkin (who I see as a dream 1b guy). Seider, Edvinsson, Hronek, Kaspar, Raymond are really excellent players, and Danielson, MBN, and Cossa all look good as well.

Similar for STL, they hit often, but don't seem to go for elite talent. Given where they tend to draft, I understand the strategy. If you are a post-tank team with your franchise pieces, the STL model of consistently middle of the lineup additions is probably ideal.

 

[Stopper33]

Amateur or Pro? Colorado has not done well in the draft in my opinion. Missing on players like Kaut, Jost, Olausson. However their pro scouts have done very well, bringing in guys like Nichuskin, Kiviranta, Kelly, etc.

 

[Rebels57]

Dallas and Carolina for sure

 

[AnimalMother73]

If you separate pro and amateur scouting, I think this brings in a lot more variety.

Sens have pretty bad amateur scouting imho, but their pro scouting has been above average since Staios took over. Conversely, the Red Wings have strong amateur scouting, but their pro scouting has been pretty bad lately with their contracts and trades.

Avs also have less than desirable amateur scouting, however outside of fumbling the bag this season, their pro scouting has been excellent.

As an Avs fan I can’t believe they have won 3 cups w how consistently terrible their drafting has been outside the top ten.

 

[PistolPete]

How do you separate results due to good scouting from lucky scouting results?

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Prospect development is such a crapshot, no team has ever figured out how to consistently get quality talent out of lower rounds that forms the bedrock of elite teams. It has a low ceiling, and if you reach it, that's enough

 

[PistolPete]

Prospect development is such a crapshot, no team has ever figured out how to consistently get quality talent out of lower rounds that forms the bedrock of elite teams. It has a low ceiling, and if you reach it, that's enough

They can't even necessarily do it with top rounds either .

Talent is relative and in any given draft year only a handful (a dozen in a good year) will have meaningful careers.

So maybe it's all a crapshoot? The draft, prospect development and in the end it doesn't even matter, they try so hard and get so far but it all comes down to luck?

 

[FiveTacos]

Anaheim's good overall, but damn are they exceptional at drafting d-men. In the last 15 years- Theodore, Lacombe, Lindholm, Fowler, Gardiner, Montour, Vatanen, Drysdale, Luneau, Stolberg, and Mintyukov. They hit on a top 4 d-man in 50-75% of draft years depending on how the prospects perform.

There's even a few others going way back ... Schultz, Manson, Leopold, or lesser dudes like Mahura, Thrun ... it's why it's almost funny when people here offer up a D prospect in proposals as if the Ducks don't know how to find those guys. It's also too many to be explained by luck, doubly so because most were not high picks.

Goalies too. Gibson, Hiller, Dostal, Andersen, even going back to Bryzgalov and Gerber.

Forwards OTOH, they've been pretty ordinary. There's been a few finds, but nothing earth shattering.

 

[Puckstop40]

Amateur or Pro? Colorado has not done well in the draft in my opinion. Missing on players like Kaut, Jost, Olausson. However their pro scouts have done very well, bringing in guys like Nichuskin, Kiviranta, Kelly, etc.

Our pro scouts do very well overall. Our amateur scouts are abysmal.

Dallas, Anaheim, and Carolina build very well through the draft and seem to find good talent outside of the first round.

 

[Michael Farkas]

How do you separate results due to good scouting from lucky scouting results?

Further, separating from development - which is a different ball game entirely.

For instance, Pittsburgh for the last decade has been the worst drafting team in the league. But they were renowned for their development and were a destination spot for undrafted players because of this. They have gotten more production out of undrafted FAs than drafted players over the 10 years (or whatever, I haven't updated this figure since last summer). Their scouting process is not very strong, but the development-focused guys over the years (most have now gone) like Sullivan, Gonchar, Jacques Martin, Bill Guerin, etc. made them great for salvaging players who were - at one point - cast aside or considered just about the worst players in the league (Justin Schultz, Matt Niskanen, etc.).

Someone upthread said "whoever produced the most NHL players...NEXT!" and that's fine on a surface level and without being inside each organization, it's tough to exactly figure it out. But it's not quite as simple as that. Great scouting can be let down by poor development environment and dev strategy. Great development can salvage uneven scouting.

 

[T REX]

Bolts?

Grade: Incomplete because we trade all our picks away.

The one we did get to use? Yeah...we screwed that one up too. Does a team even need a scouting dept if the GM trades all the picks away for "magic beans"?