Best players to just not get the shot in the NHL

[Zine]

I recall Tretiak telling a story that he once had a clear opportunity to defect but didn’t have enough time to think the decision through and chose not to.

Situations like Tretiak's weren't uncommon, actually.

Slava Kozlov ironically gave a recent interview - said he was standing outside the hotel at the WJC and some shady NHL representative came out of nowhere and said "get in my car now - go to Detroit". But
Kozlov said he wasn't ready to leave at a moment's notice.

 

[Albatros]

I don't know about KGB and the Soviet hockey team, but in soccer Stasi did traps like that to East German players it suspected of disloyalty. Obviously Red Army players were military personnel and would face a court-martial if caught.

 

[Zine]

I don't know about KGB and the Soviet hockey team, but in soccer Stasi did traps like that to East German players it suspected of disloyalty. Obviously Red Army players were military personnel and would face a court-martial if caught.

Maybe.
But in Kozlov’s case, he said NHL ‘agents’ were everywhere.
He likened them to bounty hunters who would deliver players to their NHL teams then collect commissions.
In his case it was a guy working for Detroit (Shevchenko). He was later sued by numerous players.

Kozlov said the punishment for defecting was his father would lose his job.

 

[carjackmalone]

Erick Kunhhakl
Doru Tureanu
Tony Hand
Dale Derkatch
The Hiti Brothers

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

The Europeans wanted to come. In the 1970s-1980s all the players from the USSR and Czechoslovakia really wanted to come.

I think Mozyakin is the best player never to want to play in the NHL. Shipachyov is probably the one who didn't get a proper shot, possibly arriving to the NHL overripe. Patrick Thoresen comes to mind as well.

Mozyakin, Zaripov, Jörgen Jonsson all come to mind..

 

[mattihp]

Mozyakin, Zaripov, Jörgen Jonsson all come to mind..

Jörgen Jönsson could have fit in the NHL eventually. As good 2nd liner or a deluxe version of Mats Lindgren on the third line. Mozyakin could have been a star.

 

[Albatros]

Jönsson was very good with the Islanders, but they were a total mess under Milbury at the time and traded him to another bad team in Anaheim. The Ducks didn't know what to do with him and so he went back home. I don't think he needed any more time, but rather a better team that knew what they have in a reliable two-way workhorse like him.

 

[miscs75]

How good were those 1970s Soviet Union guys? I’d vote for a few of them honestly. Kharlamov and Mikhailov both come to mind. Even Fetisov and the 1980s guys if they came over earlier would have been absolute forces in the NHL based on what those Soviet teams did to the opposition.

 

[mattihp]

How good were those 1970s Soviet Union guys? I’d vote for a few of them honestly. Kharlamov and Mikhailov both come to mind. Even Fetisov and the 1980s guys if they came over earlier would have been absolute forces in the NHL based on what those Soviet teams did to the opposition.

Kharlamov had probably the best skillset of a Russian forward ever. Fedorov was a bit smarter, but Kharlamov could have gone down as one of the greatest ever.

 

[Mike C]

Maybe.
But in Kozlov’s case, he said NHL ‘agents’ were everywhere, always trying to lure players to the West at every opportunity.
He likened them bounty hunters who would deliver players to their NHL teams then collect commissions.
In his case it was a guy working for Detroit (Shevchenko). He was later sued by numerous players.

Kozlov said the punishment for defecting was his father would lose his job.

Or his life

 

[morehockeystats]

Or his life

In the 1930s yes, in the 1970s, moreover 1980s, not anymore.

 

[Mike C]

In the 1930s yes, in the 1970s, moreover 1980s, not anymore.

They had their ways of doing what they always did and continue to do

 

[Zine]

They had their ways of doing what they always did and continue to do

None of those guys’ families were harmed, let alone killed.

Nor should we ignore how all those Soviet defectors like Mogilny, Fedorov, Fetisov, are currently choosing Russia, KHL, Russian government over “freedom”.
The world isnt as black and white as you’ve been taught.

 

[Mike C]

None of those guys’ families were harmed, let alone killed.

Nor should we ignore how all those Soviet defectors like Mogilny, Fedorov, Fetisov, are currently choosing Russia, KHL, Russian government over “freedom”.
The world isnt as black and white as you’ve been taught.

Hmm----maybe the reason they choose the motherland isn't as grey as all that.

My initial post was a tounge in cheek quip but in the big picture, my suspicion is that yes many high profile people were unharmed and others had unfortunate car "accidents", disappearances and medical "problems". Then there is the guy who "fell" off a train. There are many "suicides" and unsolved mysterious deaths. Not all hockey--other athletes too


After careful scrutiny---it's a really tough call, but I'll go Patrick Henry here and opt in for liberty

 

[Michael Farkas]

Tony Hand

Nah. We've seen Hand, it's really unlikely that he would have been able to do much in the NHL...

Nigel Dawes wouldve been quite good in the newer 'wide open' NHL of the 2010s-present.

He played in the perfect era for his style of game and just doesn't have the hockey sense to do it. He manufactures goals because he works for it, but there isn't an era where anything different happens for him. He's a plug and play, bottom six player. WYSIWYG.

 

[alko]

Jozef Golonka - Czechoslovakian star in 60s

I think, he could have a very nice career in NHL. He had the skills. Not only offensive, but also defensive. He had the motor. When you see the videos from 60s and his best form, you can clearly see, he was not afraid to do all the necessary for his team.

 

[conFABulator]

Fred Perlini? Early eighties Maple Leaf. Who knows what was happening back then with that organization or what the whole story was.

8 gp, 5 points.

He put up decent AHL numbers and then went on to have a ridiculous career in the UK. Ridiculous. I don't even understand what the scores must have been in those games for him to put up those numbers.

Quite honestly, this thread (a good one) was just an opportunity to post his UK stats

 

[HabzSauce]

So, I was doing a dive on a goalie. Brandon Maxwell who is working with a cognitive company. He looks like it was working, but he had lost his job in DEL and was playing in DEL2. I thought, if things are going well, how did he get demoted.

He lost his job to Kristers Gudlevskis. I looked at his stats and could understand why. Kristers has fantastic numbers. I looked back at his previous stats and found his NHL career although extremely short was kind of nuts.

View attachment 895058

This guy has no losses and GAA and SV that are crazy.

Are there any other guys out there with under say 10-20 games that look like they should have played?

He was also a beast in game 4 vs Habs in 2014. And he almost single handedly beat team Canada in 2014 Olympics (55/57 saves lol)

He had stiff competition with bishop and Vasy in Tampa Bay, but still surprised he couldn't land a gig somewhere else

 

[CaptBrannigan]

So, I was doing a dive on a goalie. Brandon Maxwell who is working with a cognitive company. He looks like it was working, but he had lost his job in DEL and was playing in DEL2. I thought, if things are going well, how did he get demoted.

He lost his job to Kristers Gudlevskis. I looked at his stats and could understand why. Kristers has fantastic numbers. I looked back at his previous stats and found his NHL career although extremely short was kind of nuts.

View attachment 895058

This guy has no losses and GAA and SV that are crazy.

Are there any other guys out there with under say 10-20 games that look like they should have played?

Side note on Gudlevskis, one of those games was a 1-0 OT loss so he’s even got a ‘normal’ 60 minute shutout that’s not an official one due to how they’re tracked. I fully understand the ruling but as a goalie it irks me, especially if that’s the only one I was ever getting!

 

[mattihp]

Nah. We've seen Hand, it's really unlikely that he would have been able to do much in the NHL...


He played in the perfect era for his style of game and just doesn't have the hockey sense to do it. He manufactures goals because he works for it, but there isn't an era where anything different happens for him. He's a plug and play, bottom six player. WYSIWYG.

I saw quite a bit of his games on VHS in the mid-90s and the hockey sense was there. Mostly highlights and then a couple of special games..

I would have loved to see him in the SHL, but he was too uncomfortable away from home. Take that away and I would say he could have had a good or great career as a second line NHLer.

 

[Michael Farkas]

I think you got two different players in the quote. Dawes didn't have hockey sense and didn't play in the 90's. Hand had hockey sense and not nearly the physical or technical skills to play in the NHL. I'm not entirely sure which one you're backing there haha

I mean, there's plenty of Tony Hand games on YouTube, we don't have to wonder. If Hand would have been able to be a second liner in the NHL, then a couple other guys from the - what - 16th best league in the world (?)..14th? - could have played in the NHL too. That's a big ask.

Elitserien money was certainly better than British League money in this timeframe...did anyone successfully make their way all the way up to that level? I doubt it.

The only player I could find is not a good example because he was already good, and I doubt he took the British League any more serious than a beer league...I imagine he would have had a better career than Hand if he was forced to play down to that level. Alexander Kozhevnikov - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

 

[FrozenJagrt]

I know nothing about the player so maybe someone here could tell me why Corey Locke never really got much of an opportunity in the NHL. His stats in the OHL and AHL were terrific.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Tretiak was a tier above Glen Hall, T.Esposito, and Ken Dryden in international play.

If he played in the NHL during his prime, I believe he would have been in the Roy/Hasek/Broderick tier.

Expanded them into the Big 4.

 

[MS]

There were so many defenders in the 1990s in particular who should have been NHL players but didn’t make it because teams insisted on carrying 6’5 slugs that could fight.

Chris O’Sullivan is a guy who stood out to me when he played for the Canucks as an obvious NHL player - elite skater, good size, zone exit machine - but didn’t stick because he was ‘soft’ and had low PIM totals and didn’t fit the template of what NHL GMs wanted in 1999. So instead an absolutely horrific player in Jason Strudwick got to play over him, which was insanity.

If O’Sullivan was the exact same player born 10 years later he has a 500+ game NHL career.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

Hmm----maybe the reason they choose the motherland isn't as grey as all that.

My initial post was a tounge in cheek quip but in the big picture, my suspicion is that yes many high profile people were unharmed and others had unfortunate car "accidents", disappearances and medical "problems". Then there is the guy who "fell" off a train. There are many "suicides" and unsolved mysterious deaths. Not all hockey--other athletes too


After careful scrutiny---it's a really tough call, but I'll go Patrick Henry here and opt in for liberty

not saying no one has ever had their family threatened or harmed for leaving, but it should be acknowledged that the mortality rate in general in Russia for adult men is shockingly high. Just given the rates of alcoholism endemic to that country (and attendant health issues), and the much lower safety standards for vehicles and roads, the law of averages suggests there will be many more premature deaths within a given population in the former Soviet Republixs than compared to a similar sample drawn from Western countries like US, Canada, and Sweden.

Among the deaths which can legitimately be considered ‘suspicious’ my guess is that they can be more plausibly attributed to persons with criminal/economic motives, than to state-sponsored repression.

Of course, if a person’s desperate life circumstances were the result of their losing their job/being blackballed after a family member’s defection, then it would not be controversial IMO to acknowledge that government persecution/retaliation played a role in their subsequent early death.

But to say straight up that ppl have been killed for defecting, or for their family member’s defection, to play hockey in NA — while I’m not saying it never happened, I would be careful about alleging that without specific examples in mind, otherwise you run the risk of undermining the credibility of legitimate criticisms