Best players at each position in the Metro Div. | Page 2 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League

Best players at each position in the Metro Div.

Whoa whoa whoa... wait a minute, you clearly said he would never play 3rd line center.

You listed him as a center, when he played 95-98% on the wing. I said there is no chance he plays 3rd line center. Okay maybe theres a chance, but it won't last long. It would be pretty ****ing stupid to put him as a 3rd line center because he's not good defensively and won't be getting top 6 minutes, not a great idea.

You are wrong, he did... and he is slated to play 3rd line center this season.

You don't know if he's going to play 3rd line center, the coach doesn't even know yet.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/05/02/2867014/canes-need-to-decide-on-how-to.html

Don't get snarky with me because you don't know how to do your due diligence and came away looking dumb because of it.

Settle down


lol I don't get your point, most people posted that he would be on the 2nd line LW, where he should be.....
 
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The first seven lineups in that thread that had Skinner not getting traded, had him on the 3rd line. 5 as the 3rd line center, 2 as the 3rd line LW.

Edit: 5 pages into that thread, and a grand total of two people had skinner higher than the 3rd line. And all but two had him playing 3rd line center.

You might want to check the other pages.....
 
I have him 3rd, behind Crosby and Malkin. Followed by Tavares then Giroux then Staal.

So, in your opinion.... he's the second best 1st line center in the division?

Tavares just scored more goals than Backstrom has in his last two seasons combined.... and he doesn't have Ovechkin (who just won the Richard) riding shotgun.

E.Staal just scored more points and had more than twice as many goals.

Giroux had the same amount of points, more goals scored.... and outscored Nicklas each of the two prior seasons.

You say Ovechkin didn't come alive until he was put on Backstroms wing (March 12th). Backstrom didn't start racking up the points until then either. And if he's so great, why didn't his line mates light it up to that point?

Looking at his game log, he was getting assists on Ovechkin goals in the beginning of the season even when they weren't on the same line.... so you can't even say that all his production pre 3/12 is attributed to only him.
 
You listed him as a center, when he played 95-98% on the wing. I said there is no chance he plays 3rd line center. Okay maybe theres a chance, but it won't last long. It would be pretty ****ing stupid to put him as a 3rd line center because he's not good defensively and won't be getting top 6 minutes, not a great idea.



You don't know if he's going to play 3rd line center, the coach doesn't even know yet.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/05/02/2867014/canes-need-to-decide-on-how-to.html



Settle down



lol I don't get your point, most people posted that he would be on the 2nd line LW, where he should be.....

Admit you're wrong, or drop it.... it's as simple as that. I'm not wasting my time giving you more proof so you can continue to contort the evidence or even what you said to begin with.

You're wrong, period
 
So, in your opinion.... he's the second best 1st line center in the division?
I don't break it down that way. He's the third best center in the division, behind the two in Pittsburgh. At any given moment, either of those guys could be centering the line with the most ice time (or either of them could be injured).

Tavares just scored more goals than Backstrom has in his last two seasons combined.... and he doesn't have Ovechkin (who just won the Richard) riding shotgun.
Backstrom spent half of one of those seasons on IR because of Rene Bourque's cheap shot. Tavares is also the focal point of your offense, like Ovechkin is the focal point of Washington's.

E.Staal just scored more points and had more than twice as many goals.
A lockout shortened season with an elite playmaking winger in Alex Semin was the first time he's been able to break a point/game since 2008. He's a 70 pt/season guy over most of his career. Certainly not bad, but this division is stacked with elite centers. He's also, by far, the worst defensive center in this discussion.

Giroux had the same amount of points, more goals scored.... and outscored Nicklas each of the two prior seasons.
One of those seasons Nicky lost 40 games to Rene Bourque's elbow, as covered earlier and the other was Backstrom's only "bad" season of his career (still scored 65 points). They're the same age and were taken in the same draft, yet Backstrom has 124 more career points already and a higher point/game in his career.

You say Ovechkin didn't come alive until he was put on Backstroms wing (March 12th). Backstrom didn't start racking up the points until then either. And if he's so great, why didn't his line mates light it up to that point?
March 14 (actually 13th at practice). Backstrom had 21 points in 25 games before that. That's still pretty darn good. There was only a slight bump in Backstrom's numbers after he was re-united with Ovechkin, but Ovechkin took off.

Looking at his game log, he was getting assists on Ovechkin goals in the beginning of the season even when they weren't on the same line.... so you can't even say that all his production pre 3/12 is attributed to only him.
Prior to March 14, only 3 of Backstrom's 18 assists came on Ovechkin goals. He assisted twice as many Troy Brouwer goals during that span.
 
I don't break it down that way. He's the third best center in the division, behind the two in Pittsburgh. At any given moment, either of those guys could be centering the line with the most ice time (or either of them could be injured).

So he's better than every other teams 1st line center, other than the Pittsburgh pair. I disagree, a lot.

Backstrom spent half of one of those seasons on IR because of Rene Bourque's cheap shot. Tavares is also the focal point of your offense, like Ovechkin is the focal point of Washington's.

True, he missed half a season.... so to put it another way, John Tavares scored more goals in 48 games, than Backstrom did in his last 90+. Or we could just say that JT has more career goals than Backstrom in about 125 less games, that would also be true. Should we compare Moulson, Parenteau and Boyes to Ovechkin and Semin?

Speaking of Semin...

A lockout shortened season with an elite playmaking winger in Alex Semin was the first time he's been able to break a point/game since 2008. He's a 70 pt/season guy over most of his career. Certainly not bad, but this division is stacked with elite centers. He's also, by far, the worst defensive center in this discussion.

Wasn't Semin also a long time linemate of Ovy/Backstrom?

One of those seasons Nicky lost 40 games to Rene Bourque's elbow, as covered earlier and the other was Backstrom's only "bad" season of his career (still scored 65 points). They're the same age and were taken in the same draft, yet Backstrom has 124 more career points already and a higher point/game in his career.

Backstrom's game is heavily dependent on his linemates production, this is all I'm saying. The fact that his point totals are heavily dependent on assists is enough proof for me. You look at his best seasons, and they directly correspond to the years that Ovechkin was widely considered one of the top two players in the world, and Semin who was no slouch, were his line mates.

Great players make those around them better, Backstrom had two on his line. This isn't to take away from how good Nicklas is/was, I just don't have him higher than Giroux/Tavares/Staal. None of which have any players on the same level as Semin, let alone Ovechkin.... and none that are anywhere near as dependent on the assist to pad point totals.

Edit: Of course, except Staal who has Semin this season.

I have Nicklas high on the list of centers, he just happens to play in a division with a lot of really good ones.

March 14 (actually 13th at practice). Backstrom had 21 points in 25 games before that. That's still pretty darn good. There was only a slight bump in Backstrom's numbers after he was re-united with Ovechkin, but Ovechkin took off.

So who benefited more? Is Ovy a product of Backstrom, or vice versa? I'd think if you polled 100 people in hockey, and asked them to list the best players in the game.... no one would have Backstrom over Ovechkin, and he likely wouldn't even be close on the list.

Prior to March 14, only 3 of Backstrom's 18 assists came on Ovechkin goals. He assisted twice as many Troy Brouwer goals during that span.

I'll take your word for it, because I don't feel like going game to game and checking. But, if that's the case.... why didn't Troy Brouwer fall off a cliff after 3/14? His production actually increased ever so slightly.
 
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I don't break it down that way. He's the third best center in the division, behind the two in Pittsburgh. At any given moment, either of those guys could be centering the line with the most ice time (or either of them could be injured).


Backstrom spent half of one of those seasons on IR because of Rene Bourque's cheap shot. Tavares is also the focal point of your offense, like Ovechkin is the focal point of Washington's.


A lockout shortened season with an elite playmaking winger in Alex Semin was the first time he's been able to break a point/game since 2008. He's a 70 pt/season guy over most of his career. Certainly not bad, but this division is stacked with elite centers. He's also, by far, the worst defensive center in this discussion.


One of those seasons Nicky lost 40 games to Rene Bourque's elbow, as covered earlier and the other was Backstrom's only "bad" season of his career (still scored 65 points). They're the same age and were taken in the same draft, yet Backstrom has 124 more career points already and a higher point/game in his career.


March 14 (actually 13th at practice). Backstrom had 21 points in 25 games before that. That's still pretty darn good. There was only a slight bump in Backstrom's numbers after he was re-united with Ovechkin, but Ovechkin took off.


Prior to March 14, only 3 of Backstrom's 18 assists came on Ovechkin goals. He assisted twice as many Troy Brouwer goals during that span.

You've wasted your time. Outside of your brain, in no universe is Backstrom better than Tavares. Your translation of his stats can't hide this - Backstrom is a good playmaker, but his goals the past 3 years: 18, 14 (in full seasons mind you) and 8 (pro rated to 15) is poor for a #1C, sorry.

edit: ...this past season Tavares looked to his right and saw Boyes. To his left was a rare off year for Moulson. So he sees he needs to take more control and was on pace for 50 G last season...

Tavares is actually closer to Malkin than Backstrom is to Tavares.

Move on.
 
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Wasn't Semin also a long time linemate of Ovy/Backstrom?
Nope. That line was rarely used. Kozlov or Knuble were typically the final member of the top line while Semin was around. Semin was typically on the second line with whatever joke of a 2C we had at the time. Backstrom did occasionally center Semin instead of Ovechkin (namely in the 2008 and 2009 playoffs, when Ovechkin was playing a lot with Fedorov), but it was rare all three of them were united on a line.
The rest of your post continues to talk about Semin as a linemate for Backstrom.


I'll take your word for it, because I don't feel like going game to game and checking. But, if that's the case.... why didn't Troy Brouwer fall off a cliff after 3/14? His production actually increased ever so slightly.
A) He was still playing with Backstrom on the powerplay.
B) He's exactly the type of player that thrives next to Mike Ribeiro, and they had solid chemistry together offensively (though their defensive game together was pretty awful).
 
Ill say backstrom is a great talent and pretty dynamic player....better then tavares? NO...in fact, if i had to choose between the 2 i would rather have Stepan then Backstrom on my team. Backstrom may have a few more points but not as many goals and i like stepan s overall game more then backstrom.

Crosby
Malkin
JT
Staal
Stepan
Backstrom
 
He was still playing with Backstrom on the powerplay.

It's not like his PP numbers went up though... in fact, they went down during that period. So at the very least, Backstrom wasn't making him a better player 5v5.

In the 24 games prior to March 14th he had 10 points on the PP
In the 24 games post March 14th, he had 7 points on the PP

Since he had more points overall in the prior 24 games, more of those points (the majority of his production) had to come 5v5 without Backstrom.

Granted, every player is different... and every combination is going to have differing amounts of chemistry together. But your argument is that Backstrom is the reason Ovechkin went on that tear, and I just do not see that. Not when Ovechkin is clearly a better player than Backstrom, and Backstrom's numbers are heavily skewed in the assist column when Ovy is one of the premier goal scorers in the game.
 
Admit you're wrong, or drop it.... it's as simple as that. I'm not wasting my time giving you more proof so you can continue to contort the evidence or even what you said to begin with.

You're wrong, period

You're acting like it's a fact that he will start the year at 3rd line center, when it's not. Hate to break it to you just because some posters slot him in at 3rd line center doesn't mean it's proof that he will be there. What about the other posters that had him at 2nd line LW, let's just forget about them though.
 
You're acting like it's a fact that he will start the year at 3rd line center, when it's not. Hate to break it to you just because some posters slot him in at 3rd line center doesn't mean it's proof that he will be there. What about the other posters that had him at 2nd line LW, let's just forget about them though.

I never spoke in absolutes.... actually, it was you who did. Thanks for playing though.

Edit: And I just read the rest of that thread, the overwhelming majority of lineups there had him on the 3rd line (the ones that had him listed at all anyway).
 
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Ill say backstrom is a great talent and pretty dynamic player....better then tavares? NO...in fact, if i had to choose between the 2 i would rather have Stepan then Backstrom on my team. Backstrom may have a few more points but not as many goals and i like stepan s overall game more then backstrom.

Crosby
Malkin
JT
Staal
Stepan
Backstrom


I had him below Stepan, but have no problem switching the two. I don't have him above Crosby/Giroux/JT/Staal though (or Malkin, obviously if we're including 2nd line centers)
 
I disagree.... he leaches off of Ovechkin (8G 40A last season) and plays(ed) in the weakest division in hockey. I feel I put him right where he belongs, maybe switch he and Stepan, but that's it.

Where would you have him?

Backstrom hasn't been the same since his concussion problems. He's a good center but he is not at the caliber of those other guys. I think maybe he is a little better than Stepan, but not the same as he used to be. He was on my fantasy league so I followed him closely.
 
Man, all this over the centers and we have not even got to the wings defense or goalies yet. Lol

Right. Centers settled. Pretty much what CDP had and most of us would agree:

Crosby
Malkin
JT (though if given the choice right now, I'd take JT over Malkin in the real world - not fantasy league)
Staal
Stepan
Backstrom

Let's move to Left Wings

Ovechkin
Neal my bad
Nash
Kunitz
Moulson
Hartnell
Elias

2-4 interchangeable. If we're classifying Skinner as a LW, he'd be in the 5 range.
 
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#1 LW
Kunitz PITT
Elias NJD
Moulson NYI
Umberger CBUS
Tlusty CAR
Johansson WSH
Hartnell PHI
Krieder NYR

#2 LW
Ruutu CAR
Erat WSH
Foligno Cbus
Hagelin NYR
Bailey NYI
Schenn PHI
Clowe NJD
Bennett PITT

#3 LW
Grabner NYI
Jokinen PITT
Chimera WSH
Pouliot NYR
Rinaldo PHI
Carter NJD
Calvert CBUS
Bowman CAR

#4 LW
Martin NYI
Tedenby NJD
Glass PITT
Pyatt NYR
Rosehill PHI
Comeau CBUS
Boychuck CAR
Volpatti WSH
 
Right. Centers settled. Pretty much what CDP had and most of us would agree:

Crosby
Malkin
JT (though if given the choice right now, I'd take JT over Malkin in the real world - not fantasy league)
Staal
Stepan
Backstrom

Let's move to Left Wings

Ovechkin
Neal my bad
Nash
Kunitz
Moulson
Hartnell
Elias

2-4 interchangeable. If we're classifying Skinner as a LW, he'd be in the 5 range.

You forgot Giroux.
 
The Tavares hate on the main boards is crazy.

It's mainly from fans of teams in the Western Conference.... Blackhawk fans in particular really get going on the subject.

I look at it this way. At one time, some said Skinner was a better prospect. We don't hear that anymore

Then, Couture was a better player. We don't hear that anymore
Then, Duchene was a better player. We don't hear that anymore
Then is was Hall and RNH and on and on and on.....

The main problem is no one cares about the Islanders, and the team is rarely if ever on national TV. Thus, no one watches. I just ignore it now, the arguments are always the same.

I'll say one thing. I've never seen a player single out an aspect of their game every offseason that was lacking or merely average.... work on it and come back the following season with that aspect as a strength. Three years in a row now, he's improved his skating ten fold.... defense.... strength on the puck.... shot. I'm intrigued as to what he worked on this offseason, as he already scored 50 assists in this league and was on pace for 50 goals last year. This kid is going to erase all doubts within the next two years.

The big thing is, people are going to finally see what this kid has during the olympics.
 

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