FrankSidebottom
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- Mar 16, 2021
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Best player in the world: 2014
- Thread starter FrankSidebottom
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Nathaniel Skywalker
DIG IN!!! RiGHT NOW!!!
- Oct 18, 2013
- 14,328
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Bouboumaster
Registered User
- Jul 4, 2014
- 11,388
- 10,301
jigglysquishy
Registered User
Curious on what logic anyone is voting for someone other than Crosby here.
First in points by 17. No one other than Malkin is even close in PPG. Leads league in EVP.
No outstanding goalie. Keith, while great, is pretty clearly behind Crosby.
A few seasons are cut and dry. This is one of them.
First in points by 17. No one other than Malkin is even close in PPG. Leads league in EVP.
No outstanding goalie. Keith, while great, is pretty clearly behind Crosby.
A few seasons are cut and dry. This is one of them.
norrisnick
The best...
- Apr 14, 2005
- 31,983
- 17,477
The same reasons that have always existed. All-around play and the playoffs. I could see why you'd want to ignore them for this season though...
- Nov 12, 2021
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- Feb 10, 2010
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This was a much weaker season for Crosby than people realize. His secondary assists were through the roof (34) including this beauty where Crosby passes to the other team but somehow still got an assist out of it:
fivethirtyeight.com
By comparison, Crosby's 2014 season is massively weaker than Malkin's 2012 or Kane's 2016 season, or any number of players in the 2013 season.
In terms of primary points Crosby was only marginally different and in some cases significantly worse than any number of other players (.875 per game for Crosby vs .966 primary points per game from Malkin, .987 for Getzlaf, .870 for Ovechkin, .973 for Stamkos, etc.).
In fact Crosby's 2014 season is the single weakest primary point season for any Art Ross winner in decades.
I'll vote for Crosby here, but for those of you who keep emphasizing per game is more important as a measure of who was best, Malkin was the better player than Crosby for the 2nd time in 3 years. Getzlaf was arguably better than Crosby too.
Crosby was also really bad in the playoffs - amassing a paltry 4 primary points in 13 games. Getzlaf had 11 in 13 games.
Some NHL Stars Get More Assists At Home Than They Deserve
Pittsburgh Penguins center Sidney Crosby is one of the most talented players in the National Hockey League. But sometimes, he also gets lucky. This clip comes f…
fivethirtyeight.com
By comparison, Crosby's 2014 season is massively weaker than Malkin's 2012 or Kane's 2016 season, or any number of players in the 2013 season.
In terms of primary points Crosby was only marginally different and in some cases significantly worse than any number of other players (.875 per game for Crosby vs .966 primary points per game from Malkin, .987 for Getzlaf, .870 for Ovechkin, .973 for Stamkos, etc.).
In fact Crosby's 2014 season is the single weakest primary point season for any Art Ross winner in decades.
I'll vote for Crosby here, but for those of you who keep emphasizing per game is more important as a measure of who was best, Malkin was the better player than Crosby for the 2nd time in 3 years. Getzlaf was arguably better than Crosby too.
Crosby was also really bad in the playoffs - amassing a paltry 4 primary points in 13 games. Getzlaf had 11 in 13 games.
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- Feb 10, 2010
- 14,656
- 11,776
It's not cut and dry unless powerplay secondary assists are your jam and you ignore the playoffs.
Counting playoffs and regular season together:
Crosby
Primary Points: 74
Primary PPG: .795
Getzlaf
Primary points: 87
Primary PPG: .966
^^^That is a significant difference in Getzlaf's favor.
Video Nasty
Registered User
- Mar 12, 2017
- 5,981
- 10,551
Crosby, though it should noted that of the 5 players directly behind in him in PPG, 4 of them missed 22, 23, 45, and 37 games apiece. Does it mean he wouldn’t win the Art Ross? No, but I’m sick of hearing how it’s one of the greatest scoring race wins ever, when the field missed significant time.
- Jul 30, 2016
- 3,291
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Once again it's Crosby. Was very nice to finally see him come back and put together a great regular season campaign that wasn't derailed by injuries
Which players are you referring to? The closest in ppg to Crosby that year was Malkin and he had .10 fewer ppg than he did. After that, the margin nearly doubles.
Who is close enough to Crosby at #2, and had a better playoffs/all-around play to warrant ranking above him here? Absolutely no one - this is Crosby. Don't overthink it.
This was a much weaker season for Crosby than people realize. His secondary assists were through the roof (34) including this beauty where Crosby passes to the other team but somehow still got an assist out of it:
Some NHL Stars Get More Assists At Home Than They Deserve
Pittsburgh Penguins center Sidney Crosby is one of the most talented players in the National Hockey League. But sometimes, he also gets lucky. This clip comes f…
By comparison, Crosby's 2014 season is massively weaker than Malkin's 2012 or Kane's 2016 season, or any number of players in the 2013 season.
In terms of primary points Crosby was only marginally different and in some cases significantly worse than any number of other players (.875 per game for Crosby vs .966 primary points per game from Malkin, .987 for Getzlaf, .870 for Ovechkin, .973 for Stamkos, etc.).
In fact Crosby's 2014 season is the single weakest primary point season for any Art Ross winner in decades.
I'll vote for Crosby here, but for those of you who keep emphasizing per game is more important as a measure of who was best, Malkin was the better player than Crosby for the 2nd time in 3 years. Getzlaf was arguably better than Crosby too.
Crosby was also really bad in the playoffs - amassing a paltry 4 primary points in 13 games. Getzlaf had 11 in 13 games.
Crosby had higher ppg than Malkin (1.3 vs 1.2)
Crosby also scored a lot more goals (isn't that what matters most for you? 36 to 23)
No one (except for you) counts primary points only.
You could have just said Crosby, without all of those extra words.
I agree. It was a really good season by Crosby, clearly the best player + best season, and it's a strong Ross win, but it's definitely not an all-time great Ross. For what it's worth - Kane in 2016 gets massively overrated as well. I'd agree that Malkin's season in 2011-2012 is the best out of the 3.
Video Nasty
Registered User
- Mar 12, 2017
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Malkin, Tavares, Stamkos, and Zetterberg. Again, my point isn’t that Crosby didn’t have a great season or that he loses the Art Ross in any fashion. It’s that, not so coincidentally, other fellow PPG leaders missed huge chunks of the season, which I’m normally told in pro-Crosby arguments affects their seasons, when they miss the games and then come back months later, if at all, or play at scattered points throughout the season.
Take Stamkos for instance. He was fresh off 4 consecutive seasons finishing first or second on goals and four consecutive seasons finishing top 5 in points, including back to back runner ups in the previous two previous scoring races.
He had 14 goals and 23 points in 16 games through the day before he broke his leg. He was tied with Crosby in points, led in PPG, and was tied for the lead in goals. He returns 4 months later and scores 11 goals and 17 points in 21 games and is quite frankly never the same player again, certainly not the player who had scored 103 goals in his past 146 games prior to the injury (but that’s another topic entirely and one that Crosby fans are not remotely making for other players).
It’s just not at the level of dominance that is often talked about.
- Jul 30, 2016
- 3,291
- 3,606
I guess there's some truth to that. I wouldn't say it was the absolute hallmark of offensive dominance but it was still a decent enough margin to be decisive. With Malkin, he probably ends up around 95 or so points if he plays every game that year, but Crosby likely finishes around 107 if he plays every game so it's a decent gap between him and another great player. Crosby had 17 more points than Getzlaf and only played 3 more games so that gap's still pretty decent. Idk what happens with Stamkos so I'll rule him out but it was a good season for sure. Not quite as good as Malkin in 2012 but still a good campaign.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
HM to Drew Doughty.
Olympic Gold
primary assist on semifinal winning goal
on ice breakout for golden goal
Stanley Cup
should have been Conn Smythe
www.theglobeandmail.com
pole to pole defensive dominance
not sure its enough to overcome the great offensive players and I haven't been involved enough in these threads to pretend to understand the prevailing narratives but guy did everything
Olympic Gold
primary assist on semifinal winning goal
on ice breakout for golden goal
Stanley Cup
should have been Conn Smythe
Duhatschek: Did Drew Doughty’s 2014 get enough respect?
There’s not a lot more a Canadian athlete can do in one year after leading hockey teams to Olympic gold and a Stanley Cup
www.theglobeandmail.com
pole to pole defensive dominance
not sure its enough to overcome the great offensive players and I haven't been involved enough in these threads to pretend to understand the prevailing narratives but guy did everything
Video Nasty
Registered User
- Mar 12, 2017
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That’s all I’m saying. Crosby was terrific, he earned all the hardware, he was an easy pick for this poll, and at the time, it felt like things had gotten back on track for winning some more scoring races, seeing as how he was only 26. I just think some of the same arguments made for him are too often glossed over for others when it’s necessary to puff up his some healthy seasons.
If I have to listen to arguments about 37 points in 22 games being projected out to full hardware sweeping seasons, I don’t understand why the same wouldn’t be done for someone with a proven track record up to that point like Stamkos who was “pacing” for 70 goals and 118 points after 16 games. I don’t remotely think those would be his final totals and I still think Crosby has the overall final results (the hardware) in 2013-2014, but it’s always been interesting how one-sided the arguments are sometimes.
- Jul 30, 2016
- 3,291
- 3,606
Yeah I definitely agree. There's always a lot of extrapolation and hyperbolic narratives whenever it comes to Crosby on these boards. Without a doubt one of the most talented players in league history, but his career didn't pan out the way he was projected so people feel the need to stretch the truth a fair bit.
Lafleurs Guy
Guuuuuuuy!
- Jul 20, 2007
- 81,150
- 54,078
He won’t win but I think Carey Price became the best player in the world in 2014.
Took a mediocre team to 100 points.
Best player on Team Canada with an absurd .972.
Huge upset in the playoffs over cup favourite Boston where he stopped 50 shots in game one.
Took his team to the quarter finals before getting injured in game one. Just a phenomenal season.
In my opinion, Price in 2014 was actually better than he was the following year when he won everything under the sun.
Took a mediocre team to 100 points.
Best player on Team Canada with an absurd .972.
Huge upset in the playoffs over cup favourite Boston where he stopped 50 shots in game one.
Took his team to the quarter finals before getting injured in game one. Just a phenomenal season.
In my opinion, Price in 2014 was actually better than he was the following year when he won everything under the sun.
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nowhereman
Registered User
Wings4Life
Registered User
To play devil's advocate, here is an argument for Malkin:
-2nd in points per game in the RS
-1 point behind the scoring race leader before going down with injury in December
-much better in the playoffs than Crosby
- Nov 12, 2021
- 10,098
- 9,054
Truly a gold post.
You said so much and captured so much from this thread and just a narrative around the hockey fanbase it self, with two words.
Nathaniel Skywalker
DIG IN!!! RiGHT NOW!!!
- Oct 18, 2013
- 14,328
- 6,020
Lol @Midnight Judges votes ovechkin for 2013 after taking a month to tie crosby in points with 13 more games but then writes and essay about how a player who won the Art Ross by 17 points wasn't the best player
His career didn't pan out the way he was projected? I get that there is a lot of what ifs around injuries and games missed, but with as much hype as he had coming in, he's exceeded it. If you ignore projections, he still won 3 cups and is currently 15th all time in scoring and has a realistic chance at getting top 5 by the time he retires.....I don't think anyone predicted him as the best ever.
