Our Lady Peace
Registered User
Toews. Hawks best forward from 2009-2015 where they won the 3 cups, he had a Conn Smythe, a Frank Selke, and played with the likes of Patrick Kane and Marian Hossa
This but unironically and without the sarcasm.
He really does have an argument for top 100 and he's the only player in this poll who is unquestionably a HOF'er. (Others are debatable but I personally think they'd all be weak inductions).
Crosby has the golden goal in 2010 that will live forever but Toews was the heartbeat of that team.
Kane has a cup winning goal in OT, flashy moments, and memorable celebrations, but Toews was the heartbeat of that team.
The "intangibles" have been meme'd so hard I also think people forget how actually skilled and good offensively he was as well.
Unless my math is wrong (very possible), he averaged 29 goals per 82 games over his entire career despite how hard he fell off at the end and despite playing mostly in a very low scoring era.
I'm certainly not dying on the hill that Toews was an offensive juggernaut but I think just looking at his g/pg ranking over x time frame is disingenuous since it doesn't course correct for the fact that many ahead of him are dead smack in the middle of their prime and haven't had their ratio ruined by late career fall offs nor does it correct for the massively inflated recent scoring compared to 2011 for example. (Depending on what you mean by good number of games. If 800, fair enough, if 400, my point stands).Your point is well taken about how easy it is to push back on the “intangibles” to much that it ends up underrating his actual contributions.
To the stats — among players with a good number of games post-lockout, he ranks about 60th in goals/game. Which if you want to paint that as a negative puts him next to guys like Couture and Parise, or from a more positive angle it puts him next to guys like Datsyuk and Eric Staal.
I'm certainly not dying on the hill that Toews was an offensive juggernaut but I think just looking at his g/pg ranking over x time frame is disingenuous since it doesn't course correct for the fact that many ahead of him are dead smack in the middle of their prime and haven't had their ratio ruined by late career fall offs nor does it correct for the massively inflated recent scoring compared to 2011 for example. (Depending on what you mean by good number of games. If 800, fair enough, if 400, my point stands).
When you figure in everything else he does well (fantastic 5v5 producer, SH producer, good on the PK in general, 200 foot player, shuts down other teams best players, leader etc) it indeed looks very impressive on him to learn that per game he also scored goals at the same rate as Parise or Staal did in their careers.
(Also, unimportant but not sure why Parise is the "negative" angle with six 30 goal seasons and 434 career goals).
Toews was the best forward in 2010, it’s not about him being selected. If you prefer Giroux that’s fine but there’s no argument for him being on another level other than staying healthy and being in a better position to put up PP points.
Toews.
Most people just count stats, which doesn’t do him justice because he was a 200 foot beast.
At times, he was noticeably Canada’s best forward.
Tough poll. I'll go....
Toews
Marchand
Giroux
Backstrom
Kessel
Distant 3rd, maybe even 4th. This is a two player race.Marchy all the way.
You're out of your mind. That Hawks team was a Dynasty if you take away Toews and add Giroux, Kopitar, Getzlaf, Backstrom. Toews certainly wasn't "the team". He was the best player on the team maybe 1 or 2 years his entire career.I don’t think having Giroux or Backstrom in Toews place on the Hawks gives us 3 Cups. Probably even 0 Cups.
It’s as simple as that. Toews is the clear winner here
That's funny considering Giroux was just flat out better.Toews is one of the top 100 players of all time. The others are not.
Giroux was robbed of a HART trophy and finished top 5 three times, he clears Toews ( my fav player of all time outside of Roenick) in peak, prime, longevity. Toews only advantage is careerPeak? Toews.
Prime? Probably also Toews.
Very poor argument. Toews was the 3rd best player on that team behind Kane and Keith. Giroux had a Hart trophy stolen by HallPeople who slander Toews do nothing but look at the numbers and feel they don't add up.
2010 was a monster year for Toews.
He won MVP for the Olympics as he was consistently the best player. But people only talk about the Crosby Golden Goal, even though Crosby was a very mediocre forward for the entire tournament.
Toews lead Team Canada in Scoring and was CLEARLY the best player from the first game.
Toews and Giroux faced each other that same year in the Stanley Cup Finals.
Both had ugly goal shares in that series (4 points for Giroux, 3A for Toews), but Toews walked away with the cup and the Conn Smyth.
You had to have watched the games to appreciate Toews.
Nah Toews was better. Giroux scored more points.That's funny considering Giroux was just flat out better.
Giroux was robbed of a HART trophy and finished top 5 three times, he clears Toews ( my fav player of all time outside of Roenick) in peak, prime, longevity. Toews only advantage is career
??? Giroux peaked higher than:Peak and longevity both clearly Claude Giroux
Career is Toews because of team achievements
Distant 3rd, maybe even 4th. This is a two player race.
You're out of your mind. That Hawks team was a Dynasty if you take away Toews and add Giroux, Kopitar, Getzlaf, Backstrom. Toews certainly wasn't "the team". He was the best player on the team maybe 1 or 2 years his entire career.
Giroux was also great defensively, as was Backstrom, who both were better offensively. And in Giroux's case he put up far better numbers without elite support in Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook etc.Toews.
Most people just count stats, which doesn’t do him justice because he was a 200 foot beast.
At times, he was noticeably Canada’s best forward.
CrosbyName 10 better players from 2010-2015