Best player from 2006 draft?

[Our Lady Peace]

Toews. Hawks best forward from 2009-2015 where they won the 3 cups, he had a Conn Smythe, a Frank Selke, and played with the likes of Patrick Kane and Marian Hossa

 

[tarheelhockey]

This but unironically and without the sarcasm.

He really does have an argument for top 100 and he's the only player in this poll who is unquestionably a HOF'er. (Others are debatable but I personally think they'd all be weak inductions).

Crosby has the golden goal in 2010 that will live forever but Toews was the heartbeat of that team.

Kane has a cup winning goal in OT, flashy moments, and memorable celebrations, but Toews was the heartbeat of that team.

The "intangibles" have been meme'd so hard I also think people forget how actually skilled and good offensively he was as well.

Unless my math is wrong (very possible), he averaged 29 goals per 82 games over his entire career despite how hard he fell off at the end and despite playing mostly in a very low scoring era.

Your point is well taken about how easy it is to push back on the “intangibles” to much that it ends up underrating his actual contributions.

To the stats — among players with a good number of games post-lockout, he ranks about 60th in goals/game. Which if you want to paint that as a negative puts him next to guys like Couture and Parise, or from a more positive angle it puts him next to guys like Datsyuk and Eric Staal.

 

[pi314]

Toews.

Most people just count stats, which doesn’t do him justice because he was a 200 foot beast.

At times, he was noticeably Canada’s best forward.

 

[HFpapi]

Your point is well taken about how easy it is to push back on the “intangibles” to much that it ends up underrating his actual contributions.

To the stats — among players with a good number of games post-lockout, he ranks about 60th in goals/game. Which if you want to paint that as a negative puts him next to guys like Couture and Parise, or from a more positive angle it puts him next to guys like Datsyuk and Eric Staal.

I'm certainly not dying on the hill that Toews was an offensive juggernaut but I think just looking at his g/pg ranking over x time frame is disingenuous since it doesn't course correct for the fact that many ahead of him are dead smack in the middle of their prime and haven't had their ratio ruined by late career fall offs nor does it correct for the massively inflated recent scoring compared to 2011 for example. (Depending on what you mean by good number of games. If 800, fair enough, if 400, my point stands).

When you figure in everything else he does well (fantastic 5v5 producer, SH producer, good on the PK in general, 200 foot player, shuts down other teams best players, leader etc) it indeed looks very impressive on him to learn that per game he also scored goals at the same rate as Parise or Staal did in their careers.

(Also, unimportant but not sure why Parise is the "negative" angle with six 30 goal seasons and 434 career goals).

 

[tarheelhockey]

I'm certainly not dying on the hill that Toews was an offensive juggernaut but I think just looking at his g/pg ranking over x time frame is disingenuous since it doesn't course correct for the fact that many ahead of him are dead smack in the middle of their prime and haven't had their ratio ruined by late career fall offs nor does it correct for the massively inflated recent scoring compared to 2011 for example. (Depending on what you mean by good number of games. If 800, fair enough, if 400, my point stands).

When you figure in everything else he does well (fantastic 5v5 producer, SH producer, good on the PK in general, 200 foot player, shuts down other teams best players, leader etc) it indeed looks very impressive on him to learn that per game he also scored goals at the same rate as Parise or Staal did in their careers.

Fair enough, if we dial it up to 800 post-lockout games (which effectively means we’re only comparing him to guys of his own generation) he lands around 20th, again in a cluster with Skinner-Kane-Couture-Parise-Staal-Zibanejad.

(Also, unimportant but not sure why Parise is the "negative" angle with six 30 goal seasons and 434 career goals).

Because Parise’s another guy who got everyone’s hopes up and then settled into a zone of “good but nothing special”. I guess Staal kind of did that too, just in a more up-and-down kind of way. Seems more flattering to be compared to Datsyuk, out of that group.

 

[Rorschach]

I only care about playoff accomplishments as I saw the first team I followed, the 1991 Kings and how good a record they had in the regular season just to get whacked by Edmonton.

So I'll go with the Conn Smythe winner.

 

[Ghetty Green]

Tough poll. I'll go....

Toews
Marchand
Giroux
Backstrom
Kessel

 

[1865]

Toews was the best forward in 2010, it’s not about him being selected. If you prefer Giroux that’s fine but there’s no argument for him being on another level other than staying healthy and being in a better position to put up PP points.

I'm not suggesting Toews didn't deserve to make the team, but Giroux absolutely did too. It was farcical he didn't make it then and still is today.

FWIW, staying healthy help make you a better player too. As does scoring PP points.

 

[1865]

Toews.

Most people just count stats, which doesn’t do him justice because he was a 200 foot beast.

At times, he was noticeably Canada’s best forward.

The constant references to Team Canada performance is an odd one to me, it's like when people refer to international soccer as being the highest level - it isn't. During these tournaments you're playing for the best team in the entire world, stacked with NHL stars from the first line centre to fourth line wing. You're also playing against weaker average opposition than you face night to night in the NHL too. It's so skewed in favour of high performance.

NHL performance is what matters. Toews was excellent in this too of course, but there's so much weight put behind TC performances and i just don't get it.

 

[1865]

Tough poll. I'll go....

Toews
Marchand
Giroux
Backstrom
Kessel

I see the argument for Toews, though i disagree. There isn't an argument for Marchand to be a better player than Giroux though. He was and still is better offensively, defensively, had a higher peak and was a better leader in a more important position.

 

[Sasso09]

Peak and longevity both clearly Claude Giroux

Career is Toews because of team achievements

Marchy all the way.

Distant 3rd, maybe even 4th. This is a two player race.

I don’t think having Giroux or Backstrom in Toews place on the Hawks gives us 3 Cups. Probably even 0 Cups.

It’s as simple as that. Toews is the clear winner here

You're out of your mind. That Hawks team was a Dynasty if you take away Toews and add Giroux, Kopitar, Getzlaf, Backstrom. Toews certainly wasn't "the team". He was the best player on the team maybe 1 or 2 years his entire career.

 

[Sasso09]

Toews is one of the top 100 players of all time. The others are not.

That's funny considering Giroux was just flat out better.

Peak? Toews.
Prime? Probably also Toews.

Giroux was robbed of a HART trophy and finished top 5 three times, he clears Toews ( my fav player of all time outside of Roenick) in peak, prime, longevity. Toews only advantage is career

 

[Sasso09]

People who slander Toews do nothing but look at the numbers and feel they don't add up.

2010 was a monster year for Toews.
He won MVP for the Olympics as he was consistently the best player. But people only talk about the Crosby Golden Goal, even though Crosby was a very mediocre forward for the entire tournament.

Toews lead Team Canada in Scoring and was CLEARLY the best player from the first game.




Toews and Giroux faced each other that same year in the Stanley Cup Finals.
Both had ugly goal shares in that series (4 points for Giroux, 3A for Toews), but Toews walked away with the cup and the Conn Smyth.


You had to have watched the games to appreciate Toews.

Very poor argument. Toews was the 3rd best player on that team behind Kane and Keith. Giroux had a Hart trophy stolen by Hall

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

That's funny considering Giroux was just flat out better.


Giroux was robbed of a HART trophy and finished top 5 three times, he clears Toews ( my fav player of all time outside of Roenick) in peak, prime, longevity. Toews only advantage is career

Nah Toews was better. Giroux scored more points.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Peak and longevity both clearly Claude Giroux

Career is Toews because of team achievements


Distant 3rd, maybe even 4th. This is a two player race.


You're out of your mind. That Hawks team was a Dynasty if you take away Toews and add Giroux, Kopitar, Getzlaf, Backstrom. Toews certainly wasn't "the team". He was the best player on the team maybe 1 or 2 years his entire career.

??? Giroux peaked higher than:

-best player on stacked Canada roster + Gold medal
-best player in the playoffs, Conne Smythe + Cup
-Selke caliber player for 6 years, winning once
-1C on a 3x cup winning team

Why because he finished 3rd and 4th in Hart voting? Give me a break

 

[Sasso09]

Toews.

Most people just count stats, which doesn’t do him justice because he was a 200 foot beast.

At times, he was noticeably Canada’s best forward.

Giroux was also great defensively, as was Backstrom, who both were better offensively. And in Giroux's case he put up far better numbers without elite support in Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook etc.

The defense was closer than the offense between these two.

Claude Giroux is and has been THEE most underrated player of the last 15 years.

 

[Candyman]

Name 10 better players from 2010-2015

Crosby
Ovechkin
Giroux
Tavares
Stamkos
H. Sedin
St. Louis
Getzlaf
Perry
Malkin
Kane

Theres 11 without putting much thought into it.

We're talking about a guy that in 15 seasons managed to score more than 80 points 1 time... Bergeron (who i didn't even mention above) was way better defensively and put up basically the same offensive numbers.

I can't stand the guy, but Grioux is far and away the best player of the 2006 draft.

 

[GRob83]

Interesting poll and all good careers. Was surprised to see none of these guys ever had a 40 Goal season when I was comparing the numbers.