Best league outside NHL

[Czechboy]

Saw this on twitter. I've been saying AHL for years now and this affirms that but the rankings surprised me. Also cool to see how far off the WJC's are since I constantly read 'we should send Canada's JR team to the Olympics or Skodas'.

Not saying I agree with everything, just found it interesting. Eg. I thought Liiga would've been higher than Czech.

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[ORRFForever]

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

It’s the KHL.

 

[Kevinsane]

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I love the Canadian game, but please. When the MOP can’t crack a roster ANYWHERE in the NFL the CFL looks pretty bush.

 

[Scouter]

Here's some more food for thought:

Top 10 Best Ice Hockey Leagues

 

[Gold Standard]

Saw this on twitter. I've been saying AHL for years now and this affirms that but the rankings surprised me. Also cool to see how far off the WJC's are since I constantly read 'we should send Canada's JR team to the Olympics or Skodas'.

Not saying I agree with everything, just found it interesting. Eg. I thought Liiga would've been higher than Czech.

Pretty much an accurate assessment of where the leagues rank. In my humble, but expert opinion.

 

[Albatros]

Hard to say anything about a number without knowing the methods used.

 

[Caser]

Hard to say anything about a number without knowing the methods used.

I'd start with what does his "NHLz" coefficient actually means. He rightfully addressed the flaws of the NHLe coefficient that favors the lower scoring leagues like the KHL way too much, but doesn't really elaborate on this new parameter.

Also according to his graphs USHL in notably stronger than the WHL and I have quite some doubts about that:

 

[Hanji]

I have an Admirals season membership and the AHL is very physical yet very sloppy hockey compared to the elite European leagues. It's a quasi-development league, so a myriad of mistakes are the norm.
Not sold on it being the most difficult. Data is likely skewed in its favor as the AHL is stylistically the most similar to the NHL making the AHL-to-NHL transition the easiest.

And Czechia over Liiga? Yeah, no.

 

[Moose Head]

Here's some more food for thought:

Top 10 Best Ice Hockey Leagues

Just one problem with the list. If they are going to lump in all the NCAA conferences into one league, the CHL should be lumped in together as well.

 

[Czechboy]

I'd start with what does his "NHLz" coefficient actually means. He rightfully addressed the flaws of the NHLe coefficient that favors the lower scoring leagues like the KHL way too much, but doesn't really elaborate on this new parameter.

Also according to his graphs USHL in notably stronger than the WHL and I have quite some doubts about that:

 

[Czechboy]

I have an Admirals season membership and the AHL is very physical yet very sloppy hockey compared to the elite European leagues. It's a quasi-development league, so a myriad of mistakes are the norm.
Not sold on it being the most difficult. Data is likely skewed in its favor as the AHL is stylistically the most similar to the NHL making the AHL-to-NHL transition the easiest.

And Czechia over Liiga? Yeah, no.

Czech league had a bit of a bump with NT members coming back. This year has some strong players too (and Krejci in the New Year) as I am watching Ondrej Kase playing right now.

But, totally agree and it could even be argued that there are better Czechs in the Liiga than the Extraliga.

 

[Czechboy]

Here's some more food for thought:

Top 10 Best Ice Hockey Leagues

That list is even funnier to me. Czech league ahead of NLA? Our best Czechs not in the NHL are all in the AHL. Last year that included Jiricek, Blumel, Dostal and Kulich.

It's funny as the lists don't agree at all but both agree on Czech league.

 

[Czechboy]

I'd start with what does his "NHLz" coefficient actually means. He rightfully addressed the flaws of the NHLe coefficient that favors the lower scoring leagues like the KHL way too much, but doesn't really elaborate on this new parameter.

Also according to his graphs USHL in notably stronger than the WHL and I have quite some doubts about that:

51 USHL Players Selected in 2023 NHL Draft

The United States Hockey League (USHL) completed the 2023 NHL Draft with 51 players selected over the course of seven rounds the past two days.

ushl.com

WHL was 33.

FTR.. I'm not arguing one over the other. BUT, there is a definitely an argument. More guys drafted, more guys in NHL.

 

[theslatcher]

His follow-up explains his model, and you should be able to figure out why it's not the best judge of difficulty and why the AHL should easily be the top league for his model, yourself.

 

[Voodoozz]

I have an Admirals season membership and the AHL is very physical yet very sloppy hockey compared to the elite European leagues. It's a quasi-development league, so a myriad of mistakes are the norm.
Not sold on it being the most difficult. Data is likely skewed in its favor as the AHL is stylistically the most similar to the NHL making the AHL-to-NHL transition the easiest.

And Czechia over Liiga? Yeah, no.

Liiga and the Czech Extraliga have been pretty much on the same level for several years now. There are more drafted players from Liiga, which is not really relevant since most U18 Czech players leave for the CHL before the draft (most of them aren't good enough to play a substantial role in Extraliga and the Czech U20 isn't competitive enough). Liiga is a little faster overall, while Extraliga is more physical and defense-oriented, it's a very tough environment for young players. SHL and NL are the best european leagues at the moment (KHL is a specific case and is not easily comparable to the others).

 

[Caser]

51 USHL Players Selected in 2023 NHL Draft

The United States Hockey League (USHL) completed the 2023 NHL Draft with 51 players selected over the course of seven rounds the past two days.

ushl.com

WHL was 33.

FTR.. I'm not arguing one over the other. BUT, there is a definitely an argument. More guys drafted, more guys in NHL.

I must admit I'm following NA junior leagues much less nowadays, but something like couple of years ago USHL was considered weaker than any of the CHL leagues and WHL was considered the toughest of the CHL (so maybe less talented, but the most difficult one, particularly for an import player). However it might be that something has notably changed since then.

 

[Czechboy]

I must admit I'm following NA junior leagues much less nowadays, but something like couple of years ago USHL was considered weaker than any of the CHL leagues and WHL was considered the toughest of the CHL (so maybe less talented, but the most difficult one, particularly for an import player). However it might be that something has notably changed since then.

Not my thing either.lol I do notice that the NCAA and USHL supply a LOT of talent. Today, if a Czech goes to USHL or NCAA.. I'm ecstatic! It's a good road. USA, in general, has a great thing going on at the youth levels. There U18 and U20 teams are consistently stacked with 1st and 2nd rounders.

As an Oiler's fan.. we also draft Oil King's and they rarely pan out.lol Of course Bedard was in the WHL so that's not so bad!

 

[Caser]

Not my thing either.lol I do notice that the NCAA and USHL supply a LOT of talent. Today, if a Czech goes to USHL or NCAA.. I'm ecstatic! It's a good road. USA, in general, has a great thing going on at the youth levels. There U18 and U20 teams are consistently stacked with 1st and 2nd rounders.

As an Oiler's fan.. we also draft Oil King's and they rarely pan out.lol Of course Bedard was in the WHL so that's not so bad!

I'm also kind of a fan (or more like a sympathizer) of the NCAA development thing, but actually that is also another argument against the USHL strength/difficulty, as I noticed that the majority of those drafted kids will leave for the NCAA right after the draft, while in case of the WHL majority of them are staying for two more years there.

 

[Czechboy]

I'm also kind of a fan (or more like a sympathizer) of the NCAA development thing, but actually that is also another argument against the USHL strength/difficulty, as I noticed that the majority of those drafted kids will leave for the NCAA right after the draft, while in case of the WHL majority of them are staying for two more years there.

The Czechs really praise the NCAA system... lots of practice time, first class facility and less games.

Of course, US players that go that route sometimes refuse to play for Canadian teams and that is a problem.

Only thing I'm certain of is the the Czech U20 and U18 leagues are not good and need a massive revamp. We had a great Hlinka team and a lot of talent. Most of them left and are in the USHL or CHL right now. Easily half the team. That's not good at all. Nothing like an MHL or the second Swede league which also produces some great young players (alversken???).

 

[Caser]

The Czechs really praise the NCAA system... lots of practice time, first class facility and less games.

Of course, US players that go that route sometimes refuse to play for Canadian teams and that is a problem.

Only thing I'm certain of is the the Czech U20 and U18 leagues are not good and need a massive revamp. We had a great Hlinka team and a lot of talent. Most of them left and are in the USHL or CHL right now. Easily half the team. That's not good at all. Nothing like an MHL or the second Swede league which also produces some great young players (alversken???).

Yeah, a good domestic junior/development league is pretty important imo, as moving to another country at the young age is not for everyone. More of an issue for Russians than for Czech players, obviously, but still.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I'd start with what does his "NHLz" coefficient actually means. He rightfully addressed the flaws of the NHLe coefficient that favors the lower scoring leagues like the KHL way too much, but doesn't really elaborate on this new parameter.

Also according to his graphs USHL in notably stronger than the WHL and I have quite some doubts about that:

Ya, if using USHL then shouldn’t be using WHL as comparison, should use CHL.

 

[Caser]

Ya, if using USHL then shouldn’t be using WHL as comparison, should use CHL.

My thought was that even the WHL alone usually was considered noticeably stronger than the USHL, that's why that model seems kind of strange to me.

 

[Czechboy]

Yeah, a good domestic junior/development league is pretty important imo, as moving to another country at the young age is not for everyone. More of an issue for Russians than for Czech players, obviously, but still.

I remember, a million years ago, when Prague got the KHL team. I thought, at the time, that'd it be great if we had gotten an MHL (or is it VHL) team too. Tired of seeing all the Czechs leave.

 

[Caser]

I remember, a million years ago, when Prague got the KHL team. I thought, at the time, that'd it be great if we had gotten an MHL (or is it VHL) team too. Tired of seeing all the Czechs leave.

I'm not exactly sure if that would work without a proper integration with other local teams. Probably an interesting example here would be the struggles of the Dynamo Minsk team to do it, as they have the KHL team; no VHL team, but local league teams instead; then the MHL team mostly for U21 guys; then there are Belarus U18 and U17 teams who play in the local leagues - and despite all of that their talents still prefer to search for luck elsewhere lol.