hamzarocks
Registered User
Think he was 3rd in pts for the hawks in the 10, 13, 15 cups.
Super underrated piece on that team
Best change of scenery stories?
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Super underrated piece on that team
It was literally Steve Simmons
Again it was Steve Simmons, not the entire Toronto media
It was the fans of literally every single other team always telling us how Kessel sucks and is fat lazy 1 dimensional, too soft, he would never win anything.
But then switched their narrative up completely when he was traded.
Rodgerwilco
Entertainment boards w/ some Hockey mixed in.
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It was most than just Steve Simmons, man. Not everyone was quite as brash as Simmons or, but Kessel was pretty obviously not happy with the media in general there and being under the microscope that comes with playing in Toronto. You can look back at old articles written by more than just Simmons that were critical of Phil.
Plenty of fans in TO liked him, but he got a lot of flak too. Just happens in a high pressure market like Toronto.
Regardless of who specifically, he clearly wasn't happy with his treatment there and the change of scenery made a world of difference for him.
He was elite here and elite in Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh just had a significantly better team. Glad he won 2 cups there, had a legitimate case for a Conn Smythe as well.
I just strongly disagree with this idea that the Toronto media (most of it) was against him, also strongly disagree that change of scenery made him a better player. Obviously he won the 2 cups, but in terms of how good he was, it was the same in Toronto we just had a shit team.
frisco
Some people claim that there's a woman to blame...
Rene Robert was not given a real chance by the Leafs and Penguins and was looking at a middling career. Traded to the Sabres by Pittsburgh for Eddie Shack he became a point-per game player for Buffalo for the next eight seasons and one of the members of the French Connection.
My Best-Carey
My Best-Carey
Namestnikov has been a solid bottom 6 guy for the jets after his career was looking like it was in the gutter
Richard
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Both Alex Kovalev and Petr Nedved after their trade to the Penguins - ironically, they were traded for each other. Both developed their games in Pittsburgh playing behind Mario Lemieux and Jaromir Jagr.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
I can remember my narrative which was that you can't have your franchise player be a finesse winger and be a Cup contender.
This opinion was not really well-received in Toronto, as you can imagine.
Meanwhile, that kind of player is perfect on a team with two generational centres on it.
Rodgerwilco
Entertainment boards w/ some Hockey mixed in.
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Whether it was just him or the team in general, it was pretty apparent that he didn't like how the media interacted with the players and it really affected his attitude.
I don't think it particularly made him a better player, when I said it made a a world of difference in his attitude, general happiness, and the way he was perceived around the league.
Figgy44
A toast of purple gato for the memories
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Just to mention, Dubnyk was still bad when he was in Nashville (after the Oilers). His resurgence IIRC was due to goalie coach Sean Burke when he was a member of the Yotes (just prior to Minnesota).
I remember this one because Burke was a goalie coach I had hoped Calgary would try to quietly steal. Dubnyk's resurgence under him was part of the evidence that Burke was an elite goalie coach.
I guess it depends on what the OP means by washed up? Jeannot might be a better example of late bloomer than washed up?
Marchessault was on 3 NHL teams/lots of AHL time for 5 years and on a league minimum contract prior to being taken by VGK in the expansion draft.
Took a pill in Sbisa
2showToffoliIwascool
Surprised not to see Val Nichushkin's name here yet
Guy was pegged to be playing in Russia after scoring 10 goals in his final 168 games in Dallas (0-10-10 in his last season). That's a 5goals/82gp pace.
For the next 6 seasons in Colorado he's played at a 27.5goals/82gp pace.
Guy was pegged to be playing in Russia after scoring 10 goals in his final 168 games in Dallas (0-10-10 in his last season). That's a 5goals/82gp pace.
For the next 6 seasons in Colorado he's played at a 27.5goals/82gp pace.
Took a pill in Sbisa
2showToffoliIwascool
This might be the best case study of playing environments for goalies in modern day NHL.
When Dubynk was in Edmonton, he had a pretty poor defensive team in front of him. Meanwhile Minnesota had the #1 defensive environment in the NHL during Dubnyk's tenure. In fact it wasn't even close, it was silly how insulated their goalies were during this stretch.
Looking at goals saved above expected (min 30 games played).
10-11 - 13th/39 (EDM)
11-12 - 10th/42 (EDM)
12-13 - 3rd/22 (EDM)
*insert GM Craig McTavish's infamous offseason quote after being asked if Dubnyk was the Oilers starter: "If you have to ask the question, you already know the answer"*
13-14 - 38th/38 (EDM/NAS)
14-15 - 2nd (ARI/MIN)
15-16 - 27th/42 (MIN)
16-17 - 28th/41 (MIN)
17-18 - 30th/42 (MIN)
18-19 - 42nd/48 (MIN)
19-20 - 45th/45 (MIN)
He then played two more seasons on other teams with a combined 0.895SV% and was out of the league at age 35.
So what we're seeing was a goalie that was underrated in his time in Edmonton, had an awful season after getting publicly questioned by his GM and his name in trade rumours all year, followed by a season where he got hot, followed by playing below average on the best defensive team in the NHL. The reason why he was able to start so many games was because his game to game workload was less than every other starter and Minnesota practiced with a 3rd goalie.
I actually remember being on these boards during his tenure in Edmonton and the math guys were trying to explain this on HFOil, this was well before analytics were mainstreamed. Ironically when analytics started being validated, the Kevin Woodleys of the world used Dubnyk as the poster boy for a trade target not to acquire as his numbers would drop off on a new perspective team.
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Voight
#winning
Elias Lindholm when he was traded from Carolina to Calgary.
In four seasons with the Canes, his career high was 45 points.
His first year in Calgary he scores 78 points, followed by 54, 47 (56 GP), 82 and 64 points.
Of course playing with Gaudreau and Tkachuk helped, but he deserves some credit.
In four seasons with the Canes, his career high was 45 points.
His first year in Calgary he scores 78 points, followed by 54, 47 (56 GP), 82 and 64 points.
Of course playing with Gaudreau and Tkachuk helped, but he deserves some credit.
Not that he wouldn't be great in Chicago, but getting traded to Tampa probably changed Brandon Hagel's life.
Bonus: Pat Maroon went from fourth line scrapper with the Ducks and Oilers to winning three straight Cups
Oh, and Ben Bishop went from just a random goalie on the Senators to one of the best of the early 2010s with the Bolts, too.
Bonus: Pat Maroon went from fourth line scrapper with the Ducks and Oilers to winning three straight Cups
Oh, and Ben Bishop went from just a random goalie on the Senators to one of the best of the early 2010s with the Bolts, too.
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BLNY
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Ceremony
How I choose to feel is how I am
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Elliott is the worst Avalanche goalie I've ever seen. He signed for Saint Louis after a few games for Colorado.
Connor McConnor
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Devan Dubnyk was a 14th OA pick who got ran out of town from Edmonton even though the roster was trash and ended up coming 3rd and 5th for the Vezina.
Am I missing something? Where did you get those goal totals? I don't think he's ever scored 40 goals....for that matter, he hasn't scored 38 or 37 goals either.
I'd have to give this some more thought. The Sharp example, could simply be natural progression vs. total change in career due to change in scenery, but same could be said for a lot. When he was traded to CHI, he had 5 goals and 8 points in 22 games....not far off of the 9 goals and 23 points he scored in 50 games with CHI. The following full season he had 20 goals and 35 points....very small improvement and then took a big jump the following year.....to me, that's probably just a guy going from 24 to 25 to 26 and advancing his game.
Other examples are guys that just have a bad year and bounce back the next year, or guys that move to new place and are hot for a period of time but then settle back to their norm.
Going from being a 20+ minute a night defenseman into the husk of what he was when Buffalo cut him loose is a downfall. That Tampa was able to plug him in as their #6 for their playoff run isn't a renaissance so much as properly slotting him into what his abilities could handle. His use and performance last year in Minnesota is more akin to what the Thrashers/Jets thought they had when they paid him. What he was like in Tampa in 21-22 was the shitty player he had become in Buffalo.
One player who seemed to wake up after being traded and by his own admission started taking the game seriously was when Bertuzzi moved from the Islanders to Vancouver. It matured him a bit into taking his preparation seriously.
Simmons wasn't the only guy who was talking up Kessel as all the one-dimensional stuff. There was still the kerfuffle from the draft combine stuff detailed in "Future Greats and Heartbreaks" by Gare Joyce that had continued to dog Phil in Boston and then upon arriving in Toronto.
Simmons wasn't the only guy who was talking up Kessel as all the one-dimensional stuff. There was still the kerfuffle from the draft combine stuff detailed in "Future Greats and Heartbreaks" by Gare Joyce that had continued to dog Phil in Boston and then upon arriving in Toronto.
Mikael Granlund is a very recent example. Poorly deployed and in the midst of a divorce so never really contributed in Pittsburgh (5 points in 21 games). Was a cap dump in the EK65 trade and played at a near PPG pace for the Sharks (105 in 121). Recently traded to DAL and has played at a PPG pace this far.
shadow1
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There have been many success stories in Colorado.
Lehkonen and Nichushkin were already mentioned, but a lesser example is Burakovsky. ~65 point player with them, ~35-40 point player elsewhere.
Lehkonen and Nichushkin were already mentioned, but a lesser example is Burakovsky. ~65 point player with them, ~35-40 point player elsewhere.
| GP | G | A | P | PPG | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Washington | 328 | 62 | 83 | 145 | .44 |
| Colorado | 191 | 61 | 89 | 150 | .79 |
| Seattle | 152 | 25 | 51 | 76 | .50 |
There were a couple of players that became good when they came to Uniondale and played with John Taveras. P J Parenteau was a 9th round pick by Anaheim and bounced around, looking like a career AHL player3-6-9 in 27games with Chicago and the Rangers. But at age 27 he scored 53 and 67 points for the Islanders and played decently for a few more teams.
Matt Moulson, a 9th round pick by Pittsburgh in 2003,played a few games with the Kings but scored 30 goals three time in four years with the Islanders. He then became one of the worst free agent signings ever by Buffalo
Matt Moulson, a 9th round pick by Pittsburgh in 2003,played a few games with the Kings but scored 30 goals three time in four years with the Islanders. He then became one of the worst free agent signings ever by Buffalo
This entire thread could be dedicated to Mad Mike Milbury
Roberto Luongo
Olli Jokinen
Todd Bertuzzi
Zdeno Chara
Jason Spezza
Bryan Berard
Brian McCabe
Wade Redden
My Oilers had some horrible giveaways:
Miro Satan
Adam Graves
Canucks had some notable horribad ones:
Mike Peca
Cam Neely
But they also got Marcus Naslund from Pittsburgh, and Todd Bertuzzi from Mad Mike.
Roberto Luongo
Olli Jokinen
Todd Bertuzzi
Zdeno Chara
Jason Spezza
Bryan Berard
Brian McCabe
Wade Redden
My Oilers had some horrible giveaways:
Miro Satan
Adam Graves
Canucks had some notable horribad ones:
Mike Peca
Cam Neely
But they also got Marcus Naslund from Pittsburgh, and Todd Bertuzzi from Mad Mike.
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